Can we discuss NFL defense

[CowboyRoy]

It is an offensive driven league, but defenses still rule the game. There is a difference between good and bad defenses.

How many TD's did Mahomes have last year in the SB? How was the Bucs D last year in the SB?

You have to understand who you are talking to here.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Tampa Bay doesn't even make the playoffs, let alone win the Super Bowl, without Brady

And your point it what?

 

[Redline360]

I'm not sure why arguing with people who don't think a top defense is an integral part of winning championships when over the last 25 years indicate otherwise bar a few years here and there.
Just look at the past 10 years or so. Defense was damn near the most important parts of taking over the game. Having an elite quarterback isn't the end all. Like someone else stated the packers have had two of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game and have a trophy each

 

[Crown Royal]

There is a saying in the twitterverse lately that your Defense is as good as the teams you play, which I believe to be generally true. The Cowboys definitely benefitted from playing NFCE QBs and getting some nice turnovers in other scenarios. That said, I do think this is now a good (not great) defense, but I have no idea what it will be in 2022 when it resets. Diggs INTs reset to zero, Parson's sacks/pressures reset to zero. It's going to be hard to be better, especially losing quinn, gregory, kearse.

 

[kskboys]

Tampa Bay doesn't even make the playoffs, let alone win the Super Bowl, without Brady

And they don't win the super bowl w/o great D play.

Hey, I'm not the one attempting to say it's only one factor to make the super bowl.

Factors in being a super bowl contender:

1. QB. Doesn't have to be the best, but must be competent. Clutch is very important.
2. OL. Your QB is irrelevant if your OL doesn't hold up.
3. DL. You will get smacked around by playoff QB's if your DL doesn't pressure the QB.

And no matter how good your O is, at some point your D will have to make a stop. It's no accident that the passing yards leader has never won a super bowl. Balance is the key. Must have both.

 

[Starforever]

Tampa Bay doesn't even make the playoffs, let alone win the Super Bowl, without Brady

It can also be said that, Brady would not have made it without the defense. See how that works?

 

[75boyz]

And they don't win the super bowl w/o great D play.

Hey, I'm not the one attempting to say it's only one factor to make the super bowl.

Factors in being a super bowl contender:

1. QB. Doesn't have to be the best, but must be competent. Clutch is very important.
2. OL. Your QB is irrelevant if your OL doesn't hold up.
3. DL. You will get smacked around by playoff QB's if your DL doesn't pressure the QB.

And no matter how good your O is, at some point your D will have to make a stop. It's no accident that the passing yards leader has never won a super bowl. Balance is the key. Must have both.

Great post.

 

[McKDaddy]

Mahomes was totally taken off his game last year by the Bucs.

He was only taken off his game because his Oline was missing. If they aren't injured, they beat the Bucs even though the Bucs were playing good defense.

 

[McKDaddy]

And they don't win the super bowl w/o great D play.

Hey, I'm not the one attempting to say it's only one factor to make the super bowl.

Factors in being a super bowl contender:

1. QB. Doesn't have to be the best, but must be competent. Clutch is very important.
2. OL. Your QB is irrelevant if your OL doesn't hold up.
3. DL. You will get smacked around by playoff QB's if your DL doesn't pressure the QB.

And no matter how good your O is, at some point your D will have to make a stop. It's no accident that the passing yards leader has never won a super bowl. Balance is the key. Must have both.

I agree you have to have a good all around team. I do agree with Catch's overall sentiment though. The league has changed.
I don't believe you can "build" a dominant defense in today's game. You build a solid defense & hope they play their best when it matters most. But you know they aren't going to consistently shut down top offenses.
You can "build" a dominant offense. Rely on this to give you the advantage. Of course to have a dominant offense, you really need one of the elite QB's. You can get by with a little less but everything else on your team better be stronger.

 

[Diehardblues]

I agree you have to have a good all around team. I do agree with Catch's overall sentiment though. The league has changed.
I don't believe you can "build" a dominant defense in today's game. You build a solid defense & hope they play their best when it matters most. But you know they aren't going to consistently shut down top offenses.
You can "build" a dominant offense. Rely on this to give you the advantage. Of course to have a dominant offense, you really need one of the elite QB's. You can get by with a little less but everything else on your team better be stronger.

I think everyone would agree that having an Elite QB makes it easier but it’s not the catch all.

And why a couple of the most Elite will be sitting home this weekend.

We could argue that only one of the final 4 teams this weekend have an Elite QB.

 

[Diehardblues]

I agree you have to have a good all around team. I do agree with Catch's overall sentiment though. The league has changed.
I don't believe you can "build" a dominant defense in today's game. You build a solid defense & hope they play their best when it matters most. But you know they aren't going to consistently shut down top offenses.
You can "build" a dominant offense. Rely on this to give you the advantage. Of course to have a dominant offense, you really need one of the elite QB's. You can get by with a little less but everything else on your team better be stronger.

The key in Cap era with revolving rosters is drafting well . You must continue churning rosters due to Cap and the better you draft can maintain good teams with Rookie contracts.

You can build a good defense, you just can’t keep them together with Cap. Basically in Cap era the QB is only one who a franchise retains for duration of their career. The closer that QB is to Elite the easier it is to remain a contender.

And why the franchises with the most Elite stay consistent contenders most years. But it isn’t the end all to winning championships. While these Elite QB’s do stay strong contenders they are on more occasions than not stopped by defenses or they’d of played in more Super Bowls and won more championships.

The one exception was Brady and the Pats who often were complimented with top 10 caliber defense . When they didn’t have a top caliber defense is usually when they didn’t go as far. And they had arguably the greatest defensive coaching guru this era.

As Kskboys accurately stated earlier in this thread it’s still about balance. And you still need to be able to protect your QB and pressure theirs.

 

[DFWJC]

It can also be said that, Brady would not have made it without the defense. See how that works?

True.
No QB has ever won a SB without a ton of help
No exceptions

 

[kskboys]

I agree you have to have a good all around team. I do agree with Catch's overall sentiment though. The league has changed.
I don't believe you can "build" a dominant defense in today's game. You build a solid defense & hope they play their best when it matters most. But you know they aren't going to consistently shut down top offenses.
You can "build" a dominant offense. Rely on this to give you the advantage. Of course to have a dominant offense, you really need one of the elite QB's. You can get by with a little less but everything else on your team better be stronger.

And at the same time, invariably the team that wins the super bowl has a team that can make stops. Which means pressuring the opposing QB.

I agree you can't have a dominant D. So, you must have a pressuring D and a good last line of D w/ your S's. You must have strength, size, and agility up front so teams cannot simply run all over you.

 

[kskboys]

The key in Cap era with revolving rosters is drafting well . You must continue churning rosters due to Cap and the better you draft can maintain good teams with Rookie contracts.

You can build a good defense, you just can’t keep them together with Cap. Basically in Cap era the QB is only one who a franchise retains for duration of their career. The closer that QB is to Elite the easier it is to remain a contender.

And why the franchises with the most Elite stay consistent contenders most years. But it isn’t the end all to winning championships. While these Elite QB’s do stay strong contenders they are on more occasions than not stopped by defenses or they’d of played in more Super Bowls and won more championships.

The one exception was Brady and the Pats who often were complimented with top 10 caliber defense . When they didn’t have a top caliber defense is usually when they didn’t go as far. And they had arguably the greatest defensive coaching guru this era.

As Kskboys accurately stated earlier in this thread it’s still about balance. And you still need to be able to protect your QB and pressure theirs.

Ever notice where Belly spent his resources? O and D line.

 

[G2]

I’m saying there is a list of your NFL defenses. They aren’t any better or worse than us.

This sounds a lot like the PFF writer's theory that no NFL team has a great O-line that you plastered nonstop. If you can't identify a good defense from an average one, just stop.

 

[DFWJC]

Ever notice where Belly spent his resources? O and D line.

Absolutely

Brady spent it too, by leaving an extra 5-10 mil per year of cap space to used to help him
Did the same in Tampa too

He normally had a solid (not great but always solid) line and a top 10 defense.
Rarely have multiple great receivers or top 5 RBs

 

[khiladi]

There are always exceptions to the rule. The Legion of Boom doesn’t come around every year. If you have a franchise QB with an adequate defense you are most likely going to compete, let alone win, than if you have have a great defense and average QB.

Mahomes may have lost last year after their LT went out on Friday to injury, but he still carried his team to the SB and he carried his team to his fourth AFC conference championship in a row. Every year he’s been a starter in the NFL, it’s either conference game or SB.

 

[Portnoy1]

LOL still going with this notion our defense is really good.

I mean they were certainly better than they were under Nolan but with the season on the line, they couldn't stop the run and they couldn't consistenly rush the passer.

They only gave up 23 points. Thats enough for a team with the No. 1 offense to win. Also When they did force Jimmy G to make plays he turned the ball over.

 

[kskboys]

They only gave up 23 points. Thats enough for a team with the No. 1 offense to win. Also When they did force Jimmy G to make plays he turned the ball over.

To a crappy O team w/ a great D. That's not enough to win.

Plus, what you're not considering is that our O was dormant for 3 qtrs. Can't win like that. And we only got back in the game due to a crapptastic JimmyG throw anyway.

A run stopping D, and we beat SF. It's that simple.

 

[Portnoy1]

We lost because our offense stank.


The 9ers secondary is trash and Bosa and Warner were out of the game and our guys still couldn’t make plays.

That right there is all I really care about. I don't want to hear ANYTHING about the defense. The No. 1 offense only scores 17points. Blame anyone on offense/O staff you want but that's the only side of the ball that I want to blame. Can't no one on the side of the ball run from that trash performance they put out. NO ONE!