Can we reduce the Shotgun formation?

[Haimerej]

No he brought it back, it was used in the 40's and Landry brought it back to the NFL

I see that. Interesting. I had always heard he was the guy.

 

[Motorola]

How dare you take credit away from a Cowboys legend. Shame on you mister, even though your right.

It's like Mike McGill creating the move that made Tony Hawk famous. You don't give Mike the credit. You give Hawk the credit.

"The Man in the Hat"
--4-3 Defense
--Landry Shift
--Non-tradtional acquisition of talent = athletes outside of college football
--Dime Defense
Use of computers in the NFL (Shramm, Brandt)
--Flex Defense
--Multiple formations for a single offensive play

 

[Flamma]

I get that and think he has to do better but still in 3 years his offense has been #1 offense in the league 2 out of 3 years 2019 and 2021. I do think he has to do better about making adjustment over the course a game and the season as well but you don't end up #1 offense by luck or chance, he is doing something right.

Dallas was statistically the #1 offense, but they were not the best offense. Who you play matters. Consistency matters. Beating a garbage team 49-3, and then following that up by losing 19-9 is very telling. It tells you we're not a great offense. KC by no means has a great D. Cinci and Buffalo went through them like nothing.

 

[Doomsday101]

You got some footage from these so-called 40's showing them using the shotgun?

Landry invented the shotgun and zone coverage. I'm a Cowboys fan, so I'm going to put my Cowboys first every chance I get. Because it doesn't matter to me who was the first, I credit the person that made it popular.

Like I said Mike McGill is a nobody. I had to look him up to even know who he was. Tony Hawk is the man. Just like Landry.

I'm sorry he didn't
Shotgun formation - Wikipedia

 

[Doomsday101]

Dallas was statistically the #1 offense, but they were not the best offense. Who you play matters. Consistency matters. Beating a garbage team 49-3, and then following that up by losing 19-9 is very telling. It tells you we're not a great offense.

Yes and after 17 games Dallas offense rank 1st, believe it or not all other team play poor teams just as well. I think there are things he must do but fact is fact, his offense has ranked 1st 2 out of 3 years he has been the OC. That is just fact, you can spin it anyway you choose. I agree I do think he has to do a better job of adjusting but fact remains poor OC do not put up #1 ranking #2 out of his 1st 3 season. You guys want it both ways but if your QB sucks as bad as Dak and the OC is horrific then you are not smelling #1 ranking on offense. Fact is y'all are wrong on both accounts. Improvement needed yes but I would not throw away KM or Dak because of message board posters

 

[fivetwos]

Landry made the shotgun famous....it's called the spread now, because of the way the game has evolved..Landry called plays from the shotgun and his QB ran it...with the spread, the QB has the freedom to change the play, depending on what he sees from the defense.

Ahh ok. The Jethro thing threw me off.

Coach Landry is the reason I'm a Cowboys fan. How often does a kid pick a team based on its coach as opposed to a player? Probably not often.

I don't dislike the shotgun, nor do I wish to eliminate it, but I'd prefer to use it a little less, mostly because I'd prefer to run the ball a little more than we do overall.

 

[Flamma]

Yes and after 17 games Dallas offense rank 1st, believe it or not all other team play poor teams just as well. I think there are things he must do but fact is fact, his offense has ranked 1st 2 out of 3 years he has been the OC. That is just fact, you can spin it anyway you choose. I agree I do think he has to do a better job of adjusting but fact remains poor OC do not put up #1 ranking #2 out of his 1st 3 season. You guys want it both ways but if your QB sucks as bad as Dak and the OC is horrific then you are not smelling #1 ranking on offense. Fact is y'all are wrong on both accounts. Improvement needed yes but I would not throw away KM or Dak because of message board posters

I'm not blaming Dak. But our offense is not the best. No other way to put it. Ok, other teams don't beat the Falcons by 46 points, am I supposed to be happy? Dallas put up 80 - 90 points against teams playing backups. That's supposed to make me feel better because other teams didn't do that?

Dallas had some good games against good teams last season. But most of the stats came from playing trash teams or teams playing covid teams playing backups. Who cares if other teams didn't slaughter the covid teams like we did? Dallas offense was trash when confronted by the better teams down the stretch.

 

[fivetwos]

A QB can cash in with stats if they have a complete team around them and Matt Stafford prove that with the Rams. A productive QB can win a championship but they need a good team around them and solid coaching. I agree we do need a stronger running game but it’s still a passing league and you have to pass more than you run if you want to score enough points to win games. Running the ball repeatedly can keep your score down. Plus you need a real good defense that can keep opponents out of the endzone. Your defense is going to dictate what you have to do on offense. You have to be able to put enough points on the board and strike quick. All the rules are bent to favor the passing game. The NFL wants a lot of scoring. The rules have put defenses at a disadvantage and you have to take advantage of them.

Not as if any of that isn't true.

I would just prefer to run a little more overall, so the shotgun on first down makes me roll my eyes. That tells me (and most likely the defense) that it's either a pass or that one same old tired running play.

It's a fine formation for when it's clear that we need to pass anyway, but a pet peeve of mine is predictability, which I hoped left the building with Garrett and his dated scheme, but apparently isn't the case.

 

[nalam]

I'm not sure about you, but I'm a bit tired of the shotgun formation and how often we use it. It seems when in doubt, just use it and stay in it.

Does anyone think that being in a more traditional formation would help a back like Zeke be more effective?

I felt they may have put Dak in the shotgun formation so much because it helps him see what's coming at him.

I'm not sure KM is willing to give this up, being the so called boy genius I'm sure he can cook up something. Maybe this is where Mike steps in and says hey if I'm going out, I'm going out using my plays etc. Please give your thoughts

it will reduce automatically if we can establish a good running game, since our OL couldnt run block last season and our RB1 sucked er… injured , and dumb Moore like to pass , we had to play more shotgun.

Hopefully Tyler Smith can bring some nastiness and push the DTs and help the run game , if that happens the passes and the shotgun will come down. We will have a viable play action too.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

I'm not sure about you, but I'm a bit tired of the shotgun formation and how often we use it. It seems when in doubt, just use it and stay in it.

Does anyone think that being in a more traditional formation would help a back like Zeke be more effective?

I felt they may have put Dak in the shotgun formation so much because it helps him see what's coming at him.

I'm not sure KM is willing to give this up, being the so called boy genius I'm sure he can cook up something. Maybe this is where Mike steps in and says hey if I'm going out, I'm going out using my plays etc. Please give your thoughts

Another Dak flaw,one of many..........................by the way has anyone taught him how to throw the over the shoulder pass yet????

 

[RonnieT24]

The Cowboys have an ex QB who doesn't want to run the ball more than 10-15 times a game calling the plays. So there will absolutely no reduction in the use of shotgun as long as Moore is here. It's the main reason I keep saying that if they were going to transition to this style of offense they never should have signed Zeke. Jerry signed Zeke wanting to re-create the 90's .. Moore didn't get the memo.. What's done is done. Our only chance is for someone to hire him away.

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm not blaming Dak. But our offense is not the best. No other way to put it. Ok, other teams don't beat the Falcons by 46 points, am I supposed to be happy? Dallas put up 80 - 90 points against teams playing backups. That's supposed to make me feel better because other teams didn't do that?

Dallas had some good games against good teams last season. But most of the stats came from playing trash teams or teams playing covid teams playing backups. Who cares if other teams didn't slaughter the covid teams like we did? Dallas offense was trash when confronted by the better teams down the stretch.

No again I think there are adjustment to be made and he has to do a better job of making those adjustment but by and large this offense was good enough to rank 1st through a 17 game season and has done it 2 out of his 1st 3 years. Sorry I don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I don't think KM is as bad as some here think but I do agree he must make better adjustments.

 

[Flamma]

No again I think there are adjustment to be made and he has to do a better job of making those adjustment but by and large this offense was good enough to rank 1st through a 17 game season and has done it 2 out of his 1st 3 years. Sorry I don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I don't think KM is as bad as some here think but I do agree he must make better adjustments.

I don't disagree with your main point. I just don't think we should be bragging about our offense. I do not blame Dak, there is more to it than a QB. He's not a pitcher. There's a lot more to football than that. I really can't pinpoint our problem. Injuries? I don't know.

 

[KJJ]

Not as if any of that isn't true.

I would just prefer to run a little more overall, so the shotgun on first down makes me roll my eyes. That tells me (and most likely the defense) that it's either a pass or that one same old tired running play.

It's a fine formation for when it's clear that we need to pass anyway, but a pet peeve of mine is predictability, which I hoped left the building with Garrett and his dated scheme, but apparently isn't the case.

When you have a mobile QB the shotgun allows them an opportunity to use their legs and takeoff. The shotgun can benefit the passing and running game. There’s a good reason why every team utilizes the shotgun formation so much.

 

[OmerV]

We could go with the cap pistol formation.

 

[RonnieT24]

You got some footage from these so-called 40's showing them using the shotgun?

Landry invented the shotgun and zone coverage. I'm a Cowboys fan, so I'm going to put my Cowboys first every chance I get. Because it doesn't matter to me who was the first, I credit the person that made it popular.

Like I said Mike McGill is a nobody. I had to look him up to even know who he was. Tony Hawk is the man. Just like Landry.

I believe Coach Landry is credited with inventing the 4-3 defense not the zone defense but I know for a fact that Coach Landry himself stated that he "brought the shotgun back." He did not invent it. If you want footage go to Youtube and watch the 1946 NFL championship game between the Giants and the Bears.. The Bears with Sid Luckman were under center most of the game while the Giants were essentially a single wing team which featured the "tailback" in shotgun formation .. The Giants offense was basically snap the ball to the "tailback" and let him work.

 

[jaythecowboy]

Wilson & Cooper were the team’s two worst YAC receivers, & they’re both gone now. In their place are receivers who, at least in theory, will do a better job of stretching the field vertically, thus opening things up underneath for the likes of Lamb, Schultz, Pollard, & Elliott.

Get 'er done Moore!

I'm not sure where you got the idea that Cedric Wilson was a bad yac receiver. Wilson was 2nd ranked receiver after Lamb in terms of yac last season and actually had better yac/reception than Lamb.

 

[Ranching]

I believe Coach Landry is credited with inventing the 4-3 defense not the zone defense but I know for a fact that Coach Landry himself stated that he "brought the shotgun back." He did not invent it. If you want footage go to Youtube and watch the 1946 NFL championship game between the Giants and the Bears.. The Bears with Sid Luckman were under center most of the game while the Giants were essentially a single wing team which featured the "tailback" in shotgun formation .. The Giants offense was basically snap the ball to the "tailback" and let him work.

Not the 4-3....he invested the flex defense.

 

[MyFairLady]

Dak ain't breaking no passing records under center. Shot gun all the way baby.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't disagree with your main point. I just don't think we should be bragging about our offense. I do not blame Dak, there is more to it than a QB. He's not a pitcher. There's a lot more to football than that. I really can't pinpoint our problem. Injuries? I don't know.

Not bragging, but I think people get carried away. I think the main issue is failure to make adjustments on the part of KM. I think there are a lot of things he does that are good but he has to do a better job of countering what defense are doing. I do think weakness at Guard and Center has stymied the run game with guys penetrating the back field making contact with the RB in the back field killing running plays before they get started. I don't think KM is opposed to running the ball and did so early on but did not have a solution as the season progressed and defense were winning the battle up front. I do think Cowboys recognize the issue and have attempted to rectify it by getting Smith in the draft and putting him at guard.