Can't wait to see Jaylon Smith on the field

[waldoputty]

I would say it seems fairly reasonable to hope for Jaylon to be a decent starter so those results are encouraging. Now it just remains to be seen if his play style matches up to what people are envisioning. It's possible for him to be a decent starter but not be what people thought he would be, if that makes sense.

yes, but you better get that bullet-proof vest soon

 

[newera]

lol negative stars coming after stripped of stars

Haha, I'll accept whatever punishment deemed appropriate. What is crazy is that I am an eternal optimist and, if I'm being totally honest, pretty much a "homer" when it comes to this team. I am beyond excited at the potential of Jaylon Smith, and think that he could be one of the better linebackers in the league (especially at Will linebacker, where he would protected in this scheme). I just think it may take some time, and that playing the Mike will require an adjustment in regards to how he takes on blocks. He is capable of doing it, and maybe he has already started working on it, but it remains to be seen. And as I said before, maybe I'm completely wrong in my observations and this is all much ado about nothing.

 

[newera]

considering the fire and determination of Jaylon Smith= you seem to completely discount that.

How so?

 

[newera]

yes, but you better get that bullet-proof vest soon

Maybe, but I think I can find a common ground with most anyone on this subject. My views certainly aren't set in stone, and I really do have a very high opinion of Jaylon's overall game and especially his character. I just didn't want to set my expectations to a point where all I was doing was setting myself up for disappointment.

 

[waldoputty]

Maybe, but I think I can find a common ground with most anyone on this subject. My views certainly aren't set in stone, and I really do have a very high opinion of Jaylon's overall game and especially his character. I just didn't want to set my expectations to a point where all I was doing was setting myself up for disappointment.

i understand the approach.
surprise can only be of the good type (knock on wood).

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I am concerned that the year long wait/hype has possibly set expectations too high (absence makes the heart grow fonder). His athleticism and overall talent are obvious but there are parts of his game, not including anything injury related, that have me slightly concerned about playing him at mike linebacker.

First and foremost, he does not shed blocks well. Once a blocker gets their hands on him (even tight ends), he usually stays blocked until the ballcarrier is past him. Something that compounds this problem is that he has a tendency to sit back and read instead of attacking off of the snap. This allows time for blockers to get to him and you see him catching blocks rather than attacking, stacking, and shedding. What is interesting is that when he fires off of the ball at the snap, such as when he blitzes, he shows the ability to attack blockers and make the play at or behind the line of scrimmage (the center from USC can testify to this). When he is kept clean, he chases ballcarriers down and generally makes the tackle.

This brings me to my next point. From the games I watched, I didn't see a linebacker who squares up and explodes through ball carriers when he hits most of the time. He is more of a drag down tackler. Don't get me wrong, he usually gets the guy down when he gets there, but it's not generally the type of bone-jarring hit that stops a runner dead in his tracks (outside of the Texas game where made a few of these types of tackles). I don't think of this as a weakness necessarily, just something that I could see fans complaining about.

Finally, for all of the talent he possesses, he didn't really create many turnovers in college. In his three years at Notre Dame, he had 1 interception, forced 3 fumbles (one per year), and recovered 3 fumbles. I bring this up because the organization placed an emphasis on guys that make plays on the ball this offseason. He did have 10 passes defensed in his career though. This is an area that he may improve on, but it is something to consider.

Overall, I believe Dallas is getting a potentially great linebacker and I'm excited to see him play, but he has some things that he needs to work on (as most do) if he is to reach a level that matches the hype of many Cowboys fans. I have no doubts that teams will have a hard time running outside against he and Lee, but I worry about what might happen if teams try to run right at him up the middle. I believe that he will be very good in coverage right off of the bat (he seems to have excellent zone awareness in particular) and will be a real threat as a blitzer both up the middle and off of the edge. I just caution everyone to give him time to get back into the flow of the game and the time to work on/correct the potential flaws in his game that were present even before the injury.

I disagree with your take on smaller players. Jaylon just overpowers them. At the same time it is rare the player coming out that does take on OL well. This past year Foster sure as hell could not nor could Cunningham as OL regularly took him for rides. They year before Ragland was okay at it but Lee, Smith, and Jack weren't.

You definitely want a LB with his length to stack and shed better but if Hitchens can be taught to do it with his T Rex arms then I would think they are going to do the same for Jaylon. At the same time there is reality to dealing with guys who outweigh you by 60+ lbs. It's best to be like Sean Lee and just flank them.

And when they are running through the A or B gap, he will square and attack downhill. I just think you are docking him points because he can move so well laterally and downfield. He can overrun guys on the move while most people are trying to catch up. It's his range that makes him outstanding. Not sure how he is supposed to consistently square those guys. He still managed a FF every year.

What LB coming out was a turnover magnet like you see from DBs? None of the LB this year were. Jack appears to be the recent ceiling averaging a bit over a pick a year.

We don't have to beat an ideal. We just have to beat the guys lining up against us.

 

[CCBoy]

I disagree with your take on smaller players. Jaylon just overpowers them. At the same time it is rare the player coming out that does take on OL well. This past year Foster sure as hell could not nor could Cunningham as OL regularly took him for rides. They year before Ragland was okay at it but Lee, Smith, and Jack weren't.

You definitely want a LB with his length to stack and shed better but if Hitchens can be taught to do it with his T Rex arms then I would think they are going to do the same for Jaylon. At the same time there is reality to dealing with guys who outweigh you by 60+ lbs. It's best to be like Sean Lee and just flank them.

And when they are running through the A or B gap, he will square and attack downhill. I just think you are docking him points because he can move so well laterally and downfield. He can overrun guys on the move while most people are trying to catch up. It's his range that makes him outstanding. Not sure how he is supposed to consistently square those guys. He still managed a FF every year.

What LB coming out was a turnover magnet like you see from DBs? None of the LB this year were. Jack appears to be the recent ceiling averaging a bit over a pick a year.

We don't have to beat an ideal. We just have to beat the guys lining up against us.

Fuzzy, I'll tell you up front...this fan is really looking forward to watching this group of linebackers in camp.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fuzzy, I'll tell you up front...this fan is really looing forward to watching this group of linebackers in camp.

You and me both, brother.

 

[newera]

I disagree with your take on smaller players. Jaylon just overpowers them. At the same time it is rare the player coming out that does take on OL well. This past year Foster sure as hell could not nor could Cunningham as OL regularly took him for rides. They year before Ragland was okay at it but Lee, Smith, and Jack weren't.

You definitely want a LB with his length to stack and shed better but if Hitchens can be taught to do it with his T Rex arms then I would think they are going to do the same for Jaylon. At the same time there is reality to dealing with guys who outweigh you by 60+ lbs. It's best to be like Sean Lee and just flank them.

And when they are running through the A or B gap, he will square and attack downhill. I just think you are docking him points because he can move so well laterally and downfield. He can overrun guys on the move while most people are trying to catch up. It's his range that makes him outstanding. Not sure how he is supposed to consistently square those guys. He still managed a FF every year.

What LB coming out was a turnover magnet like you see from DBs? None of the LB this year were. Jack appears to be the recent ceiling averaging a bit over a pick a year.

We don't have to beat an ideal. We just have to beat the guys lining up against us.

Did I say anything about smaller players specifically? I said that when players get to him, including tight ends, (maybe I should've specified that I was referencing blockers in the run game) they usually stay on him, unless he's on a blitz. I agree with you that he can and will learn to engage blockers better ( and he seems to do a much better job when blitzing), my point was that he didn't do it well in college. As far as runs up the middle, I just felt like I saw him catching blocks too often rather than attacking downhill. Maybe it was part of the scheme to sit back, but it just seemed like he could've been more aggressive when meeting blockers.

As far as me docking him for moving well, I feel like I said the exact opposite. I said that when he runs free he usually gets there and usually gets the ballcarrier down. I just noticed that most of the time he would drag/spin the player down rather than knock them back when hit them. I said that this wasn't exactly a weakness, just a stylistic thing that some fans may find odd/not like.

Regarding turnovers, I didn't look up numbers for other linebackers coming out before I posted. I guess in my mind I was comparing him to other guys that were considered good coverage linebackers like Kuechly, Wagner, or Jack who all seemed to have more ints. After looking it up, it does seem that there aren't a lot of great turnover producers that come out from linebacker spot. His int number is lower than those three but, from what I could see, his overall production in the turnover department falls in line.

To your last point, I absolutely agree and I like your phrasing of it. The entire reason behind my initial post wasn't to give a full scouting report per se. It was more to say that he's not perfect so please try not to hold him to some ridiculously high standard because he has been hyped up all year. I'm excited to see him play and think he could grow into one of the best linebackers in the league, I just worry that many will rush to judgement and will be quick to label him a "bust" or "overrated" because he doesn't necessarily check all of the boxes for an ideal linebacker. Thanks for taking the time to respond

 

[CCBoy]

Did I say anything about smaller players specifically? I said that when players get to him, including tight ends, (maybe I should've specified that I was referencing blockers in the run game) they usually stay on him, unless he's on a blitz. I agree with you that he can and will learn to engage blockers better ( and he seems to do a much better job when blitzing), my point was that he didn't do it well in college. As far as runs up the middle, I just felt like I saw him catching blocks too often rather than attacking downhill. Maybe it was part of the scheme to sit back, but it just seemed like he could've been more aggressive when meeting blockers.

As far as me docking him for moving well, I feel like I said the exact opposite. I said that when he runs free he usually gets there and usually gets the ballcarrier down. I just noticed that most of the time he would drag/spin the player down rather than knock them back when hit them. I said that this wasn't exactly a weakness, just a stylistic thing that some fans may find odd/not like.

Regarding turnovers, I didn't look up numbers for other linebackers coming out before I posted. I guess in my mind I was comparing him to other guys that were considered good coverage linebackers like Kuechly, Wagner, or Jack who all seemed to have more ints. After looking it up, it does seem that there aren't a lot of great turnover producers that come out from linebacker spot. His int number is lower than those three but, from what I could see, his overall production in the turnover department falls in line.

To your last point, I absolutely agree and I like your phrasing of it. The entire reason behind my initial post wasn't to give a full scouting report per se. It was more to say that he's not perfect so please try not to hold him to some ridiculously high standard because he has been hyped up all year. I'm excited to see him play and think he could grow into one of the best linebackers in the league, I just worry that many will rush to judgement and will be quick to label him a "bust" or "overrated" because he doesn't necessarily check all of the boxes for an ideal linebacker. Thanks for taking the time to respond

Back in the day, I was a linebacker who lined up over an offensive tackle. When a tackle was firing off trying to drive block me, I would plant my helmet in the top of his before he was fully out of his stance. When he stood up as an angry bear, I was already by him and in the backfield.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Did I say anything about smaller players specifically? I said that when players get to him, including tight ends, (maybe I should've specified that I was referencing blockers in the run game) they usually stay on him, unless he's on a blitz. I agree with you that he can and will learn to engage blockers better ( and he seems to do a much better job when blitzing), my point was that he didn't do it well in college. As far as runs up the middle, I just felt like I saw him catching blocks too often rather than attacking downhill. Maybe it was part of the scheme to sit back, but it just seemed like he could've been more aggressive when meeting blockers.

As far as me docking him for moving well, I feel like I said the exact opposite. I said that when he runs free he usually gets there and usually gets the ballcarrier down. I just noticed that most of the time he would drag/spin the player down rather than knock them back when hit them. I said that this wasn't exactly a weakness, just a stylistic thing that some fans may find odd/not like.

Regarding turnovers, I didn't look up numbers for other linebackers coming out before I posted. I guess in my mind I was comparing him to other guys that were considered good coverage linebackers like Kuechly, Wagner, or Jack who all seemed to have more ints. After looking it up, it does seem that there aren't a lot of great turnover producers that come out from linebacker spot. His int number is lower than those three but, from what I could see, his overall production in the turnover department falls in line.

To your last point, I absolutely agree and I like your phrasing of it. The entire reason behind my initial post wasn't to give a full scouting report per se. It was more to say that he's not perfect so please try not to hold him to some ridiculously high standard because he has been hyped up all year. I'm excited to see him play and think he could grow into one of the best linebackers in the league, I just worry that many will rush to judgement and will be quick to label him a "bust" or "overrated" because he doesn't necessarily check all of the boxes for an ideal linebacker. Thanks for taking the time to respond

When I said smaller players I meant TE and RB who are smaller than OL. I'm not going to argue he was good at taking on blocks. I get what you are saying. At the same time you can count on one hand the number of behind the line LB who could run 4.5 or better and take on blocks. Most of the time, those types of pluggers are also plodders like Ragland. McClain ran in the 4.6s.

I have seen him square up attacking runs between the tackles. Out in space a lot of coaches teach their players to wrap and stand up carriers to allow the pursuit to get hits on them. I know for a fact that Marinelli teaches that so I expect more of teh same and and am happy for it. He is just most often first contact. Objectively that is never a bad thing to be around the ball.

As for expectations, Jaylon fits the scheme and was one of the best LB prospects to come out in the past decade. He is not the most physical run defender but he is no worse than any other prospect in that regard; meanwhile, his quickness and range are elite and he knows how to use them.

 

[newera]

When I said smaller players I meant TE and RB who are smaller than OL. I'm not going to argue he was good at taking on blocks. I get what you are saying. At the same time you can count on one hand the number of behind the line LB who could run 4.5 or better and take on blocks. Most of the time, those types of pluggers are also plodders like Ragland. McClain ran in the 4.6s.

I have seen him square up attacking runs between the tackles. Out in space a lot of coaches teach their players to wrap and stand up carriers to allow the pursuit to get hits on them. I know for a fact that Marinelli teaches that so I expect more of teh same and and am happy for it. He is just most often first contact. Objectively that is never a bad thing to be around the ball.

As for expectations, Jaylon fits the scheme and was one of the best LB prospects to come out in the past decade. He is not the most physical run defender but he is no worse than any other prospect in that regard; meanwhile, his quickness and range are elite and he knows how to use them.

All of this sounds good to me, and we seem to honestly have about the same assessment of his game. You are not one of the fans that I worry about when it comes to having unrealistic expectations. Thanks for the discussion and, as the title of the thread says, I can't wait to see him play!

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

All of this sounds good to me, and we seem to honestly have about the same assessment of his game. You are not one of the fans that I worry about when it comes to having unrealistic expectations. Thanks for the discussion and, as the title of the thread says, I can't wait to see him play!

It's all good. It is a good exercise to play devil's advocate and look for flaws to verify your examination.

 

[Bigdog]

If he gets back pre injury form, he might kill someone with that speed and instincts.

 

[Tristan]

Did someone say, "tropical medicine?"

Here! Here!

Edit: damn, wrong thread..

Thats nothing, you should see mine

 

[Maxmadden]

Top ten picks bust all the time. I have no clue as to how good he will be. I have refrained from posting in Nerve threads for quite some time because there hasn't been any real information and the speculation has just been extreme.

This is what I believe after hearing new information that is coming out..

Based on earlier information the nerve started firing late last year towards the end of the season. There was even some talk of him playing in the postseason though I would have been against it for obvious reasons. Nerves heal on their own timetable and it sounds like he is getting closer, and there is even talk about being close too 100 percent by the start of the season, so I think he will have a definite role.

Most first rounders are expected to start year one and he was supposed to be a top ten player. I don't know how good he will actually be but if he is even close to being 99 percent, the thing that has me most excited is that he will have been weight training for 2 off seasons, as well as watching film and going to team meetings.

I would expect him to be further along and have a greater impact than a normal first round draft pick.

 

[waldoputty]

Top ten picks bust all the time. I have no clue as to how good he will be. I have refrained from posting in Nerve threads for quite some time because there hasn't been any real information and the speculation has just been extreme.

This is what I believe after hearing new information that is coming out..

Based on earlier information the nerve started firing late last year towards the end of the season. There was even some talk of him playing in the postseason though I would have been against it for obvious reasons. Nerves heal on their own timetable and it sounds like he is getting closer, and there is even talk about being close too 100 percent by the start of the season, so I think he will have a definite role.

Most first rounders are expected to start year one and he was supposed to be a top ten player. I don't know how good he will actually be but if he is even close to being 99 percent, the thing that has me most excited is that he will have been weight training for 2 off seasons, as well as watching film and going to team meetings.

I would expect him to be further along and have a greater impact than a normal first round draft pick.

What?

 

[Bleu Star]

The J-Train is coming to a city near you real soon!!!

WOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Bleu Star]

Top ten picks bust all the time. I have no clue as to how good he will be. I have refrained from posting in Nerve threads for quite some time because there hasn't been any real information and the speculation has just been extreme.

This is what I believe after hearing new information that is coming out..

Based on earlier information the nerve started firing late last year towards the end of the season. There was even some talk of him playing in the postseason though I would have been against it for obvious reasons. Nerves heal on their own timetable and it sounds like he is getting closer, and there is even talk about being close too 100 percent by the start of the season, so I think he will have a definite role.

Most first rounders are expected to start year one and he was supposed to be a top ten player. I don't know how good he will actually be but if he is even close to being 99 percent, the thing that has me most excited is that he will have been weight training for 2 off seasons, as well as watching film and going to team meetings.

I would expect him to be further along and have a greater impact than a normal first round draft pick.

Wut?

Does not compute.

 

[Maxmadden]

Wut?

Does not compute.

What part?