Cap update 4/6/16

[AdamJT13]

Stay as tight to the cap limit as possible, and only create space if you need it. That's the best policy.

No, the best policy is to create as much space as possible and only use it if you need it.

 

[CowboyRoy]

There is no paying the piper........that is the myth...........the cap has gone up 32m in 3 years and is not going down anytime soon.....the long term TV deals are all signed........

We have been paying the piper for 3 or 4 years now. But whatever, we can agree to disagree.

 

[Hoofbite]

No, the best policy is to create as much space as possible and only use it if you need it.

Can't we just simplify this statement tom, create space only if you need it?

 

[Nightman]

Going from the Rule of 51 to including the entire roster doesn't necessarily use more cap space -- it could create cap room, depending on who gets cut and how many players have to go on IR. It's very unlikely that our 51 highest-paid players will all make the team.

I can see that. I generally try to guess what they are going to do and not what they should do.

To me they tend to by very conservative with their cuts. They value experience over cost savings imo.

They could cut a Church-4.75m or Wilcox-1.8m if they draft a SS but they like comp picks and keeping guys that will leave next year as FAs has it own value.

 

[Nightman]

Can't we just simplify this statement tom, create space only if you need it?

With rollover there is no difference except at some point you can't create as much space once the season starts.

It is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Injuries and trades can come out of nowhere. Plus they can always extend guys on the OL if they have a surplus.

 

[AdamJT13]

Can't we just simplify this statement tom, create space only if you need it?

There is no point in waiting to create cap room. And if you wait until you need it, it could be too late.

 

[Nightman]

Plus it helps in recruiting players to visit as FAs. Just like we write off guys for various reasons, players and agents will write off teams that don't appear to have cap room.

Why go through the whole process if DAL is just going to try and beat you down on price because they appear cap poor. We aren't a playoff destination like NE or SEA where guys might take less to win. Just go visit OAK or JAX or NYG that have a ton of space.

 

[Hoofbite]

There is no point in waiting to create cap room. And if you wait until you need it, it could be too late.

Not sure I see the point in creating cap room you don't need. Also, these restructuring moves are nearly always at the discretion of the team so time is not really a factor.

If you can make space whenever you want, there's no need to make it for the sake of making it.

Of course, the real "best policy" is to manage the cap in a manner that doesn't require sleight of hand to operate.

 

[Nightman]

Not sure I see the point in creating cap room you don't need. Also, these restructuring moves are nearly always at the discretion of the team so time is not really a factor.

If you can make space whenever you want, there's no need to make it for the sake of making it.

Of course, the real "best policy" is to manage the cap in a manner that doesn't require sleight of hand to operate.

The fact you call it sleight of hand means you refuse to believe anything anyone tells you.

You are always right and we are wrong. Good day.

 

[Hoofbite]

The fact you call it sleight of hand means you refuse to believe anything anyone tells you.

You are always right and we are wrong. Good day.

It is sleight of hand. And yes, you are wrong. Sorry, one side has has to be and unfortunately for you, it is you. If you weren't wrong you could point to the majority of the league opening up as much cap space as possible for no other reason than to do so.

I'll set the bar much lower than that and just ask for 1 team.

 

[AdamJT13]

Not sure I see the point in creating cap room you don't need. Also, these restructuring moves are nearly always at the discretion of the team so time is not really a factor.

If you can make space whenever you want, there's no need to make it for the sake of making it.

You can't create cap space instantaneously. It takes time because the player has to sign the contract. That could mean having to bring in the player from out of town to sign the deal.

There is no downside to creating cap space, and there is no advantage in waiting.

 

[Hoofbite]

You can't create cap space instantaneously. It takes time because the player has to sign the contract. That could mean having to bring in the player from out of town to sign the deal.

Fax?

There is no downside to creating cap space, and there is no advantage in waiting.

Is there an upside to creating space you won't use? Any disadvantage in waiting if you won't need?

 

[AdamJT13]

Fax?

I don't recall any NFL player signing a contract by fax.

Is there an upside to creating space you won't use? Any disadvantage in waiting if you won't need?

That's the thing -- you can't know ahead of time that you won't use it or won't need it, unless you just don't plan on trying to be competitive. So, yeah, if you don't want to improve the team, there's no point in having cap space. Or a team, frankly.

 

[Hoofbite]

I don't recall any NFL player signing a contract by fax.

Provided the means by which a team receives a signed contract are ever reported, would the use of a fax machine in an article about a player signing a contract be noteworthy enough to store away for a later date?

Elvis Dumervil had a fax mishap a couple years ago. End result was him signing in Baltimore rather than returning to Denver.

That's the thing -- you can't know ahead of time that you won't use it or won't need it, unless you just don't plan on trying to be competitive. So, yeah, if you don't want to improve the team, there's no point in having cap space. Or a team, frankly.

Sure you can. You know how much space you have, and you anticipate what you need. If you have more than you need, you're set. If you have less, you have some decisions to make. Doesn't make sense to say it can't be done when that's exactly what teams do.

 

[AdamJT13]

Sure you can. You know how much space you have, and you anticipate what you need. If you have more than you need, you're set. If you have less, you have some decisions to make. Doesn't make sense to say it can't be done when that's exactly what teams do.

Anticipating what you need isn't the same as knowing what you need or what you might need. Teams can and do get stuck without enough cap room, and that is a problem. Having more cap room than you end up using is not a problem at all.

 

[Cowboys22]

Creating cap space, aside from cutting players, almost always involves pushing cap dollars to future years so why would you ever just do that when the cap room isn't needed? You create the room you need and a little extra as a cushion that can be carried over to the next year.

 

[Hoofbite]

Anticipating what you need isn't the same as knowing what you need or what you might need. Teams can and do get stuck without enough cap room, and that is a problem. Having more cap room than you end up using is not a problem at all.

I just don't see the danger, I guess.

The only risk you might have is vastly underestimating a top free agent's market value, in which case you'll likely still be within that 72 hour negotiation period before pen can even touch paper. Plenty of time to assess your position and determine if you want to spend more than you thought you would need to.

Beyond that, there are a number of ways that teams can structure contracts to buy the necessary time. You could throw a roster bonus onto year 1 of the contract and create all the time you would ever need. Brock Osweiler had a roster bonus that went into effect 1 week after he signed the deal.

The concerns don't really seem to justify the practice. 1/3rd of the league already has more cap space then they know what to do with.

 

[AdamJT13]

I just don't see the danger, I guess.

The only risk you might have is vastly underestimating a top free agent's market value, in which case you'll likely still be within that 72 hour negotiation period before pen can even touch paper. Plenty of time to assess your position and determine if you want to spend more than you thought you would need to.

So cap space is needed only at the start of free agency?

Beyond that, there are a number of ways that teams can structure contracts to buy the necessary time. You could throw a roster bonus onto year 1 of the contract and create all the time you would ever need. Brock Osweiler had a roster bonus that went into effect 1 week after he signed the deal.

Roster bonuses are not prorated.

The concerns don't really seem to justify the practice. 1/3rd of the league already has more cap space then they know what to do with.

There is nothing to "justify." Teams with cap space have the ability to improve their team in any way necessary, whenever the possibility arises. Teams without cap space either can't improve their team or have to delay the possibility long enough to create cap space. Someone calls with a trade offer during the draft? Nope, not enough time to create the cap room needed. Want to add a veteran after final cuts? Sorry, he signed with another team while you were busy trying to create enough cap room.

Sorry, but there is just no advantage and no point in not creating cap room.

 

[Nightman]

Creating cap space, aside from cutting players, almost always involves pushing cap dollars to future years so why would you ever just do that when the cap room isn't needed? You create the room you need and a little extra as a cushion that can be carried over to the next year.

Because every dollar not used gets rolled over to the next season and the cap goes up every year.

It is like getting a 2nd pick this year for free and in 4 years you have to give up a 5th round pick.

If DAL restrucutres 20m in salary they will add 4m a season for the next 4 years. If they roll over the entire unused 16m that is a net gain of 12m in Year 2. If they roll it over again that is still an 8m gain in Year 3 and a 4m gain in Year 4.

By Year 5 the cap will have gone up by 30-50m dollars so even if they spent every dollar the present value of money makes is a net gain.

Not restructuring just means that you intentionally pay more than you have to when the cap is lower. It isn't a trick or gimmick. Restructuring is even better than a zero interest loan.

 

[Hoofbite]

So cap space is needed only at the start of free agency?

That's not what I said. I said the only real risk I saw was underestimating the value of a top free agent. I don't believe any team would be caught so far off guard with the price of 2nd or 3rd tier free agents that they couldn't sign them. More to the point, any team that can't afford a 2nd or 3rd tier free agent outright is undoubtedly near the bottom of the league in terms of available cap space, which is likely a result of poor cap management in the first place. Almost 3/4ths of the league could acquire any player signed after week 1 of free agency right now. How many restructured every contract possible to get there?

Roster bonuses are not prorated.

So cut down on the base salary to maintain your space. Minimum salary and roster bonus a week later. Even with a $20M signing bonus, the cap charge would be at absolute most $5M if you applied a minimum salary for the short term. Restructure as needed and a roster bonus of whatever size doesn't hurt.

Teams already have plenty of flexibility to make things work in the short term. You don't need to prepare for something under the guise of flexibility when you already possess all the flexibility you need to operate.

There is nothing to "justify." Teams with cap space have the ability to improve their team in any way necessary, whenever the possibility arises. Teams without cap space either can't improve their team or have to delay the possibility long enough to create cap space. Someone calls with a trade offer during the draft? Nope, not enough time to create the cap room needed. Want to add a veteran after final cuts? Sorry, he signed with another team while you were busy trying to create enough cap room.

Sorry, but there is just no advantage and no point in not creating cap room.

Then answer the question as to why there isn't a single team that frees as much space as possible every offseason.

Signing a player you traded for or getting snaked by another team when it comes to signing a player......these would be exceptions, at best. The majority of the league could accommodate either move right now and they didn't get there through restructuring. This is beside the fact that the league offices actually close and all contracts must be league approved. Cap calculations aren't made the minute a player signs a contract, not officially anyway. Do you think league officials answer their phone in the middle of the night to look over transactions and give the okay? Additionally, what do you think, "agreement in principle", means to the NFL? Do they start calculating cap numbers with an agreement in principle even though the contract hasn't officially been submitted to the league and numbers are not available?

You're building barriers that simply don't exist. Like a doomsday prepper, you may as well be safeguarding against a giant solar flare that knocks out all electronic capabilities.

What if the fax machines I never knew were used were suddenly unavailable due to a giant solar storm? Then what would a team do?