Capologists, yea right

[gjkoeppen]

Well, of course. I don't know if people here necessarily act like they've been actual GMs. Even though there are many takes on this board that I disagree with, I usually chalk it up to the point of view that other fans have, but we still have the best interests of the team in mind and different ways of expressing it. Sort of like how 2 different people seeing the same car accident may come away with different conclusions.

My argument for this thread is that we don't really know what the cap is going to do. If 2020 taught us anything, we have no clue what will happen next week much less next year. For one thing, if everything gets back to normal by the time the season starts up (and I can finally get back to furry conventions lol), the cap should recover. In fact, with the new tv deals, the cap should increase by quite a bit. However, I do think it would be wise for the team to be frugal with the cap money. I'm sure the FO is doing that. I've stated my approval for several of the recent signings. I think the FO is doing quite well actually. The real test now is going to be the draft.

Here's what those that think because of the new TV contracts that the cap will rise, maybe quite a bit, and everything is going to be dandy seem to not see or understand. If the cap jumps up by a lot so will the market value for all positions, especially for QB's. So having to pay higher salaries will take away those gains in the cap so being able to sign whoever they want won't happen. It's really not going to change most teams.
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[RustyBourneHorse]

Here's what those that think because of the new TV contracts that the cap will rise, maybe quite a bit, and everything is going to be dandy seem to not see or understand. If the cap jumps up by a lot so will the market value for all positions, especially for QB's. So having to pay higher salaries will take away those gains in the cap so being able to sign whoever they want won't happen. It's really not going to change most teams.
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For sure! Which is why a lot of players are taking 1 year deals this season.

 

[plasticman]

Free agency is a twisted form of gambling.

You hope that the veteran you just overpaid doesn't make his "sudden and rapid decline" the very next season. Or perhaps he drops in the first drive of the season with an injury that the announcers describe as "devastating" or "horrific". Now you have to start that disappointing, 3rd year former high draft pick that was the reason you signed that veteran in the first place.

Or maybe that veteran has no intentions of giving it everything he's got. Hey, he was 50-50 when it came to even playing this season until the Cowboys came calling. Now he has a chance to steal some of Jerry's money on his way out the door.

I mean, they are veterans. They know how the game is played and some of them might even be a little bitter, thinking they got played by a few GM's around the league. Now they can get their revenge on "the system" as the franchise executives slowly come to the realization that they wasted millions on his final tour.

That doesn't happen but I swear sometimes it almost feels like it does. How could Eddie George be a devastating runner for 8 consecutive seasons, at least 1200 total yards each season, only to become a limp doll as soon as an opponent touched him? It was sad. He actually made Ritchie Anderson look young.

And Mike Vanderjagt, the "most accurate kicker in the game today?" The Cowboys actually paid a skill position salary just to witness the complete implosion of a professional kicker's confidence.

There are so many others that got paid and decided to retire in the middle of a Cowboys season without informing anyone.

They all say the same thing at the press conference following their signing, but it's a toss of the coin when it comes to their actual value.

I say put the money on a known commodity, pay all your good guys, use the draft with a handful of eager, cheap rookie free agents and keep team cohesion.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

What's just as tiresome and annoying is how many fans here think they are real GM's and think they have all the answers.
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I don't think I have all the answers. I know I have all the answers. Annoyed yet?
Oz the only non-actual real GM on this forum.

 

[BotchedLobotomy]

Every year, month, week, day, and hour, you can find a huge amount of differing “facts” as to how much money each team has to spend in free agency. I’m tired of hearing all of these so called cap experts and “capologists”, act like they have a clue about how much each team can spend. I’m especially dumbfounded at Cowboys fans trying to use the cap as an excuse as to why the FO doesn’t spend more money to make this team better. As if 26 years of being a losing bottom five franchise isn’t enough, you have people here try to use the mythological cap hell as an excuse for the Jones boys and their side kick Slick Willy. If you want a player, any player, there is always a way to make room to get him. And there is always a way to get out of it when you decide it’s time. It comes down to if you care about winning, or you don’t care about losing. You see teams who supposedly had less money than the Cowboys go after top tier FA’s all the time. Don’t give me this crap about free agency not being important for winning teams. That’s a lie. Tell the Bucs that this year, or the Chiefs that last year when they each signed multiple big time free agents and eventually won the championship. Oh wait, the Eagles did the same thing a few years ago, and so did most of the teams that competed against the super bowl winners. Now you’re watching your favorite team be outspent by teams like the Giants and the Dolphins. Will they win the SB, we don’t know. But at least the owners give their fans hope or excitement. We debate this every year around this time in here. How many more years of losing while doing it this way until all of you just admit your wrong?

 

[Rockport]

Every year, month, week, day, and hour, you can find a huge amount of differing “facts” as to how much money each team has to spend in free agency. I’m tired of hearing all of these so called cap experts and “capologists”, act like they have a clue about how much each team can spend. I’m especially dumbfounded at Cowboys fans trying to use the cap as an excuse as to why the FO doesn’t spend more money to make this team better. As if 26 years of being a losing bottom five franchise isn’t enough, you have people here try to use the mythological cap hell as an excuse for the Jones boys and their side kick Slick Willy. If you want a player, any player, there is always a way to make room to get him. And there is always a way to get out of it when you decide it’s time. It comes down to if you care about winning, or you don’t care about losing. You see teams who supposedly had less money than the Cowboys go after top tier FA’s all the time. Don’t give me this crap about free agency not being important for winning teams. That’s a lie. Tell the Bucs that this year, or the Chiefs that last year when they each signed multiple big time free agents and eventually won the championship. Oh wait, the Eagles did the same thing a few years ago, and so did most of the teams that competed against the super bowl winners. Now you’re watching your favorite team be outspent by teams like the Giants and the Dolphins. Will they win the SB, we don’t know. But at least the owners give their fans hope or excitement. We debate this every year around this time in here. How many more years of losing while doing it this way until all of you just admit your wrong?

The Eagles are #32 in cap space being $5 mill over as we speak.

 

[Flamma]

Every year, month, week, day, and hour, you can find a huge amount of differing “facts” as to how much money each team has to spend in free agency. I’m tired of hearing all of these so called cap experts and “capologists”, act like they have a clue about how much each team can spend. I’m especially dumbfounded at Cowboys fans trying to use the cap as an excuse as to why the FO doesn’t spend more money to make this team better. As if 26 years of being a losing bottom five franchise isn’t enough, you have people here try to use the mythological cap hell as an excuse for the Jones boys and their side kick Slick Willy. If you want a player, any player, there is always a way to make room to get him. And there is always a way to get out of it when you decide it’s time. It comes down to if you care about winning, or you don’t care about losing. You see teams who supposedly had less money than the Cowboys go after top tier FA’s all the time. Don’t give me this crap about free agency not being important for winning teams. That’s a lie. Tell the Bucs that this year, or the Chiefs that last year when they each signed multiple big time free agents and eventually won the championship. Oh wait, the Eagles did the same thing a few years ago, and so did most of the teams that competed against the super bowl winners. Now you’re watching your favorite team be outspent by teams like the Giants and the Dolphins. Will they win the SB, we don’t know. But at least the owners give their fans hope or excitement. We debate this every year around this time in here. How many more years of losing while doing it this way until all of you just admit your wrong?

Wrong about what? Yeah teams can manipulate the cap, but the cap has an obvious impact. There are limits. If people are wrong, they're just miscalculating limits. The proof is in the product we've seen over the past 20 years. Minus a few exceptions, there are no more stacked teams. If you've watched the 70's, 80s, and most of the 90s you'd have seen multiple stacked teams in just about every season. Stacked teams getting beat by other stacked teams. The 2013 Seahawks would have been a menace to the league for half a decade had there been no cap. Maybe longer. Byron Jones would still be on the Cowboys. Jerry spent like a drunken sailor after Emmitt smacked him.

I firmly believe the Cowboys would have a stacked team if there was no cap. Jerry wants to win. He just doesn't do a good job in the cap era.

 

[jazzcat22]

To be fair, there's not much else to talk about besides mock drafts, cap, and what FAs we should get.

True in a way, but it is the same crap over and over, just mince the words around a bit.
95% of the threads are whining the same crap over and over. And the same people post the same crap over and over.

And if a positive thread, or even positive NEWS comes out. The usuals crap all over it with their generic crap. They offer nothing of substance. Pretty pathetic.

I been skipping over quite a few threads depending the thread title. And also trying not to read many posts, as soon as I see the person, I skip it most of the time, as I know they offer no incite.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Every year, month, week, day, and hour, you can find a huge amount of differing “facts” as to how much money each team has to spend in free agency. I’m tired of hearing all of these so called cap experts and “capologists”, act like they have a clue about how much each team can spend. I’m especially dumbfounded at Cowboys fans trying to use the cap as an excuse as to why the FO doesn’t spend more money to make this team better. As if 26 years of being a losing bottom five franchise isn’t enough, you have people here try to use the mythological cap hell as an excuse for the Jones boys and their side kick Slick Willy. If you want a player, any player, there is always a way to make room to get him. And there is always a way to get out of it when you decide it’s time. It comes down to if you care about winning, or you don’t care about losing. You see teams who supposedly had less money than the Cowboys go after top tier FA’s all the time. Don’t give me this crap about free agency not being important for winning teams. That’s a lie. Tell the Bucs that this year, or the Chiefs that last year when they each signed multiple big time free agents and eventually won the championship. Oh wait, the Eagles did the same thing a few years ago, and so did most of the teams that competed against the super bowl winners. Now you’re watching your favorite team be outspent by teams like the Giants and the Dolphins. Will they win the SB, we don’t know. But at least the owners give their fans hope or excitement. We debate this every year around this time in here. How many more years of losing while doing it this way until all of you just admit your wrong?

The problem with Jones is that he thinks he has a SB caliber team every year that just needs a little tweaking. There is always a reason, not the players fault, that just needs to be addressed and turds like Jaylon will suddenly be great.

 

[CowboyRoy]

True in a way, but it is the same crap over and over, just mince the words around a bit.
95% of the threads are whining the same crap over and over. And the same people post the same crap over and over.

And if a positive thread, or even positive NEWS comes out. The usuals crap all over it with their generic crap. They offer nothing of substance. Pretty pathetic.

I been skipping over quite a few threads depending the thread title. And also trying not to read many posts, as soon as I see the person, I skip it most of the time, as I know they offer no incite.

Yep........Dak haters have now become Cowboy haters because the 4 year contract has locked them into 4 more years of being dead wrong. Their biggest nightmare is for Dak and the Cowboys to start winning games so they pout. And knowing that the chances of making the playoffs are higher with a weak NFC east it creates much frustration.

They almost have to admit that we are going to make the playoffs and then cry that its only because of a weak division. AS if its some kind of curse.

Truly the most pathetic fans in existence. Even worse than the ones that would champion Garrett as a great coach and our savior.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Yeah but the Cowboys spend free agent dollars by giving our current players raises instead of bringing in additional talent to try and improve the team. The bargain free agents they sign are just to plug the holes with affordable JAGs which can’t or won’t be addressed by the draft.

Many fans have become overly concerned with the salary cap, as if they are now terrified of the Cowboys paying any player market value. They only want bargain deals and would rather have a great salary cap situation rather than the most talented team on game day. A great cap situation doesn’t really matter if you’re too afraid to spend it though.

Personally, I’d rather the team roll the dice for a few years trying to push for a deep playoff run and have a throw away year getting out of “cap hell” rather than waste a decade being frugal trying to sorely build through the draft. You can’t draft and develop talent fast enough that way.

If the Cowboys dont think the team is ready right now for a spending spree, then I agree with them. And they really dont have the cap space right now without really kicking the can down the road. With Zeke and Jaylon coming off the books at the end of 2021 and 2022, thats some nice cap space to make that final push. Last years draft was quality, we have a top 10 pick this year. If the next two drafts can help rebuild the defense this team will be as good as anyone.

Problem is, do they see it that way or are they just thinking they have a SB team now? Can they nail the next two drafts?

 

[tm1119]

I recall the mid 2000s when Jerry tried to buy his way to a championship. The regrettable thing is that we had had some very strong drafts and were in good shape, but then collapsed from cap overhang.

The cap is not an "excuse" for not buying every player you can, the cap is the fundamental competitive constraint in a capped league. Ignore it one year, and hamstring yourself for years thereafter.

With the new tv contracts, the cap will go up. I'd be in favor of timeshifting some of that cap to this year. But I'm not in favor of mortgaging the team for years with a spending spree in free agency this year. Big name free agents are generally the worst value in the league. That's not where you spend your money if you want to win.

What big free agent signings do you recall? Hint- they are non-existent. I don’t think you can point to a single free agent signing that has had any kind of significant negative impact on the franchise in 20+ years.

What you’re likely recalling is the string of terrible trades and contract extension for WR’s- Galloway & Keyshawn, Roy Williams, and to some extent TO (even tho he was very good for us). Those moves combined with bad drafting and not knowing when to walk away from our own players is what doomed the team. Had nothing to do with spending a reasonable amount of $ in free agency.

 

[gjkoeppen]

For sure! Which is why a lot of players are taking 1 year deals this season.

Even before the new TV contracts were announced they were signing 1 year deals because the players know there isn't much money this year and there probably be more next year.
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[Future]

I very rarely ever see this. We know the Cowboys have cap room. The words 'salary cap hell' are a distant memory.

Well there's the whole "you can't build a team with Dak's contract" narrative.

 

[Aviano90]

If the Cowboys dont think the team is ready right now for a spending spree, then I agree with them. And they really dont have the cap space right now without really kicking the can down the road. With Zeke and Jaylon coming off the books at the end of 2021 and 2022, thats some nice cap space to make that final push. Last years draft was quality, we have a top 10 pick this year. If the next two drafts can help rebuild the defense this team will be as good as anyone.

Problem is, do they see it that way or are they just thinking they have a SB team now? Can they nail the next two drafts?

I don't have a problem with this year not having a spending spree. I have a problem with a decade of not being in position to make a run using key free agent signings. They really screwed the pooch between 2017 - 2019 when Dak was on a 4th round rookie contract, IMO.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I don't have a problem with this year not having a spending spree. I have a problem with a decade of not being in position to make a run using key free agent signings. They really screwed the pooch between 2017 - 2019 when Dak was on a 4th round rookie contract, IMO.

Yep............they were so busy resigning turds like Zeke and Jaylon. Thats 27 million right there for a DT, safety, and CB. Zeke was the huge huge mistake.

 

[Future]

What big free agent signings do you recall? Hint- they are non-existent. I don’t think you can point to a single free agent signing that has had any kind of significant negative impact on the franchise in 20+ years.

What you’re likely recalling is the string of terrible trades and contract extension for WR’s- Galloway & Keyshawn, Roy Williams, and to some extent TO (even tho he was very good for us). Those moves combined with bad drafting and not knowing when to walk away from our own players is what doomed the team. Had nothing to do with spending a reasonable amount of $ in free agency.

Eh, if you look in the early/mid-2000s I think there are a bunch.

Ken Hamlin, Anthony Henry, La'Roi Glover, Jason Ferguson, Keyshawn, Bledsoe, Marco Rivera, Marcellus Wiley.

I think most weren't in the ballpark of "significant negative impact," but they definitely signed a lot of guys to top-of-market deals around that time and collectively I think it was problematic when they didn't work out.

 

[Creeper]

Every year, month, week, day, and hour, you can find a huge amount of differing “facts” as to how much money each team has to spend in free agency. I’m tired of hearing all of these so called cap experts and “capologists”, act like they have a clue about how much each team can spend. I’m especially dumbfounded at Cowboys fans trying to use the cap as an excuse as to why the FO doesn’t spend more money to make this team better. As if 26 years of being a losing bottom five franchise isn’t enough, you have people here try to use the mythological cap hell as an excuse for the Jones boys and their side kick Slick Willy. If you want a player, any player, there is always a way to make room to get him. And there is always a way to get out of it when you decide it’s time. It comes down to if you care about winning, or you don’t care about losing. You see teams who supposedly had less money than the Cowboys go after top tier FA’s all the time. Don’t give me this crap about free agency not being important for winning teams. That’s a lie. Tell the Bucs that this year, or the Chiefs that last year when they each signed multiple big time free agents and eventually won the championship. Oh wait, the Eagles did the same thing a few years ago, and so did most of the teams that competed against the super bowl winners. Now you’re watching your favorite team be outspent by teams like the Giants and the Dolphins. Will they win the SB, we don’t know. But at least the owners give their fans hope or excitement. We debate this every year around this time in here. How many more years of losing while doing it this way until all of you just admit your wrong?

You raise a lot of questions. First point, I don't think any of us believe the reason the Cowboys do not spend on free agency has anything to do with the cap room they have. As you say, teams can always create some room if there is a player they really want. Based on what players have signed for with other teams there is no doubt the Cowboys could have afforded to pay Dalvin Tomlinson, for example. They had the room after restructuring the 3 offensive linemen. They could have made more room by restructuring DLaw and Amari Cooper. I would have advised against it, but they could have if they really wanted to.

The fact is, regardless of the CAP room, the Cowboys had no interest in signing Dalvin Tomlinson or any other high priced free agent. They do not believe in signing top tier free agents because they think they are overpaid. The Cowboys front office, and by that I mean Jerry Jones, only believes in overpaying the Cowboys own free agents - and by overpaying, I mean giving them absurd amounts of money compared to their production.

As for the Giants and Dolphins, you have a point. The Giants were up against it going into the offseason, and yet they still managed to overpay Leonard Williams, a contract I think they will regret and sign Golladay. The Giants, right now, have about $2 million in CAP room which isn't enough to cover their rookie pool, so they will be cutting or restructuring some players. It is clear the Giants are betting on a big increase in the CAP in 2024. That's when their young QB is due for a new contract. But it would not surprise me if they do not re-sign Barkley in 2023.

 

[charron]

We do this almost every year, but let’s just look at TB this past year. Just off the TOMH, Brady, Gronk. Fournette, Suh, Brown, David, Barrett. Did I miss anyone? People say this every single season season then ignore it, because it “doesn’t matter”.?

Just for fun the Chiefs the year before. Honey Badger, Breeland, Okafor, our boy D-Will.

These teams don’t shop at the Dollar Tree. They go out and find big time keys that will get them to the top.

We spend big too. We just do it on extending our own free agents. We don't lack in the spending dept, but how we spend needs to be evaluated and who we spend it on.

 

[tm1119]

Eh, if you look in the early/mid-2000s I think there are a bunch.

Ken Hamlin, Anthony Henry, La'Roi Glover, Jason Ferguson, Keyshawn, Bledsoe, Marco Rivera, Marcellus Wiley.

I think most weren't in the ballpark of "significant negative impact," but they definitely signed a lot of guys to top-of-market deals around that time and collectively I think it was problematic when they didn't work out.

Ken Hamlin wasn’t great, but made a pro bowl as a cowboy and was a solid starter the next year. Earned his guaranteed $, which wasn’t a ton.

Do we have different memories of La’roi Glover? He was a very good as a Cowboy. Pro bowler every year.

Marco Rivera suffered a freak back injury running on a treadmill that ended his career. Not much you do about that.

Marcellus Wiley got paid like $5M by the Cowboys and was cut after 1 year.

Keyshawn was a straight up trade for Galloway at the time. Cowboys gave him a new (bad) deal right after the trade.

Henry, Ferguson, Bledsoe...sure not good contracts, but if we’re going back this far and that’s all we come up with- yeah I’d say the narrative that the team doesn’t sign free agents because Jerry has been burned in the past just isn’t true.