Carp vs Lawson? Did we goof again?

[CrazyCowboy]

Manny Lawson, the second first-round pick, started and had six solo tackles.
:bang2:

 

[theogt]

Lawson wouldn't have started here. Don't know if he would have dressed or not.

 

[Kangaroo]

How does one game make or break a draft

 

[superpunk]

Holy ****! 6 solo tackles! And Carp was inactive?

I cannot stand the impending doom.

When was the first time we goofed? (Please god, do not let him say Merriman..... I will bring down a mighty reckoning...)

 

[canters]

The niners are a bad team and Carp would have dressed for them. Too early to tell if Lawson was the better pick or not. As far as opinions go, having seen Lawson play, he will be a more disruptive player and better pash rusher than Carp. Time will tell.

 

[dbair1967]

Manny Lawson, the second first-round pick, started and had six solo tackles.
:bang2:

David

 

[austintodallas]

Didn't we have two massive threads to this effect yesterday? Was another one really necessary?

 

[ultra5]

Manny Lawson, the second first-round pick, started and had six solo tackles.
:bang2:

Yep. We goofed big time.

Considering MATT freakin LEINART was there at 10 i'd say we goofed. We just let another Carson Palmer get away. :bang2: :bang2: :bang2:

 

[davey999]

Manny Lawson, the second first-round pick, started and had six solo tackles.
:bang2:

Yes. We did.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Manny Lawson, the second first-round pick, started and had six solo tackles.
:bang2:

Lawson is a Ware type player. You don't want a Ware type player on both sides of the line. Carpenter is bigger and better suited to stop the run.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Yep. We goofed big time.

Considering MATT freakin LEINART was there at 10 i'd say we goofed. We just let another Carson Palmer get away. :bang2: :bang2: :bang2:

Matt Leinart is another Chad Pennington. Smart but has a weak arm.

 

[THUMPER]

Yep. We goofed big time.

Considering MATT freakin LEINART was there at 10 i'd say we goofed. We just let another Carson Palmer get away. :bang2: :bang2: :bang2:

I was praying we would trade up for Leinart if he slipped to the Cards. When he did I couldn't believe our luck but then of course we didn't make a deal and so I figured we would take Lawson when our turn came around, but NO, we go with Carpenter instead. Then I figured we would take an OL in the 2nd and we went with a TE instead. The first two rounds were very disappointing to me.

I like Fasano and think he will prove to be a good player for us but TEs are relatively easy to find later in the draft but you can never have enough quality OLs or pass-rushing specialists.

A question was asked on a forum a few years ago when the Texans were an expansion team: "If you could have any 5 players in the league to start an expansion team with, who would they be". My answer was the best 5 OLs at their positions. It ALL starts up front and having a solid O-Line is the most important thing to have if you want to win games. A Great O-Line will win championships!

IMO the priorities should be in the following order: OL, QB, DE, CB, DT, RB, LB, WR, S, TE, K, P.

 

[ravidubey]

Lawson is a Ware type player. You don't want a Ware type player on both sides of the line. Carpenter is bigger and better suited to stop the run.

And cover and rush the passer, too. It's mental with him right now, hopefully he'll be able to bridge the gap but it might take him a couple of years. But hey, how about that Kevin Burnett? I had all but dismissed him as a bust, and he's really come through-- please let him stay healthy.

 

[dbair1967]

A question was asked on a forum a few years ago when the Texans were an expansion team: "If you could have any 5 players in the league to start an expansion team with, who would they be". My answer was the best 5 OLs at their positions. It ALL starts up front and having a solid O-Line is the most important thing to have if you want to win games. A Great O-Line will win championships!

IMO the priorities should be in the following order: OL, QB, DE, CB, DT, RB, LB, WR, S, TE, K, P.

even though the Cowboys and Patriots won 6 of the last 14 Super Bowls with a philopshy nothing like that

having a good OL coach is more important than having pure talent on the OL, you can win in this league with average OL who are technically sound

David

 

[superpunk]

A Great O-Line will win championships!

It's a great ingredient to have, but hardly the be-all end-all. There are plenty of other ways to go about it, as evidenced by recent Super Bowl Champions. Look at the really great Olines of our time. Kansas City, Seattle, Denver, no championships for any of them, although Seattle came close last year. I don't think anyone would call Pitt's Oline great, although they are good at what they do. New England? Won with savvy QB play and amazing defense. The Bucs? Hardly a distinguished Oline. Maybe the last team that had anything approaching a great Oline to win a championship was the Rams.

Well-rounded teams win championships. If you're not well-rounded, then you have to be AMAZING on one side of the ball. Our defense has the talent to be amazing, and the offense has the talent to definitely be more than solid.


It's just the pesky process of actually doing it, that's the problem.

 

[YosemiteSam]

It's a great ingredient to have, but hardly the be-all end-all. There are plenty of other ways to go about it, as evidenced by recent Super Bowl Champions. Look at the really great Olines of our time. Kansas City, Seattle, Denver, no championships for any of them, although Seattle came close last year. I don't think anyone would call Pitt's Oline great, although they are good at what they do. New England? Won with savvy QB play and amazing defense. The Bucs? Hardly a distinguished Oline. Maybe the last team that had anything approaching a great Oline to win a championship was the Rams.

I disagree. Pittsburgh's offensive line is actually pretty good. They wouldn't be such a great rushing team if they weren't. You don't have to have the best offensive line in the game, but there is zero doubt that you do have to have a good one. Without a good offensive line your offensive will stink. (Oakland on Monday night, the Texans since their inception, Cowboys last year, etc)

There were several great players drafted last year. The team that I think had the best draft? The Jets just for the fact that their offensive line sucked and Mangini decided above all to fix it from the get go by drafting D'Brickashaw Ferguson, and Nick Mangold. The Jets will start getting better now.

 

[superpunk]

I disagree. Pittsburgh's offensive line is actually pretty good. They wouldn't be such a great rushing team if they weren't. You don't have to have the best offensive line in the game, but there is zero doubt that you do have to have a good one. Without a good offensive line your offensive will stink. (Oakland on Monday night, the Texans since their inception, Cowboys last year, etc)

The Steelers line is "good" - as you attest. I said the exact same thing. They are not a "great" line. They have a purpose, and they can get their purpose accomplished. They are not dominating, like the "great" lines I mentioned.

There were several great players drafted last year. The team that I think had the best draft? The Jets just for the fact that their offensive line sucked and Mangini decided above all to fix it from the get go by drafting D'Brickashaw Ferguson, and Nick Mangold. The Jets will start getting better now.

They might. Or, their highly touted picks might not ever get it. The Oline, perhaps more than any other position, is a crapshoot. First rounders fail all the time. Who was more of a sure thing than Gallery? He hasn't been anything in Oakland. We'll have to see.

 

[YosemiteSam]

They might. Or, their highly touted picks might not ever get it. The Oline, perhaps more than any other position, is a crapshoot. First rounders fail all the time. Who was more of a sure thing than Gallery? He hasn't been anything in Oakland. We'll have to see.

True, but I think Ferguson is one of those freaks of nature. Vernon Davis, Reggie Bush type players at his position. When you look back, this draft was stacked deep with players in that since. (at least compared to other years.)

 

[superpunk]

True, but I think Ferguson is one of those freaks of nature. Vernon Davis, Reggie Bush type players at his position. When you look back, this draft was stacked deep with players in that since. (at least compared to other years.)

Then again, he had that knee-problem....

The league is full of Oline success stories, with guys who were undrafted, late-rounders, etc. Looking at the draft position of players from KC, they were almost all late rounders. Didn't we release Brian Waters as a TE?

I agree with David. Firing Houck was stupid. Whatever we're doing now, is having a hard time owrking. Alot of times, it doesn't seem like there is any common goal, everyone's just trying to dominate their man. That rarely works.

In any case, Parcells has proved he doesn't need geat Oline play, at least in the run game. Just effectiveness. That's how Pitt got it done, and I think that's gonna be our MO.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Superpunk,

Now that Roaf gone do you think Larry Johnson will hit 1,700 yards this season? Everyone claims that he didn't start all 16 games (though he played on all 16) and could have had over 2,000 yards, but he rushed about as much as everyone else did. (336 attempts to Tiki's 356)

So, with Roaf gone, does he see 1,700 yards again this season? Or does him come back down to earth a bit?

My take is, he could see 1,700 yards again, he just won't get it at 5.2 yards per carry again. Roaf will be missed and Will Shields is in his 14th season. Something has to give.