Charger Steve Foley shot by police officer

[tomson75]

Chargers' Foley shot by off-duty cop

By Sandra Dibble
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
September 4, 2006
Chargers linebacker Steve Foley underwent surgery for gunshot wounds yesterday after being shot by an off-duty police officer outside his Poway home.

​

Steve Foley
The 3:41 a.m. shooting occurred after the Coronado officer followed Foley's car for about 10 miles, according to the San Diego County Sheriff's Department. The officer suspected a drunken driver when he spotted Foley's vehicle weaving in and out of lanes of northbound traffic on state Route 163, nearly colliding with several other cars, investigators said.
Foley, 30, was shot standing near his car, said sheriff's homicide Lt. Dennis Brugos. He more than once had refused the officer's order to pull over, Brugos said.
The officer, whose name was not released, was driving an unmarked car and was not in uniform. The officer told investigators he fired his weapon several times at Foley after the athlete stepped out of his vehicle on the quiet, upscale cul-de-sac of Travertine Court, and reached into his pants.
It was not clear whether Foley was armed, Brugos said.
Chargers coach Marty Schottenheimer said Foley's injuries were not life-threatening. Schottenheimer said he did not know whether Foley would miss any time on the playing field as a result.

Advertisement “The only thing we're thinking about is to make sure he is well,” Schottenheimer said. “Beyond that, it's not appropriate in my view to comment.”
On Saturday evening, hours before the incident, Foley had attended the Chargers' rookie dinner, where new players treat veterans to a lavish meal.
Police said Foley was taken to Sharp Memorial Hospital. A city of San Diego dispatcher confirmed an ambulance sent to Travertine Court at 3:47 a.m. took a patient to Sharp Memorial Hospital in Kearny Mesa. A hospital spokeswoman, Kathy Gambito, said she had no information on a patient with Foley's name.
Foley's agent, David Levine, said Foley underwent surgery at noon.
It is unknown whether any charges will be filed against Foley. His female companion, Lisa Maree Gaut, 25, was booked into Las Colinas jail yesterday afternoon on suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon and driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol, according to the Sheriff's Department. A court hearing for Gaut is set for Thursday afternoon in El Cajon.
Foley signed with the Chargers as a free agent before the 2004 season, starting 13 games last season and missing three games with an abdominal injury. He tied for third on the team with 4½ sacks.
“He's been a great asset to this team, whether it's how he plays or how he livens up the locker room and how he leads,” said cornerback Quentin Jammer. “Foley is a genuine good guy. That's how he is all the time.”
Homicide detectives have taken over the investigation, because the shooting involves a police officer. The officer is on administrative leave, according to the Sheriff's Department, a standard procedure in such shootings.
The Coronado Police Department referred questions to the Sheriff's Department.
Foley has had previous run-ins with law enforcement. Last week, the San Diego County District Attorney's Office said it would not pursue charges against Foley for an incident in April. He was accused of resisting arrest, battery on a police officer and being drunk in public after an altercation on a University City street about 1:30 a.m. April 21.
After several incidents in Cincinnati in 1999 and 2000, where he played for the Bengals, Foley was enrolled in an NFL alcohol program.
According to the initial report from the Sheriff's Department, yesterday's incident started about 3:30 a.m. when the Coronado officer said he noticed Foley's car weaving on state Route 163 near state Route 52, traveling at speeds ranging from 30 mph to 90 mph.
The officer followed Foley's car as it exited Interstate 15 at Pomerado Road, the report said. Officials said the officer radioed other law enforcement agencies about his actions. When Foley stopped at a red light, the officer said he pulled his car alongside Foley's, identified himself as a police officer, and ordered him to pull over. Foley continued driving, investigators said.
After a short distance, Foley's car stopped again. Foley got out of the vehicle and approached the officer, who had stopped his vehicle behind Foley's. The officer identified himself again and pulled out his handgun, according to the report.
Foley kept approaching and said, “that's a BB gun,” the officer told investigators.
Foley then walked back to his car and drove away. Foley stopped again at the corner of Treadwell Drive and Travertine Court, near his house. The officer backed up his car and then stepped out at the end of the cul-de-sac, according to the report. Foley, who is 6-foot-4 and weighs 265 pounds, walked toward him with his female companion, Gaut, now at the wheel of Foley's customized Oldsmobile Cutlass.
The officer repeated that he was a police officer, and that the gun was real, according to the report. The officer then fired into some bushes as a warning. Gaut then drove the car quickly in the officer's direction, prompting him to fire two times at the vehicle, the report said. That's when Foley reached into his pants with his right hand, investigators said, and continued to approach the officer. The officer fired his gun.
“The suspect acknowledged that he had been shot, but continued toward the officer,” the sheriff's report said.
The officer fired again, the report said, and Foley fell to the ground.
The law allows – but does not require – off-duty police officers to make arrests when they witness suspected misdemeanor crimes, including drunken driving, said Paul Pfingst, the former San Diego County district attorney now in private practice.
“If a person resists arrest, (the officer) has no duty to retreat, if they use deadly force against him, he has the right to defend himself,” said Pfingst, who also served on the San Diego Police Department's review board scrutinizing police shootings and misconduct accusations.
What may become an issue in this case is how the Coronado officer identified himself and whether Foley believed he was legitimate, Pfingst said.
“There's an (identification) question going on there,” he said. “Usually if someone has a badge and a gun and displays it in a clear manner, people don't think they're having a BB gun. The question is whether a badge was displayed. And when it was displayed, was it displayed in a manner that could be seen.”
Several hours after the shooting yesterday, investigators remained on the scene, cordoning off the small cul-de-sac where the shooting occurred. Foley's car stood in the middle, the passenger door ajar.
Property records show Foley purchased a four-bedroom, 2,965-square-foot residence on Travertine Court for $1.39 million in July 2005.
Neighbors in the Rolling Hills Estates development described Foley as a friendly, pleasant neighbor.
“He was real personable, every time he went by he would wave,” said Kent Goodman, who lives nearby. Foley took time to chat with Goodman's son, who plays football in a Pop Warner League, Goodman said.

So, Mr. Cowboy, can you explain to me where, after reading this, this police officers actions were innapropriate? Could it be that this boils down to the fact that this officer felt the need to take action where you would not? The evicence thus far has shown no wrong doing by the officer. Miami Vice? Wow. They let you carry a gun?

 

[Mr Cowboy]

Yes, in waiting for back up. I treasure my safety and well being above all. Furthermore, he is out of his jurisdiction. You have to respect that, and ask for thsi jusridiction for permission and assistance.

Furhtermore, this is the officer's side of the story you are reading. If he did call in, where was the backup? Was the car actually weaving and speeding? Let's wait to see who the driver actually was, and if Foley was actually drinking.

One last thing, carrying a gun means nothing. That in itself gets more officers in trouble than anything else. It gives them a false sense of security, makes them feel invincible. Most officers that die in shootings are shot with their own guns.

Bottom line, I would have handled it a whole different way, and I know for a fact that 99% of officers would have done the same. The job is hard enough without putting yourself in bad situations uneccessairly. This whole mess could, and should have been avoided if handled properly.Calling for backup, and waiting for it would have taken a minute or two longer. When was the last time you responded to a call wehre there wasn't at least a back up unit responding to your location?

I'm not even taken into account the suspect and his actions........I am critizising the officer's actions.

 

[tomson75]

For those of you who know it all about law enforcement, re-read my posts. I said that he should have followed cloesly behind and call the authority with jusirdictiion.

You can say all you want about your duty, ethics and watch all the Starsky and Hutch and Miami Vice you want, that is not reality. The number one rule of a LEO officer is SAFETY. You don't forsake safety for anything, especially off duty. Even undercover and unmarked units don't make traffic stops, if at all possible. That is what marked units are for.

Yeah I took an oath, and so do all cops, and that oath doesn't say that you are on duty 24 X 7 X 365. It is stupid to think that a LEO is entitled to be on-duty at all times.

IMO, this officer made a big mistake in taking matters into his own hands. This whole shooting incident could have been avoided if he had acted properly. With SAfety in mind, he should have waited for backup before escalating the situation. What was he gonna do with the suspect if the had not resisted, throw him in the back of his car and take him to the nearest police station? What police station should he take him too?

Furthermore, if I am in a convinience store, and a robbery ensues, of course I would take action. But I have been on the road where I spotted a suspicous drunk driver and called the local authorities, and followed the vehicle until the PD was in position to make a stop. I have on several occassions assisted PD's who have had problems with suspects, during a traffic stops.

Once again, let me point out that i do not believe that it is required for civil servants, law enforcement officers, lifequards, and the like, to perform their chosen profession's duties outside of work. However, that being said (again), at some point a situation presents itself and your ability to perform these particular duties presents you with a judgement call. A lifeguard at a backyard BBQ has the option to rescue a person struggling in a pool, despite what could be a potentially hazardous situation for him or herself. What would you do? I'd like to think I would use my training to assist that person in need rather than wait for someone else to do so. Same situation here. From the information that has been presented, it appears that this officer witnessed a vehicle creating a hazard to other motorists and pedestrians. Rather than waiting on the local authorities (whom he had already contacted), he chose to you the training he aquired from the state to try and supress a potentially lethal situation before anyone was injured. I am glad that you've followed cars under the suspicion that they were under the influence. At what point, however, do you step it up? Do you wait for that suspicion to turn into a definition? Do you wait for it to turn into a crime scene?

 

[tomson75]

Yes, in waiting for back up. I treasure my safety and well being above all. Furthermore, he is out of his jurisdiction. You have to respect that, and ask for thsi jusridiction for permission and assistance.

Furhtermore, this is the officer's side of the story you are reading. If he did call in, where was the backup? Was the car actually weaving and speeding? Let's wait to see who the driver actually was, and if Foley was actually drinking.

One last thing, carrying a gun means nothing. That in itself gets more officers in trouble than anything else. It gives them a false sense of security, makes them feel invincible. Most officers that die in shootings are shot with their own guns.

Bottom line, I would have handled it a whole different way, and I know for a fact that 99% of officers would have done the same. The job is hard enough without putting yourself in bad situations uneccessairly. This whole mess could, and should have been avoided if handled properly.Calling for backup, and waiting for it would have taken a minute or two longer. When was the last time you responded to a call wehre there wasn't at least a back up unit responding to your location?

I'm not even taken into account the suspect and his actions........I am critizising the officer's actions.

Fair enough. I think, Mr. Cowboy, that this is where we will have to just agree to disagree. I value your opinion as a law enforcement officer. I am however dissapointed to think that 99% of the people in your proffession would remain inactive in this situation. Personally, i'm not sure why anyone would choose a civil service proffession if they didn't actually feel some degree of loyalty to community and the service that they are supposed to provide. I guess it happens in all fields of work though. Cheers.



Quote from Boondock Saints:

we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

 

[Natedawg44]

NAtedawg44: If you are a legitimate physician, I can understand why your profession has dropped to the level of attorney in the publics trust. It is obvious that you are solely about making a buck. So, pass that car wreck on by....it may be your family there one day...which would be a great reason to re-think that approach. Just my .02.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=688
Do some research before you spout off about what you think you know about medicine. Medicine is a business, has been for as long as I've been involved. I never thought medicine should be involved with the dealings of Wall Street, but that kind of thinking has gone the way of the dodo bird. I never said I wouldn't stop if I was the first there, but if any authorities are there, I'm moving on. Being a good samaritan is not without risk, somebody quoted the Dwayne Goodrich situation earlier. Remember it was the Good Samaritans that were killed.

 

[Natedawg44]

Let's wait to see who the driver actually was, and if Foley was actually drinking.

Exactly that has been my point the entire time. We will know soon enough what his blood alcohol level was and that will confirm one side vs the other. Its one thing to stop a potential drunk driver from a potentially fatal situation by almost making it a fatal situation. It is a whole other situation to be off duty cop in a unmarked car and shoot someone in his driveway because he was driving fast.

 

[trueblue1687]

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=688
Do some research before you spout off about what you think you know about medicine. Medicine is a business, has been for as long as I've been involved. I never thought medicine should be involved with the dealings of Wall Street, but that kind of thinking has gone the way of the dodo bird. I never said I wouldn't stop if I was the first there, but if any authorities are there, I'm moving on. Being a good samaritan is not without risk, somebody quoted the Dwayne Goodrich situation earlier. Remember it was the Good Samaritans that were killed.

I've done quite a bit of research actually. In fact, us hayseeds might know more than you think...I have been married to one for nearly 9 years. I don't think I can "spout off" what she said her opinion of your attitude is, so I won't type it. Know this: there are folks in every profession, law enforcement AND medicine, who freeze at having to make a decision...let alone one that means your life or another's. Some fail to act due to fear...others out of fear of liability exposure. As someone posted earlier, nobody is suggesting that any particular person hop every single thing you encounter (that you could act on professionally). The sad part of it all is that I DO put my life on the line for people that don't deserve it, i.e., they would by no means do the same for another person.

At any rate, Natedawg44, Foley wasn't shot for speeding. That was a silly statement at best. He was shot for refusing to comply with commands and making advacnes after being given orders not to. He was stopped for suspicion of DUI (from the way it sounds) and/or speeding. Do a little research before spouting off and look up this term: PROBABLE CAUSE.


As for Mr. Cowboy...no need to get sore about ny post and insinuate mean things. Just an opinion. However, I do have a question for you: if a suspect approaches you and refuses to comply with your commands, do you wait for back-up and respond with force only after being driven into the ground like a tent stake, or do act and protect yourself. The reason for the officer's stop, as long as there is sufficient probable cause FOR the stop, has absolutely NOTHING to do with Foley being shot for not complying with commands, his girlfriend trying to run over the officer (if that is in fact what she was doing), or anything else AFTER the stop. With 20 years service, you know that's true. I would venture to say that the situation could have been handled differently...most all incidents can benefit from hindsight. Lawyers have weeks, months, or years to formulate decisions...most cops have a few seconds to make those same decisions. Again, just my .02

 

[Mr Cowboy]

As for Mr. Cowboy...no need to get sore about ny post and insinuate mean things. Just an opinion. However, I do have a question for you: if a suspect approaches you and refuses to comply with your commands, do you wait for back-up and respond with force only after being driven into the ground like a tent stake, or do act and protect yourself. The reason for the officer's stop, as long as there is sufficient probable cause FOR the stop, has absolutely NOTHING to do with Foley being shot for not complying with commands, his girlfriend trying to run over the officer (if that is in fact what she was doing), or anything else AFTER the stop. With 20 years service, you know that's true. I would venture to say that the situation could have been handled differently...most all incidents can benefit from hindsight. Lawyers have weeks, months, or years to formulate decisions...most cops have a few seconds to make those same decisions. Again, just my .02

Like I said earlier, safety is top priority. No one knows how they would respond in any kind of situation. But in the context of this discussion, I would have ensured that back up was rolling my way. In this case I would have taken cover while giving my commands, knowing that back up was enroute. If the suspect approaches you keep behind cover, moving if you have to. By then back should have arrived.

You are right as far as hindsight is concerned. I have seen good officers reacting to situations as best they can, get fired by review boards who took months to analyze what they did. This being the case, an officer should be prudent in the decisons he makes, and not put himself in a situation that will put him before a board.

And in the example of the backyard bar-b-que, where someone is drowning, you jump in to save him becasue it is the right thing to do, not because you are a life guard. I'm not a lifeguard, but I would jump in, I have on many occassions.

 

[Natedawg44]

I've done quite a bit of research actually. In fact, us hayseeds might know more than you think...I have been married to one for nearly 9 years. I don't think I can "spout off" what she said her opinion of your attitude is, so I won't type it. Know this: there are folks in every profession, law enforcement AND medicine, who freeze at having to make a decision...let alone one that means your life or another's. Some fail to act due to fear...others out of fear of liability exposure. As someone posted earlier, nobody is suggesting that any particular person hop every single thing you encounter (that you could act on professionally). The sad part of it all is that I DO put my life on the line for people that don't deserve it, i.e., they would by no means do the same for another person.

At any rate, Natedawg44, Foley wasn't shot for speeding. That was a silly statement at best. He was shot for refusing to comply with commands and making advacnes after being given orders not to. He was stopped for suspicion of DUI (from the way it sounds) and/or speeding. Do a little research before spouting off and look up this term: PROBABLE CAUSE.

I don't give a crap what anyone's opinion of my attitude is. Never have never will.
Find for me where physicians have the same level of public trust as a lawyer. Your expert words not mine.
Harris poll 85% trust a physician 27% trust a lawyer. Pretty close.
What is silly is acting like you know the guy was drunk. The only people that know are those taking care of him right now because he probably had a tox and alcohol screen the minute he hit the door of the ER. If his BAC comes back zero then how do you defend a guy getting shot in his own yard. He had no reason to believe a guy in an unmarked car out of uniform following him for 10 fricking miles is actually a cop vs a crazed fan. If the BAC is positive then yeah the cop tried to head off a potentially fatal situation by almost causing a fatality.

 

[trueblue1687]

I don't give a crap what anyone's opinion of my attitude is. Never have never will.
Find for me where physicians have the same level of public trust as a lawyer. Your expert words not mine.
Harris poll 85% trust a physician 27% trust a lawyer. Pretty close.
What is silly is acting like you know the guy was drunk. The only people that know are those taking care of him right now because he probably had a tox and alcohol screen the minute he hit the door of the ER. If his BAC comes back zero then how do you defend a guy getting shot in his own yard. He had no reason to believe a guy in an unmarked car out of uniform following him for 10 fricking miles is actually a cop vs a crazed fan. If the BAC is positive then yeah the cop tried to head off a potentially fatal situation by almost causing a fatality.

Not my polls, but your stock is dropping due to lots of reasons, but let's get past that...you make the case anyway.

Actually, I never even mentioned Foley was drunk or even drinking, only that THE ARTICLE in one report mentioned that the officer was suspicious of DUI. As I said previously, learn the meaning of PROBABLE CAUSE and you will realize that his BAC has nothing to do with WHY he was shot. What is it about this that is so hard for you to understand?? He was shot for not complying with what we have to assume were lawful commands and advancing on the officer who had a gun pointed at Foley. If the "crazed fan" BS ever had a chance to hold water, all that would have needed to be done was to call 911 and request a Police Officer...problem solved. It makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE if the guy was in his yard (after running for miles @ 90mph according to articles) or on top of the empire state building. Most guys that profess to be a physician would grasp this after the first few times. Or at least most 21 year old rookie cops do. Fact is, you're living in a dream world if you really believe what you're saying. I can assure you it is not reality.

 

[Big Dakota]

Chargers' Foley to miss season
Associated Press
SAN DIEGO (AP) - Chargers linebacker Steve Foley will miss the season after being shot by an off-duty police officer.

Foley was placed on the non-football injured reserve list on Monday, a day after he was shot near his suburban Poway home by an off-duty Coronado officer.
The outside linebacker, who was being counted on to help anchor the toughest run defense in the NFL, remained hospitalized in stable condition, according to his agent, David Levine.
"Our concern right now is for Steve's overall health and well-being," Chargers general manager A.J. Smith said in a statement. "Steves health needs to be his No. 1 priority. Football is secondary right now. Steve needs to focus on his recovery." The Chargers will open the season next Monday night at Oakland.

 

[tomson75]

And in the example of the backyard bar-b-que, where someone is drowning, you jump in to save him becasue it is the right thing to do, not because you are a life guard. I'm not a lifeguard, but I would jump in, I have on many occassions.

I'm sure you have.

I was a lifeguard for ten years. Four years at a Marine Corps pool, six at a beach. I've only been put in that position five times. I'm sure your expertise as a Police officer gave you ample opportunities to do so. But yet you've done so MANY times? Perhaps you should stop policing the local swimming holes. Your sense of duty, or lack there of, bothers me.

 

[joseephuss]

This topic is intriguing. Lots of different things to disect and still lots of information that we don't know about the situation. Here is my current opinion that may change a little once more information becomes available.

The off duty officer was right to initially follow the guy and try to do something about it. He tried to identify himself and stop Foley from driving. I think he took an unneccesary risk when he confronted Foley in the neighborhood. Once Foley stopped and got out of the car in the neighborhood, the office could have easily backed down and waited in his car until other officers arrived. If Foley drove off again, he could have continued to follow and inform on duty officers of his current location. I am not saying this was the officers only options, but there has to be more options in these types of situations.

We don't know what other equipment the officer had at his disposal. Did he have a radio or was he using a cell phone to get back up? Did he have any other weapons(peppery spray) besides the gun since he was off duty? What was the officer doing up at that time? Was he leaving from a shift? Was he on his way home from a second job? Was he out partying? All of these things and more can play a part in how he acted.

Foley of course is clearly in the wrong. He was in a car that was driving erratically. That is never a good thing. Was he drunk? Was he actually driving? He confronted a person with a gun. Why? I would never do that whether that person identified himself as a cop or not. I would especially back off if a warning shot was fired. We also don't know if a 911 call was made from Foley's car. He could have called in saying that someone was following him claiming to be a cop.

To summarize. Foley = wrong. Cop = right to try to do something about an erratic driver. Cop = may be wrong in methods used, but still not enough information to make that final determination/

This will be interesting to follow.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Many questions, few answers regarding Foley

September 5, 2006

What we know: Little. Steve Foley is a Charger, a professional football player. During Sunday morning's wee hours, he was shot near his Poway home by an off-duty Coronado police officer who had been driving an unmarked car.

What we don't know: Plenty. It is a bizarre incident, one in which little information has come forth on either side.

Foley is an athlete. He has had previous problems, most of them alcohol-related (never convicted). He has been shot by a cop. It's 2006. Not a surprise. It's the world in which we live, the world in which we report.

I was told Foley, who is said to be out of danger – although he's been in intensive care – was shot in the leg and hand at 3:41 Sunday morning near his Poway home. I later was told, without specifics, I was misinformed as to the areas of the gunshot wounds. Now I've heard he was hit in the chest, arm and the knee area (an artery). Whatever, he won't play this year.

If this had been the first incident regarding Foley, it might be surprising, only because of the starting linebacker's locker room persona.
“He's a good kid,” Chargers coach Marty Schottenheimer says.

Foley seems every bit the ideal teammate. He's a personality. His teammates love him. But, once again, we don't live with him, so we can't really know him, or anybody else who plays games for a living – or anyone who doesn't, for that matter. We can only think we do. We don't know that cop, either, or what the hell he was doing.

In this case, in which reports are sketchy – it's an off-the-field injury, so the team insists information come from other sources – there are far more questions than answers.

“I have no answers,” says David Levine, Foley's Florida-based agent. “I don't even know how to define his condition. He's out of surgery, I can say that. I'll be honest with you, I have no first-hand knowledge. I've already been wrong before. I'm not going to be wrong a second time. I'm not there. Everything I'm getting is from someone else.”

Very confusing. Levine may have been right the first time, about the chest wound. We know who got shot. We don't know where. We don't even know the name of the officer who shot him, and we may never know, the way laws are written.

Fact: In April, Foley was accused of resisting arrest, battery on a police officer and being drunk in public on a University City street. Last week, the District Attorney's Office dropped the charges.

That Foley was out with a female companion after 3 a.m. is not surprising. He was returning from an annual dinner thrown for veterans by rookies at a downtown restaurant.

Questions:

Was he driving drunk? (His female companion, Lisa Maree Gaut, has been charged on suspicion of assault with a deadly weapon – she allegedly drove the vehicle in the officer's direction – and driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol.)

What was the off-duty police officer doing out after 3 in the morning?

What exactly happened involving the officer and his call for help? (There are signs on our freeways this weekend pleading for motorists who think they've spotted a drunk driver to call 911.)

Was there any particular reason Foley should have believed a man driving a plain car after 3 a.m. who had followed him for 10 miles was a real policeman?

When Foley reached in his pocket, was he going for his wallet, gum or was he armed?

Did the officer properly identify himself?

Did the police have it out for Foley regarding the April incident? Are there racial profiling overtones to this?

“Was the officer white?” asks Levine. “I don't know. This guy's out after 3 in the morning and follows someone 10 miles and he's not recognized as a police officer. You don't call for help? And the person you're following is outside his own house? I don't even know how far Steve was from him when he was shot. Every side of this is bizarre.”

What isn't bizarre is Foley's track record. He's had problems before, having enrolled in the NFL's alcohol program. If nothing else, the time has come for him to be responsible for his off-the-field actions. This incident might also have had alcohol on its breath.

What I don't get is why millionaires drive after a night on the town. I hate to drive sober. Call a cab. Hire a limo. You're mortal.

Given this, it's difficult to forecast how this will affect the team, which opens its season Monday night in Oakland. The Chargers are very deep at linebacker, but Foley is a starter, and he's now lost for the season, at least.

“He's down for the year,” General Manager A.J. Smith says. “I had to make that decision because I don't believe, from the medical information I've gathered, he'll be able to help us this year.”

Lesser incidents have been distractions.

“That's absolutely a legitimate question,” Smith says, “and I don't have an answer to it. This is a tight-knit group of players. It's a fact of life. You deal with it and move forward.”

Forward from what? If we only knew.

LINK

 

[Mr Cowboy]

You are full of ****. Your sense of duty, or lack there of, bothers me.

You my friend have no idea what you speak of. Being in the Marines, and being a lifeguard gives you absollutely no insight into law enforcement. Perhaps you should consider that Beverly Hills cop is just a movie. It amazes me that someone could sit there and talk about something he knows absolutely about to the point of saying someone is full of #### because they don't agree with you.

As for policing the local water holes, perhaps you should know that when assigned to patrol the Rio Grande, much of your time is spent trying to save folks from drowning while trying to cross illegally.

I have been in many stressful situations in my LEO career. Decisions that could affect your life and those of your loved ones have to be made in a split second. That is why training is so important. Putting your life and career in jeopardy, foolishly and uneccessarily is not part of the training.

Please don't compare your Bay Watch days with LE. Your biggest split second decision is deciding SPF 15 or SPF 30. End of discussion.

 

[jay cee]

WG, I don't know if you are old enough to remember Ida Delaney, she was killed by an off duty police officer here in houston. when he tried to pull her over for a traffic stop.

That happened in the late 80's or early 90's.

She worked nights at the downtown post office I believe, and was on her way to work on I-45 when she "allegedly" cut off the cop. He tried to force her to pull over. But she thought it was a carjacking or road rage, so she brandished the handgun she carried for protection.

I don't remember if she actually fired the gun.

When she got to a construction area, she pulled over and ran toward the work crew for protection with the cop in close pursuit, the cop grabbed her, she turned and shot him, and he returned fire, killing her.

It turns out, he had been drinking, and I believe his blood alcohol level was over the legal limit.

I'll have to look it up, but if I remember correctly, he was found not guilty in his criminal trial, but he did lose his job.

 

[WoodysGirl]

WG, I don't know if you are old enough to remember Ida Delaney, she was killed by an off duty police officer here in houston. when he tried to pull her over for a traffic stop.

That happened in the late 80's or early 90's.

She worked nights at the downtown post office I believe, and was on her way to work on I-45 when she "allegedly" cut off the cop. He tried to force her to pull over. But she thought it was a carjacking or road rage, so she brandished the handgun she carried for protection.

I don't remember if she actually fired the gun.

When she got to a construction area, she pulled over and ran toward the work crew for protection with the cop in close pursuit, the cop grabbed her, she turned and shot him, and he returned fire, killing her.

It turns out, he had been drinking, and I believe his blood alcohol level was over the legal limit.

I'll have to look it up, but if I remember correctly, he was found not guilty in his criminal trial, but he did lose his job.

That might have been before I came to Houston (got here in Aug. '91), but I remember the name. Doesn't she have a park or something in her name? at UH maybe? I never knew the story, I just remembered she was given a tribute of some kind. Thanks for sharing that. I didn't know...and it's very sad what happened to her.

 

[jay cee]

That might have been before I came to Houston (got here in Aug. '91), but I remember the name. Doesn't she have a park or something in her name? at UH maybe? I never knew the story, I just remembered she was given a tribute of some kind. Thanks for sharing that. I didn't know...and it's very sad what happened to her.

It happened almost 2 years before you made it here, WG.
Oct 31, '99. My birthday actually.

I did not know about the memorial, that's nice for her family. I actually worked with her sister a few years after the incident.

 

[WoodysGirl]

It happened almost 2 years before you made it here, WG.
Oct 31, '99. My birthday actually.

I did not know about the memorial, that's nice for her family. I actually worked with her sister a few years after the incident.

I didn't find the tribute, still looking for it, but I did find the article and the police departmental policy change as a result.

http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/aol-metropolitan/96/07/08/guns.html

And man, reading up on some of the follow-up articles due to the appeals process makes me wonder how I missed this. This case went on well into the late '90s.

Off-duty weapons policy always a thorn for HPD


AstroWorld, Delaney case illustrated


S.K. BARDWELL
Copyright 1996 Houston Chronicle
A recent clash between the weapons policies of the Houston Police Department and AstroWorld also served to publicize, for the first time, an abrupt about-face in HPD's off-duty weapons policy four years ago.

One of the first things Police Chief Sam Nuchia did upon taking office in 1992 was to order all his officers to carry their service weapons while off duty.

Nuchia's order reversed one issued three years earlier by then-Chief Lee P. Brown, leaving it up to officers to decide whether they wished to be armed while off duty. Until Brown made the change, department policy required officers to carry their weapons when off duty.

Brown's switch to the discretionary policy came in the wake of the fatal shooting of Ida Lee Delaney on Oct. 31, 1989, by then-police Officer Alex Gonzales.

Even though he was off duty, out of uniform, in a private car and had been drinking heavily, Gonzales was armed when he and two colleagues decided to chase Delaney for 13 miles over a minor traffic insult.

When Delaney finally pulled over to try and get help from some road construction workers, she ended up exchanging gunfire with Gonzales. He was hit once, she four times.

Delaney died. Gonzales has since been convicted of voluntary manslaughter in connection with Delaney's death and sentenced to seven years in prison. His conviction is being appealed.

Brown's change in the department's off-duty weapons policy left the matter up to the officers, but an ordinance adopted by City Council about the same time did not.

That ordinance, which officers today say is much more problematic than any weapons policy the department could initiate, prohibits officers from taking police action while off duty and under the influence of alcohol.

The ordinance goes on to define "under the influence" as having "any measurable concentration of alcohol in his or her blood, breath, or urine."

Some officers say that phrase, "any measurable concentration,"would make them balk at any off-duty policing, since one beer, or even some cough syrups, would result in a measurable concentration of alcohol.

But Nuchia feels strongly about the matter. He said he changed Brown's discretionary weapons policy, "as soon as I walked in the door" to take over as chief in 1992.

"I walked in and said, `Bring me that (policy),' " Nuchia said. "Because I expect my officers to be prepared to protect the public and to take appropriate action at any time.

"It would be unfair to ask them to do that without their weapons,"Nuchia concluded.

The Houston Area Women's Center was vocal in calling for change within HPD after Delaney's death, but Mitzi Voracek, director of community education for the center, said she could see both sides of the issue.

"If they're police officers, they're expected to take action," even off duty, Voracek said. "The public expects that. I know if I had a neighbor who was a police officer, and something happened, that's where I would go for help. It would be worrisome if they didn't carry their guns."

But Voracek agrees officers must be free to socialize off duty, as well: "It can be a problem, guns and alcohol. Each individual police officer needs to use extreme caution."

David Mireles, who heads the Houston Police Patrolmen's Union, said the policy probably is better Nuchia's way, since it makes officers feel more "backed up" if they take police action while off duty.

But Hans Marticiuc, president of the Houston Police Officers Association, said the policy probably was better the way Brown made it, so it gave officers some discretion.

Even Brown seemed rather ambivalent about the policy when he testified in a wrongful death suit pressed against the city and police department by Delaney's family.

Brown said in that August 1990 deposition that the department did not need a written policy that would have prohibited Alex Gonzales from having access to his weapon the night he shot and killed Delaney.

"Anyone with any common sense would know that we don't want officers out drinking and chasing people in private cars. We don't need a rule to state the obvious,"Brown testified.

Several officers said the matter is not as confusing, nor conflicting, as it may appear. The "real rule" governing such matters as carrying a weapon and drinking, they say, remains unwritten.

"You can violate policy and still be a hero," said one officer who asked not to be identified. "You can live by policy and still become a scapegoat.
He said the real rule is don't mess up when you are off duty and armed.

 

[JVita17]

it had to be racial profiling, it had to be thats how police are, it drives me crazybut it wasnt foleys fault is was that ignorant *** cop, it DOES matter he was off duty, HE WAS OFF DUTY he had NO RIGHT TO STOP SOMEBODY AND SHOOT THEM FOR SPEEDING!!!