CN: Whipping the Pistol -- Or, How Not to Get Pistol Whipped?

[Jarv]

It isn't that complicated. Tell your DE to bury the QB every time he comes around the end. Sure, he'll pitch it every time, but pitches don't always go where they are supposed to, and pretty soon the QB will be so battered that they will stop running the option.

The option play with the QB as a run option is not new to football. The NFL teams wouldn't run it before because of the danger of injury to the most important (and usually highest paid) player on the offensive side of the ball. Re-instill that fear and they will quit running that play.

This...Beat the hell out of him. Look down at the QB's broken body and say "Nice fake, fooled the hell out of me, thought you still had the ball"

 

[xwalker]

What depth was Romo and the RB when Romo was in a shotgun type formation with the RB directly behind him?

 

[SkinsFan28]

That's just not true.

The Cowboys and Romo allowed 75 QB hits last year. The Commanders allowed 80. That is hits behind the line of scrimmage and does not include all the hits RG3 took on run plays. Considering the Commanders OL was light years better that indicates the offense the Skins ran played into the additional hits.

Again, even where a QB like Luck took a TON of hits in a pro style offense it is a different thing then taking hits like you are a runner. You can't take out a pocket QB at the legs or the head. You can take out a guy moving forward as a runner in either fashion provided it isn't a flagrant head shot.

Romo got hit plenty but he wasn't out there with a torn ACL which is a RB or WR injury much moreso than a QB.

Time will tell, but I think you are not seeing it right. Our RT was a sieve in pure pass blocking. Had we not run the read option, Griffin would have taken even more shots. The read option to the left basically covered our weakest link on the oline, and forced defenses to leave the middle of the field open for more intermediate passes.

It's really important to realize that Griffins two hits came from his own decisions. On the concussion, he was a foot from out of bounds on a scramble (not read option) and he cut back in, then the Falcon clobbered in. Likewise in the Giants game, he had a line to the sideline, but chose to cut back in, not expecting Ngata to catch him. If Griffin is going to last in this league, it will be because he learns not to force extra yards, not whether the Skins run the zone read or not.

 

[SkinsFan28]

This...Beat the hell out of him. Look down at the QB's broken body and say "Nice fake, fooled the hell out of me, thought you still had the ball"

It just doesn't work like that, the refs and the league already showed that as long as the qb shows his hands clear the defender can't just take a free shot. But go ahead and get your team to try it, I'll take Morris gaining 5 +15 each time. It won't take long till your scheme changes.

 

[HoosierCowboy]

Some of us remember when nobody could stop the wishbone. You just have to punish the QB on every play and sooner or later they make a mistake.

 

[Doomsday101]

Some of us remember when nobody could stop the wishbone. You just have to punish the QB on every play and sooner or later they make a mistake.

True but this is not the wishbone, the QB is not holding on to the ball until the last second drawing the defener to him to then pitch at the last season.

I agree that would not work in the NFL but that is not the case with the pistol.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

True but this is not the wishbone, the QB is not holding on to the ball until the last second drawing the defener to him to then pitch at the last season.

I agree that would not work in the NFL but that is not the case with the pistol.

Your overall point is correct. The "mesh" point is 3-5 yards behind the LOS and by that time the "read" has been made.

Essentially it is like saying "beat up the QB after he hands off the ball" and that'll stop the running game.

No QB gets hit after handing off the ball. Some might at the hand off due to very quick penetration but that is extremely rare

 

[Doomsday101]

Your overall point is correct. The "mesh" point is 3-5 yards behind the LOS and by that time the "read" has been made.

Essentially it is like saying "beat up the QB after he hands off the ball" and that'll stop the running game.

No QB gets hit after handing off the ball. Some might at the hand off due to very quick penetration but that is extremely rare

I agree. Like any Cowboys fan I don't care for the skins but I'm not blind. I think it is a good system that will work and that puts a lot of pressure on defense.

 

[JohnsKey19]

It isn't that complicated. Tell your DE to bury the QB every time he comes around the end. Sure, he'll pitch it every time, but pitches don't always go where they are supposed to, and pretty soon the QB will be so battered that they will stop running the option.

The option play with the QB as a run option is not new to football. The NFL teams wouldn't run it before because of the danger of injury to the most important (and usually highest paid) player on the offensive side of the ball. Re-instill that fear and they will quit running that play.

This. I think you must have a plan and the players must be decisive in their execution. I would commit to punish the QB every time he ventures out with the ball whether he pitches it or not. If you get gashed a few times by the RB for 6-7 yards, oh well. At least you are driving the QB in the dirt each time which will ultimately be a factor at some point.

The problem with the Cowboys DE/LBs last year is too often they were "stuck in the middle" and wound up touching no one giving up huge chunks to both QB and RB. You've got to take the perimeter away from the QB and force him to either run inside or give the ball up. If you're not taking away the perimeter, you have no chance to slow this attack down.

Lastly and most importantly, you've got to have the horses on defense. If you're stuck playing with backup DL and 4 LBs off the street(week 17), it's going to be difficult no matter who is coaching.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

I think the media has the same problem as alot of fans on this board.

You hear one mention of the pistol offense.. and all of a sudden there are 300 articles in a row about it.

One guy mentions some crap about bringing Vince Young to Dallas, based on no information or sound logic at all, all of a sudden 20 mediots are writing stories about why we should bring him in.

 

[slaga]

This. I think you must have a plan and the players must be decisive in their execution. I would commit to punish the QB every time he ventures out with the ball whether he pitches it or not. If you get gashed a few times by the RB for 6-7 yards, oh well. At least you are driving the QB in the dirt each time which will ultimately be a factor at some point.

The problem with the Cowboys DE/LBs last year is too often they were "stuck in the middle" and wound up touching no one giving up huge chunks to both QB and RB. You've got to take the perimeter away from the QB and force him to either run inside or give the ball up. If you're not taking away the perimeter, you have no chance to slow this attack down.

Lastly and most importantly, you've got to have the horses on defense. If you're stuck playing with backup DL and 4 LBs off the street(week 17), it's going to be difficult no matter who is coaching.

The read option uses the decisive nature against the DE / OLB. Whatever he decides to do is wrong. If the DE / OLB crashes down to stop the run, RG3 rounds around the edge into the secondary. If the DE/OLB holds his line and protects the edge, the RB gets the ball and runs up the gut and the DE is out of the play. If the DE/OLB hesitates, the QB either hands it to the RB or has more time to make a throw. When you make a DE/OLB hesitate, you just negated a large prtion of the Defense's pass rush, especially if it is someone like Ware. If you have the DE crash down and stunt a LB around the edge to get the QB, the QB dumps the ball off to the TE where the LB vacated. 1/2 the time the DE/OLB is left completely unblocked and takes himself out of the play before RG3 decides what he is going to do.

Secondly, this is not a option where the QB is running and pitches the ball to the RB behind him. The QB is not that exposed, typically. The QB does not move and the RB comes up next to him like a typical hand off. If a defender gets remotely close to RG3, RG3 throws his arms up and any contact thereafter results in a 15 yard penalty.

 

[Denim Chicken]

The read option uses the decisive nature against the DE / OLB. Whatever he decides to do is wrong. If the DE / OLB crashes down to stop the run, RG3 rounds around the edge into the secondary. If the DE/OLB holds his line and protects the edge, the RB gets the ball and runs up the gut and the DE is out of the play. If the DE/OLB hesitates, the QB either hands it to the RB or has more time to make a throw. When you make a DE/OLB hesitate, you just negated a large prtion of the Defense's pass rush, especially if it is someone like Ware. If you have the DE crash down and stunt a LB around the edge to get the QB, the QB dumps the ball off to the TE where the LB vacated. 1/2 the time the DE/OLB is left completely unblocked and takes himself out of the play before RG3 decides what he is going to do.

Secondly, this is not a option where the QB is running and pitches the ball to the RB behind him. The QB is not that exposed, typically. The QB does not move and the RB comes up next to him like a typical hand off. If a defender gets remotely close to RG3, RG3 throws his arms up and any contact thereafter results in a 15 yard penalty.

OMG!! Read Option is unstoppable. There is nothing anyone can do to defend it! Commanders will will all 16 games and the SB. The NFL is over.

 

[slaga]

OMG!! Read Option is unstoppable. There is nothing anyone can do to defend it! Commanders will will all 16 games and the SB. The NFL is over.

Nice reading comprehension you have there.


It is only used when the DE/OLB tees off and goes after the RB or QB. It is not, and never has been, the bread and butter of the Commanders offense. It will be used at most a handful of times during a game when the DE/OLB is over aggressive. There will be games that it will not be used at all, but the threat is still there. Defenses will have to spend time planning for it even if the don't see it.

 

[jrumann59]

another option is to have your d-line penetrate and read not just rush the QB.

 

[Doomsday101]

another option is to have your d-line penetrate and read not just rush the QB.

Penetration is normally the way to disrupt any offense. Because of the zone blocking Shanahan love to run it is important that guys on the backside not over pursue allowing the back to cut back on them. You really have to maintain discipline.