Colin Cowherd rips Steelers - Supports Irvin

dbair1967

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big dog cowboy said:
I don't know who this Colin Cowherd person is. But I like the way he thinks!

actually this one of the very FEW things I have ever heard from him that I agreed with...the guy is a class A turd to be honest, but he is right about Irvin

no way he shouldnt have been a first ballot HOF, and to not get in again this yr was really pathetic, especially since they voted in Warren Moon, who was a good player but not a dominant player...Irvin was a dominant player and from 91-96 was the best WR in football, despite the contentions of the Jerry Rice arse kissing crowd

David
 

WV Cowboy

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dbair1967 said:
actually this one of the very FEW things I have ever heard from him that I agreed with...the guy is a class A turd to be honest, but he is right about Irvin

no way he shouldnt have been a first ballot HOF, and to not get in again this yr was really pathetic, especially since they voted in Warren Moon, who was a good player but not a dominant player...Irvin was a dominant player and from 91-96 was the best WR in football, despite the contentions of the Jerry Rice arse kissing crowd

David
Didn't Moon have some deal with domestic abuse, beating his wife or something ?

Why isn't that held against him ?
 

riggo

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Manster68-

i have no problem with irvin gettin into the hall. in defense of monk, a few points-

Irvin was a truly great receiver who had his career shortened, was not afraid to go over the middle, and made key downfield blocks for Emmitt (who was given the ball much more than Michael).

monk was also known as a great blocker.



In big games, the name Art Monk was not heard from much.

thats not true. if we look at post season games as 'big games', in 15 career postseason games monk averaged almost 5 catches a game for over 70 yards a game and 7 TD's. irvins numbers are similar- in 16 post season games, almost 6 catches per game for 82 yards and 8 total TD's.

Art got his numbers due to longevity. Irvin was on pace to surpass Monks numbers had he been able to play 16 years.

if we're looking at monks numbers being inflated due to longevity, it's fair to look at the 9th, 10th and 11th years for both players, as these were irvins last 3 complete years. monk caught 226 passes- 75 per year and 18 TD's. in 5 fewer games, irvin caught 213- 71 per year for 12 total TD's.

again, very similar numbers with monk having an edge in TD's even by compensating for irvins 5 fewer games.

monk followed his 11th year with 71 receptions for over 1,000 yards and 8 TD's with an average of 14.8 yards a catch in his 12th season. again, these numbers are comparable to irvins. monks 8 TD's stand out by comparison.

it's also fair to point out that aikman was a better QB than theismann/schroeder/williams/rypien. monk set records with lesser QB's.

3 notable records for monk-
monk retired with more catches than any other WR to ever play the game.
monk set a record for receptions in a season (which has nothing to do with longevity- a sticking point for HOF voters and critics).
monk set a record for most games with at least one reception.

both players should be in. how you say no to the guy who has more catches than any other WR currently in the hall is mind boggling.
 

Manster68

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Riggo,

I do think Art will get in. You make valid points.

I had a friend of mine tell me that eh believes that there are three ways to get into the Hall of Fame.

1. The "WOW" factor - This is where guys like Gayle Sayers, Barry Sanders, Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Fran Tarkenton etc. really factored in. (You will see that many of these guys qualify for other fators as well)

2. The "Big Game" factor - This is where Lynn Swann really fits in. Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman, Smith, Irvin, Unitas, and Bart Starr mainly finds themselves.

3. The "Longevity" factor - This is NOT just time in service; rather it is for SUSTAINED SUPERIOR PERFORMANCE. This is where many of the above players qualify as well as others such as Jim Marshall, George Blanda, Jan Stenerude, Jackie Slater (eventually), Bruce Matthews (eventually), Larry Allen (eventually), Jerry Rice (who eventually qualifies in all three categories), Gimm and Jacoby (eventually)...

...and eventually ART MONK!
 

dbair1967

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WV Cowboy said:
Didn't Moon have some deal with domestic abuse, beating his wife or something ?

Why isn't that held against him ?

I wont go there.....

but like I said earlier, Moon= good player Irvin= great, dominant player

the Hall of Fame should be for GREAT players, not good players

David
 

Rack

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dbair1967 said:
I wont go there.....

but like I said earlier, Moon= good player Irvin= great, dominant player

the Hall of Fame should be for GREAT players, not good players

David

:hammer:
 

Cbz40

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Careful of stats.....some are achieved through longevity. Being around a long time does not make one worthy of the HOF.
 

riggo

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Cbz40 said:
Careful of stats.....some are achieved through longevity. Being around a long time does not make one worthy of the HOF.

through 12 seasons-

Michael Irvin...750 11904 15.9 65

Art Monk.........847 11628 13.7 63



this is without a HOF QB, as well.

here are the most recent WR's to be inducted into the hall.

1995 Steve Largent 819rec 13,089yds 100tds
1996 Charlie Joiner 750rec 12,146yds 65tds
2001 Lynn Swann 336rec 5,462yds 51tds
2002 John Stallworth 537rec 8,723yds 63tds
2003 James Lofton 764rec 14,004yds 75tds

take away monks last 4 seasons, and his numbers still compare favorably.
 

Cbz40

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riggo said:
through 12 seasons-

Michael Irvin...750 11904 15.9 65

Art Monk.........847 11628 13.7 63



this is without a HOF QB, as well.

here are the most recent WR's to be inducted into the hall.

1995 Steve Largent 819rec 13,089yds 100tds
1996 Charlie Joiner 750rec 12,146yds 65tds
2001 Lynn Swann 336rec 5,462yds 51tds
2002 John Stallworth 537rec 8,723yds 63tds
2003 James Lofton 764rec 14,004yds 75tds

take away monks last 4 seasons, and his numbers still compare favorably.

I was not referring to any particular player......I was making a gerneral statement. I would hate to see the NFL HOF become like some others....have good stats and your in.

The HOF is for players that were great, game changers, best athletes on the field.......a "Playmaker".

I have no problem w/Monk going in but not before Pearson or Irvin. After all what is Michael Irvin's nick name.....?? "The Playmaker" ;) ......Pearson made some big plays in his day as well.
 

boysfanindc

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Where did the perception come from that Monk did not make big plays?
 

Cbz40

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kingwhicker said:
Personally, I believe both should be in without a doubt, along with Pearson.


Dang politicians.........:D

Seriously, I would not be opposed to that.
 

Manster68

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kingwhicker said:
Personally, I believe both should be in without a doubt, along with Pearson.

You know, something tells me that Pearson might have burned a bridge or two when he signed on with the XFL. I just remember people being ticked off over that.
 

kingwhicker

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Manster68 said:
You know, something tells me that Pearson might have burned a bridge or two when he signed on with the XFL. I just remember people being ticked off over that.

I think so too, and I think Jerry has a grudge with him (over licensing rights- dealing with his sports apparel company) similar to Tex Schramm's grudge with Lee Roy Jordan which kept Jordan out of the ROH.
 

Cbz40

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Manster68 said:
You know, something tells me that Pearson might have burned a bridge or two when he signed on with the XFL. I just remember people being ticked off over that.


No doubt.......He's not JJ's favorite person either.
 

Cbz40

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kingwhicker said:
I am not a crook, a crock maybe, but not a crook.


I doubt that you are either.....;) I was just messing w/ya
 

kingwhicker

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Cbz40 said:
I doubt that you are either.....;) I was just messing w/ya

Aw, c'mon pops, you let me down, didn't you get my Nixon impersonation? I'll have to work on it.
 
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