Commanders offer Cousins a long term deal

PA Cowboy Fan

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Trouty said:
Kirk is not a top 10 QB, maybe twelve-fifteen, but you did say 10. And Jameis is every bit a top ten QB and a future phenom. Kirk ahead of Dak is a no-go, brother.

Alex Smith is fifteen'ish.
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Winston is going to be a star in this league. Cousins is what he is. He's a good QB but he's not going to win you a SB unless you have a great team around him.
 
NIBGoldenchild

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Trouty said:
Kirk is not a top 10 QB, maybe twelve-fifteen, but you did say 10. And Jameis is every bit a top ten QB and a future phenom. Kirk ahead of Dak is a no-go, brother.

Alex Smith is fifteen'ish.
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Winston is still too reckless with the football. It's something Kirk has matured out of. Kirk is better statistically as well. You're choosing Dak over Kirk due to bias. In terms of potential, yes I would choose Dak over Kirk due to what he could grow into. But TODAY, Rayne is not a better QB than Kirk Cousins. Honestly, Alex Smith shouldn't even be in this conversation. The fact that he remains the Chiefs starter, after not throwing a TD pass to a WR for a full season just shows how dire the state of Quarterbacking is in the NFL.
 
Trouty

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NIBGoldenchild said:
Winston is still too reckless with the football. It's something Kirk has matured out of. Kirk is better statistically as well. You're choosing Dak over Kirk due to bias. In terms of potential, yes I would choose Dak over Kirk due to what he could grow into. But TODAY, Rayne is not a better QB than Kirk Cousins. Honestly, Alex Smith shouldn't even be in this conversation. The fact that he remains the Chiefs starter, after not throwing a TD pass to a WR for a full season just shows how dire the state of Quarterbacking is in the NFL.
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Winston is a blue chip, potentially generational QB. He still 23 and has had two nice seasons. Like Carr, I expect him to explode this season (his third). He's better than Kirk. Not debatable to me.

Today, Dak is better than Kirk. Last season he was better than Kirk. Kirk hasn't had a season, yet, as good as Dak's last, ergo, he's better. "TODAY." Until proven otherwise. Also non-debatable for me.

Kirk is wreckless, buckles under pressure, and takes a game or three to get going. He's a league average QB and has already hit his ceiling at his age.

Alex is fifteen'ish, slightly below Kirk's 12-15 ranking, imo.
 
Trouty

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NIBGoldenchild said:
Winston is still too reckless with the football. It's something Kirk has matured out of. Kirk is better statistically as well. You're choosing Dak over Kirk due to bias. In terms of potential, yes I would choose Dak over Kirk due to what he could grow into. But TODAY, Rayne is not a better QB than Kirk Cousins. Honestly, Alex Smith shouldn't even be in this conversation. The fact that he remains the Chiefs starter, after not throwing a TD pass to a WR for a full season just shows how dire the state of Quarterbacking is in the NFL.
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are you a Skins fan? Genuine question.
 
Trouty

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BobGriffin3 said:
Very few GMs would put Dak ahead of Kirk right now but I believe they are right next to each other. Kirk doesn't have the luxury of handing the ball off 35-40 times a game and running a game plan that established the run to open the pass. We have to deal with establishing the pass and hoping the run shows up. Not the best circumstance for an offense although it is working. Dak also has only 1 year under his belt, although looks great, hard to anoint him ahead of others with a small sample size. I get the homerism/bias we BOTH have, but I highly doubt many outsiders would rank Dak ahead of Kirk. That may change this year, we will remain to be seen.
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I don't think this is true, Bob. And either way, it's pure speculation unless they did a poll. They do polls like this all the time in the NHL (example: Daughty vs. Karlsson two seasons ago).

I think most GMs would select Dak right now.

But you're right, Bob, we'll definitely have a better understanding after this season.

Also, many "outsiders" (your words) did rank Dak ahead of Kirk; the NFL's Top 100 for example.
 
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Trouty said:
Winston is a blue chip, potentially generational QB. He still 23 and has had two nice seasons. Like Carr, I expect him to explode this season (his third). He's better than Kirk. Not debatable to me.

Today, Dak is better than Kirk. Last season he was better than Kirk. Kirk hasn't had a season, yet, as good as Dak's last, ergo, he's better. "TODAY." Until proven otherwise. Also non-debatable for me.

Kirk is wreckless, buckles under pressure, and takes a game or three to get going. He's a league average QB and has already hit his ceiling at his age.

Alex is fiteen'ish, slightly below Kirk's 12-15 ranking, imo.
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Ok. Saying things aren't debatable, doesn't mean they actually aren't debatable.

Kirk has been a better QB than Winston the past two seasons. Sure, he could leapfrog Kirk this season, but that remains to be seen. You don't get credit for potential. The same goes for Rayne. He was not better than Kirk last season. He wasn't better than Eli either. He did exceptionally well what he was asked to do, which wasn't much and he was rarely put in the position where he had to shoulder the offense and do more from the pocket. Kirk threw for 1,300 more yards while maintaining the same completion percentage. Ask yourself this, if Dak was the Skins QB last season would he have been able to execute that playbook at the same level or would Gruden have to slow it down for him?

How Kirk is reckless and Winston isn't? You sound like you haven't watched his development since becoming the starter over the past two seasons. The games were he throws 3-4 INTs are long gone. That is more Winston's MO. I do agree he tends to start the season slowly, twice he's started the season with accuracy issues but gets better as the season goes on. His biggest weakness is not showing up for big games. But all of that doesn't change the fact he is the focal point of the Skins offense, which is highly productive.
 
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NIBGoldenchild said:
Ok. Saying things aren't debatable, doesn't mean they actually aren't debatable. You're just being close-minded.

Kirk has been a better QB than Winston the past two seasons. Sure, he could leapfrog Kirk this season, but that remains to be seen. You don't get credit for potential. The same goes for Rayne. He was not better than Kirk last season. He wasn't better than Eli either. He did exceptionally well what he was asked to do, which wasn't much and he rarely was put in the position where he had to shoulder the offense and do more from the pocket. Kirk threw for 1,300 more yards while maintaining the same completion percentage. Ask yourself this, if Dak was the Skins QB last season would he have been able to execute that playbook at the same level or would Gruden have to slow it down for him?

How Kirk is reckless and Winston? You sound like you haven't watched his development since becoming the starter over the past two seasons. The games were he throws 3-4 INTs are long gone. That is more Winston's MO. I do agree he tends to start the season slowly, twice he's started the season with accuracy issues but gets better as the season goes on. His biggest weakness is not showing up for big games. But all of that doesn't change the fact he is the focal point of the Skins offense, which is highly productive.
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Whoa, hold the phone. You're telling me Dak wasn't better than Kirk last season? Dak lead his team to the playoffs and nearly pulled off a sensational comeback against ARod.

Dak also recorded 4 INTs. Dak's yards per attempt were only .1 yds below Kirk's. 8.1 vs 8.0. QBR for Dak 81.5 to Kirk's 71.7. QB Rating for Dak, 104.9 (incredible for a rook in a non-gimmick offense [see: RG3]) to Kirk's 97.2. Dak rushed for 282 YDs and 6 TDs to Kirk's 96 YDs and 4 TDs. Kirk was far less efficient with the amount of YDs he threw, as he passed for 1,300 more YDs, but only two more TDs.

Dak is better. Had a much better season, too.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CousKi00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PresDa01.htm
 
NIBGoldenchild

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Trouty said:
Whoa, hold the phone. You're telling me Dak wasn't better than Kirk last season? Dak lead his team to the playoffs and nearly pulled off a sensational comeback against ARod.

Dak also recorded 4 INTs. Dak's yards per attempt were only .1 yds below Kirk's. 8.1 vs 8.0. QBR for Dak 81.5 to Kirk's 71.7. QB Rating for Dak, 104.9 (incredible for a rook in a non-gimmick offense [see: RG3]) to Kirk's 97.2. Dak rushed for 282 YDs and 6 TDs to Kirk's 96 YDs and 4 TDs. Kirk was far less efficient with the amount of YDs he threw, as he passed for 1,300 more YDs, but only two more TDs.

Dak is better. Had a much better season, too.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CousKi00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PresDa01.htm
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You saying Dak lead the Cowboys to the playoffs and losing in the first game, is almost as bad as a Ravens fan saying Trent Dilfer led their team to a championship. It's technically true, but lacks context.

Yes, he had 4 INTs in an offense that was much less reliant on him because he's still learning. RG3 only had 5 INTs his rookie season, Nick Foles only had 2 INTs his first year as a starter. How did that work out for them? Basing future success with a bigger role on a player's success with a limited playbook and no game film has proven to be a bad idea time after time. Don't say he was in a non-gimmick offense. Your coaches never opened up that playbook. The Dallas offense was not the same as it was with Romo, and it didn't have to be, Zeke and your OL made things much easier for Dak. Wentz wished he had the same riches on offense.

You say Kirk was less efficient, yet due to no running game, he threw 157 more times than Dak and still had the same completion percentage. Kirk had to shoulder a bigger load. If he was inaccurate in a game, the Skins lose. The defense was terrible, a franchise worst on 3rd down and could not get off the field. Kirk had very little help from the other phases of the game, and only positives were an excellent playbook and great receiving options. Despite having the talented pass catchers, he still had to get the ball there when the defense knew it was their only way of moving the chains. Again I ask, could Dak have run Gruden's offense last season. You and I both know the answer is no.

You're a homer and you're backing the future of your franchise, and I get it. Dak has a bright future, but the truth of the matter he is not a better QB than Kirk TODAY.
 
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