Comp Pick Value & Franchised Player Trades

[eromeopolk]

Jason Garrett is still Head Coach, Jerry Jones is still GM, and Jimmy Johnson returning is like waiting on the second coming of no one.

So, I don't get that involve to think about compensation for free agent loss.

It doesn't matter what we think...That's why I play franchise mode on Madden.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

How is the 2015 roster comparable to the 2019?

Was the defense expected to be great then like it is now?

Are we really pretending what happened 4 years ago has any bearing on today? And the decisions we should and/or shouldn't make?

Why does moving on from Dak mean we have to have the worst qb play this team has seen in 20 years?

OH and we ran the ball well in 2015 since you mention it. And that was with the worst passing attack we've had in 20 years and no Zeke.

So 2015 was the worst passing attack we have ever had in 20 years even though we ran the ball well. Only thing that changed from 2015 to 2016 was Dak, same OL, same TE same receivers.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

So 2015 was the worst passing attack we have ever had in 20 years even though we ran the ball well. Only thing that changed from 2015 to 2016 was Dak, same OL, same TE same receivers.

No player stays the same from one year to the next yet alone a team.

When you draft top 4 in every round you also obviously add talent across the board as well as have guys develop.

Meanwhile both Dak and Zeke look back at 2016 as a high water mark for each of their performances.

 

[xwalker]

What teams ever say it publicly when they're stuck with a player?
Keep looking, you'll find plenty. If you need my help to find it, just let me know and I'll be glad to help.
Again, you need to keep digging. It's well established.

Sidenote:
The Rams got the steal of the draft with RB Darrell Henderson in the 3rd round.

He was my favorite RB in the draft.
They won't need to over-work Gurley now.
Henderson can do it all (inside, outside, receiving).
Henderson was available in the 3rd because team want bigger RB now.
He is about the size of Emmitt and Barry Sanders...​

I said Local Reports. The National media jumped on the bandwagon that Gurley's career will be significantly limited by a degenerative knee issue.

I can't find anything to indicate that the long term status of his knee has changed since they gave him the contract.

An article from CBS:

Todd Gurley's trainer Travelle Gaines confirmed to CBS Sports that his client is dealing with an "arthritic component to his knee," but stressed that Gurley will be ready for the 2019 season.

"Everybody knew when Todd came out of Georgia that there would be some kind of arthritic component to his knee, which is part of every surgery whether it's a shoulder, a knee, an ankle," Gaines said late last week. "He's now at the year-five mark, all we're doing is managing that. If we can pound him less in the offseason while keeping his weight down, working on his strength, working on his agility in short areas, that's going to give him a better chance to be healthy Weeks 14 through 17 when they really count."

When asked about Gurley losing touches, potentially to new rookie Darrell Henderson, Gaines expressed optimism.

"It's never been told to me that there's a plan to decrease his workload come Week 1," Gaines said. "At the end of the day, you need solid running backs, and they grabbed a home-run running back in the third round. ... If you watched the games last year, Todd typically sat out two to three series last year. I don't see anything changing with that, so you need a back who can catch, and I believe Darrell averaged around 9.0 yards per carry, a home-run type guy."

Gurley tore his left ACL while at Georgia in 2014. Though he recovered fully and went on to post All-Pro caliber campaigns in 2017 and 2018, he seemed to deal with some kind of problem related to the knee last December. Gurley missed the final two games of the regular season and played sparingly in the playoffs, including a 10-carry, 35-yard outing versus the Patriots in Super Bowl LIII.

The Athletic reported in March that Gurley was dealing with arthritis, but that was never confirmed by the team or by Gurley. Rams head coach Sean McVay has only discussed a plan put in place for Gurley to follow this offseason, noting as recently as last week that Gurley "looks good" after doing "some things over here that we thought would be good from a maintenance standpoint."

Those things aren't actually anything different than what Gurley's been doing during each of the last three offseasons since Gaines became Gurley's trainer in Los Angeles.

"Not one thing has changed," said Gaines, who owns and operates his own performance training center, Athletic Gaines, in Los Angeles. "Our routine has worked, he's been strong, he's been in great shape, he's done well."

"He got a little tired toward the end of last year because he was carrying the ball a lot. Could he have played last year? Yeah, but when you already have the division and seeding clinched, what was the point?"

NFL Network reported in late May that Gurley intended to lose about six pounds after playing at 224 pounds last year. Gaines shot down rumors that the weight loss had to do with his knee.

"It was a collective decision for him to play a little lighter this year, not because of injuries, just because I just feel he's one of the faster players in the league," Gaines said. "He doesn't have to play at 224. 218 is only six pounds less, so I wanted to decrease his body fat a little bit and get him to the point where he's a tad smaller so he can be a tad faster and a little bit bigger from a lean muscle mass standpoint. He's going from basically 10 percent body fat to 7 percent body fat."

Ultimately, Gurley did not participate in any offseason workouts or minicamp practices with the Rams. Gaines believes the reason for that was obvious.

"Todd was paid $60 million over four years and the Rams want to get every dime out of that contract," he said. "So what good is it to pound him in April and May when you need him in November, December and January?"

The plan, per Gaines, is to spend all of July ramping up Gurley's work away from the field so that he can participate in training camp. And after that?

"Todd is asked to do a lot in that offense, so to preserve him as much as possible is what the goal of the game is," he said. "Their sports science department and sports medicine department are made up of very sharp individuals, so whatever they subscribe and ask me to help out with to do with Todd as Todd's with me every single day, I'm going to do it. I think the Rams have a great formula and are a phenomenal franchise."

The Rams didn't use Gurley in any preseason games last year, something Gaines expects to happen again this fall.

The team may also have a couple of joint practices with other teams but it's not clear if Gurley will partake in those or be held out.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

No player stays the same from one year to the next yet alone a team.

When you draft top 4 in every round you also obviously add talent across the board as well as have guys develop.

Meanwhile both Dak and Zeke look back at 2016 as a high water mark for each of their performances.

Jaylon Smith didn't even play, Collins was a backup and was injured, Tapper player nothing. Other than Zeke and Dak no other player drafted in the top 4 rounds were a starter and Collins is the only one that played.

The fact some people can't give Dak credit is beyond stupid and shows just how little they know about the game.

Sure players change from season to season but it's not just for good some decline. Weeden, Cassell and Moore had more to work with than Dak his rookie season and he won 13 games(would have been 14) that's 12 wins more than the other QBs got all year in 15..... Not including Romo

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Jaylon Smith didn't even play, Collins was a backup and was injured, Tapper player nothing. Other than Zeke and Dak no other player drafted in the top 4 rounds were a starter and Collins is the only one that played.

The fact some people can't give Dak credit is beyond stupid and shows just how little they know about the game.

Sure players change from season to season but it's not just for good some decline. Weeden, Cassell and Moore had more to work with than Dak his rookie season and he won 13 games(would have been 14) that's 12 wins more than the other QBs got all year in 15..... Not including Romo

I think we had better players at qb and rb in 2016 than 2015. I have never argued otherwise.

2015 qb play made the roster appear worse than it was. Iirc going into the season expectations were not low.

 

[xwalker]

Not true at all. He will always be one more screwup away from suspension or worse.

What has Frank Clark been suspended for since he's joined the NFL? That is a comparable discussion point.

Martavis Bryant was suspended multiple times while with the Steelers.

The Steelers traded him to the Raiders for a 3rd round pick.
​

The Pats gave up a 5th for Josh Gordon who has about the highest probably of getting suspended as any player, ever.

Any player can get suspended at any time.

Zeke is not in the drug offender program that basically mandates escalating punishments for each offense.

There is no set suspension time if he gets in trouble again.

Most media, even National thought that if he got suspended for the Vegas incident that it would be a game or two max.

 

[xwalker]

The reality is that you would be receiving a 3rd round pick in the next draft, not a 5th rounder in the current one.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Saying it's a 4th instead of a 3rd is just silly, unless we want to start claiming the 32nd pick in the draft is a 2nd rounder too, which noone is going to do. Also the "year later" present value given of 1 round is super outdated. I don't need to explain that there's a huge difference in value created between trading a 2020 6th rounder for a 2019 6th rounder or trading a 2020 1st round for a 2019 2nd rounder. It simply just isn't the case.

The comparison is comp pick vs trade. In a trade the pick is in the current year (same year as the free agent departs).

There needs to be a method to compare values.

The value of a 2020 draft pick is less than the value of a 2019 draft pick.


With regards to you pick 32rd comment, no pick 33 is pick 1 in the 2nd round.
1 x 32 = 32 (pick 33 is round 2 value )
2 x 32 = 64 (pick 65 is round 3 value )
3 x 32 = 96 (pick 97 is round 4 value)
4 x 32 = 128 (pick 129 is round 5 value)

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

The comparison is comp pick vs trade. In a trade the pick is in the current year (same year as the free agent departs).

There needs to be a method to compare values.

The value of a 2020 draft pick is less than the value of a 2019 draft pick.


With regards to you pick 32rd comment, no pick 33 is pick 1 in the 2nd round.
1 x 32 = 32 (pick 33 is round 2 value )
2 x 32 = 64 (pick 65 is round 3 value )
3 x 32 = 96 (pick 97 is round 4 value)
4 x 32 = 128 (pick 129 is round 5 value)

In a trade, it's not always the current year. Team trade away/for future picks all the time.
There needs to be one, but this isn't it.

 

[xwalker]

In a trade, it's not always the current year. Team trade away/for future picks all the time.
There needs to be one, but this isn't it.

That's normally when there are multiple picks involved or a low level player for a late round pick.

Some Examples of Real Trades

Antonio Brown (trade March 2019)

Steelers Received

2019 3rd
2019 5th​

Frank Clark (trade April 2019)

Seattle Received

2019 first-round pick
2020 second-round pick​

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

That's normally when there are multiple picks involved or a low level player for a late round pick.

Some Examples of Real Trades

Antonio Brown (trade March 2019)

Steelers Received

2019 3rd
2019 5th​

Frank Clark (trade April 2019)

Seattle Received

2019 first-round pick
2020 second-round pick​

Yes, this proved my point.

Real trade:
Cowboys receive DE Robert Quinn
Dolphins receive 2020 sixth-round pick

 

[Stash]

Martavis Bryant was suspended multiple times while with the Steelers.

The Steelers traded him to the Raiders for a 3rd round pick.​

And got burned.
​

The Pats gave up a 5th for Josh Gordon who has about the highest probably of getting suspended as any player, ever.

Which he did.

Any player can get suspended at any time.

Zeke is not in the drug offender program that basically mandates escalating punishments for each offense.

There is no set suspension time if he gets in trouble again.

Most media, even National thought that if he got suspended for the Vegas incident that it would be a game or two max.

And now the ice he stands on is even thinner. A GM who reports to an actual owner isn’t going to risk his career to pay big time for a multi-time offender and suspension risk.

 

[xwalker]

And got burned.
​

Which he did.



And now the ice he stands on is even thinner. A GM who reports to an actual owner isn’t going to risk his career to pay big time for a multi-time offender and suspension risk.

You rarely provide any facts.

 

[xwalker]

Yes, this proved my point.

Real trade:
Cowboys receive DE Robert Quinn
Dolphins receive 2020 sixth-round pick

As I said, late round picks or multiple picks but rarely if ever as the main pick in return for a premium player.

 

[Kaiser]

Yes, this proved my point.

Real trade:
Cowboys receive DE Robert Quinn
Dolphins receive 2020 sixth-round pick

But that was a salary dump, the Dolphins had zero leverage because the entire NFL knew they would cut Quinn unless someone did that time of trade.

 

[Kaiser]

The fact some people can't give Dak credit is beyond stupid and shows just how little they know about the game.

Its stupid to pretend the 2018 OL with guys like Adam Redmond on the field is the same as our healthy 2015 OL.

Its also stupid to pretend our WRs in the first half of 2018 were the same as the Dez Bryant still in his prime at the team had in 2015.

But any port in the bash a player you don't like storm, I guess.

 

[Stash]

You rarely provide any facts.

Seriously?

I've provided a whole bunch of 'inconvenient facts' that you simply would rather choose to ignore because they derail the current agenda. And I did again with the examples you provided blowing up in the faces of the teams that traded for them.

Try this 'fact', tell me how many times your attempted trade comp Frank Clark has been suspended or in trouble at the NFL level? I noticed you conveniently glossed over it the first time because it derails your argument.

 

[xwalker]

Seriously?

I've provided a whole bunch of 'inconvenient facts' that you simply would rather choose to ignore because they derail the current agenda. And I did again with the examples you provided blowing up in the faces of the teams that traded for them.

Try this 'fact', tell me how many times your attempted trade comp Frank Clark has been suspended or in trouble at the NFL level? I noticed you conveniently glossed over it the first time because it derails your argument.

I see things being seriously skewed toward particular outcomes here.
NOT A FACT.

If we're placing notes beside the options, make sure to note in option 2 that nobody is trading for a running back who could potentially be suspended tomorrow for any further screw-ups.
NOT A FACT.

And when talking option 3, be sure to note that any contract would exceed the 4-year $60 million deal that Todd Gurley got. The one the Rams are sorely regretting already.
NOT A FACT.

Not true at all. He will always be one more screwup away from suspension or worse.
NOT A FACT.

What has Frank Clark been suspended for since he's joined the NFL?
Question or Statement?

That is a comparable discussion point.
NOT A FACT.

What teams ever say it publicly when they're stuck with a player?
NOT A FACT.

Keep looking, you'll find plenty. If you need my help to find it, just let me know and I'll be glad to help.
NOT A FACT.

Again, you need to keep digging. It's well established.
NOT A FACT.

And got burned.
Which he did.
Irrelevant Information.

The peak of Mount Everest is 8850 (+/- 10) meters tall. Also irrelevant to the discussion.

The FACT is that they did trade a 3rd for him.

And now the ice he stands on is even thinner. A GM who reports to an actual owner isn’t going to risk his career to pay big time for a multi-time offender and suspension risk.
NOT A FACT.

I've provided a whole bunch of 'inconvenient facts' that you simply would rather choose to ignore because they derail the current agenda. And I did again with the examples you provided blowing up in the faces of the teams that traded for them.
Replying with questions to my facts is NOT presenting FACTs.

Try this 'fact', tell me how many times your attempted trade comp Frank Clark has been suspended or in trouble at the NFL level? I noticed you conveniently glossed over it the first time because it derails your argument.
This question is the closest thing to a fact that you've posted.

To make a meaningful fact out of this, you would need to provide data supporting the concept that Zeke having had 1 (one) suspension in the past makes him more likely than Frank Clark to get suspended.

Fact:
Zeke is not in the NFL Drug Offender program.
No season long or lifetime suspension is looming for Zeke.

Fact:
Frank Clark has shown to be a volatile personality.

Arrested for theft.
Arrested for domestic violence.
Threatened Media Person via Twitter
Banned from Seahawks practices for Violence.​

NOT FACT:
Zeke more likely to be suspended than Frank Clark.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

I think we had better players at qb and rb in 2016 than 2015. I have never argued otherwise.

2015 qb play made the roster appear worse than it was. Iirc going into the season expectations were not low.

I agree with you that RB and QB were better players in 16 than 15

 

[Stash]

I see things being seriously skewed toward particular outcomes here.
NOT A FACT.

If we're placing notes beside the options, make sure to note in option 2 that nobody is trading for a running back who could potentially be suspended tomorrow for any further screw-ups.
NOT A FACT.

And when talking option 3, be sure to note that any contract would exceed the 4-year $60 million deal that Todd Gurley got. The one the Rams are sorely regretting already.
NOT A FACT.

Not true at all. He will always be one more screwup away from suspension or worse.
NOT A FACT.

What has Frank Clark been suspended for since he's joined the NFL?
Question or Statement?

That is a comparable discussion point.
NOT A FACT.

What teams ever say it publicly when they're stuck with a player?
NOT A FACT.

Keep looking, you'll find plenty. If you need my help to find it, just let me know and I'll be glad to help.
NOT A FACT.

Again, you need to keep digging. It's well established.
NOT A FACT.

And got burned.
Which he did.
Irrelevant Information.

The peak of Mount Everest is 8850 (+/- 10) meters tall. Also irrelevant to the discussion.

The FACT is that they did trade a 3rd for him.

And now the ice he stands on is even thinner. A GM who reports to an actual owner isn’t going to risk his career to pay big time for a multi-time offender and suspension risk.
NOT A FACT.

I've provided a whole bunch of 'inconvenient facts' that you simply would rather choose to ignore because they derail the current agenda. And I did again with the examples you provided blowing up in the faces of the teams that traded for them.
Replying with questions to my facts is NOT presenting FACTs.

Try this 'fact', tell me how many times your attempted trade comp Frank Clark has been suspended or in trouble at the NFL level? I noticed you conveniently glossed over it the first time because it derails your argument.
This question is the closest thing to a fact that you've posted.

To make a meaningful fact out of this, you would need to provide data supporting the concept that Zeke having had 1 (one) suspension in the past makes him more likely than Frank Clark to get suspended.

Fact:
Zeke is not in the NFL Drug Offender program.
No season long or lifetime suspension is looming for Zeke.

Fact:
Frank Clark has shown to be a volatile personality.

Arrested for theft.
Arrested for domestic violence.
Threatened Media Person via Twitter
Banned from Seahawks practices for Violence.​

NOT FACT:
Zeke more likely to be suspended than Frank Clark.

Thanks for clearly confirming the FACT that I initially pointed out. The fact that you’re doing anything and everything you can to skew facts and information in an attempt to get to where you’d like to go.