Twitter: Competition Committee says Dez caught it **merged**

[blindzebra]

Oh so NOW you claim it's a mistake. Now that the thread is in the Drama Zone, lol. Every other time you bristled at me saying I corrected you but now you admit I did. You sure did seem so sure that I didn't know what I was talking about then though. This is progress at least.

So since this is the first time I've ever heard you disavow those comments, when did those players in the case plays become runners?

I said I misused before a long time ago, and as you always do you ignored it and kept on bragging about correcting me when you know damn well you did not.

All of the case plays have a player...and since they all have offensive players in them they are receivers. You have receivers going to the ground in the process of the catch. That is a player that has not completed 8.1.3.a.b.c. When these receivers perform an act common to the game...and by rule, that is ANY ACT, they are no longer a receiver going to the ground they are a runner. That is why it says that the lunge is not part of the catch process, because any act common to the game makes the player a runner.

As I have been saying for over two years.

 

[BlindFaith]

The only thing in there that was even remotely accurate was here is my opinion. That is a fact because we are still waiting for that rule reference that says gather, interrupt, pause the fall, hell even brace, that allows for this magical lunge.
And for all the readers out there a little fact...the reason it says that a lunge is not part of the catch process is because an act common to the game makes you a runner.

I only needed one stentence to ruin everything his War and Peace-sized opinion said.

You are hopeless. Bluster doesn't make you right.

So since you've refused to answer any of my questions. Maybe if I just ask one you will answer it.

Does "if a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass" mean that if the player has not completed the act of catching a pass prior to when they begin to go to the ground?

Yes or No

If No, then please provide your explanation as to what only the going to the ground rule means. And only that. Don't try and stick in case plays or other nonsense.

Can you just answer this one question?

 

[MarcusRock]

I said I misused before a long time ago, and as you always do you ignored it and kept on bragging about correcting me when you know damn well you did not.

All of the case plays have a player...and since they all have offensive players in them they are receivers. You have receivers going to the ground in the process of the catch. That is a player that has not completed 8.1.3.a.b.c. When these receivers perform an act common to the game...and by rule, that is ANY ACT, they are no longer a receiver going to the ground they are a runner. That is why it says that the lunge is not part of the catch process, because any act common to the game makes the player a runner.

As I have been saying for over two years.

LOL. I see a lot of plugging in of words to jive with what you're saying NOW. So you are now saying that those players became runners after they performed the act of lunging (as listed in all 3 case plays)?

And since you're handing out new-fangled answers today, how about my question about why A.R. 8.12 appears in the 2015 rules if it's in "conflict" with the upright long enough language in Item 1? I asked that before I asked the one above.

 

[blindzebra]

You are hopeless. Bluster doesn't make you right.

So since you've refused to answer any of my questions. Maybe if I just ask one you will answer it.

Does "if a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass" mean that if the player has not completed the act of catching a pass prior to when they begin to go to the ground?

Yes or No

If No, then please provide your explanation as to what only the going to the ground rule means. And only that. Don't try and stick in case plays or other nonsense.

Can you just answer this one question?

Show one place where I said it didn't. That is irrelevant to whether or not 8.1.3.a.b.c can be completed AFTER going to the grounds begins.

The only thing hopeless is the lame attempts you and Marcus are trying to use to discredit and detract from facts you have no answer for.

 

[blindzebra]

LOL. I see a lot of plugging in of words to jive with what you're saying NOW. So you are now saying that those players became runners after they performed the act of lunging (as listed in all 3 case plays)?

And since you're handing out new-fangled answers today, how about my question about why A.R. 8.12 appears in the 2015 rules if it's in "conflict" with the upright long enough language in Item 1? I asked that before I asked the one above.

The amount of BS you post requires hip wadders ten feet tall. I answered your accusation and you know damn well that I have been consistent in my interpretation since day one, with one misuse of the word before. Do I need to go back and link every time your store changed, and every time you used the wrong word in a post? There is a reason all you do is copy and paste...because it is really difficult to tell the same lie over and over.

 

[Kevinicus]

Does "if a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass" mean that if the player has not completed the act of catching a pass prior to when they begin to go to the ground?

Yes or No

I assume by "begin to go to the ground" you mean "begins to fall."

So, the answer is no.

If No, then please provide your explanation as to what only the going to the ground rule means. And only that. Don't try and stick in case plays or other nonsense.

Can you just answer this one question?

Going to the ground rule meant, in 2014, if you hit the ground prior to completing the catch process then you must maintain control. Simple.

In 2015, they added "upright long enough" which changes the rule to mean if you start to fall to the ground prior to completing the catch process then you must maintain control. Also simple, but extremely subjective. Also the reason for more ridiculous incompletions and public confusion since then.

It's telling, though, that you consider case plays nonsense.

 

[blindzebra]

I assume by "begin to go to the ground" you mean "begins to fall."

So, the answer is no.



Going to the ground rule meant, in 2014, if you hit the ground prior to completing the catch process then you must maintain control. Simple.

In 2015, they added "upright long enough" which changes the rule to mean if you start to fall to the ground prior to completing the catch process then you must maintain control. Also simple, but extremely subjective. Also the reason for more ridiculous incompletions and public confusion since then.

It's telling, though, that you consider case plays nonsense.

They are nonsense when they support our side but the holy grail when it fits their agenda.

Gotta love the entire insults and outright lies they use to distract away from the facts too. Troll behavior 101.

 

[BlindFaith]

Show one place where I said it didn't.

So you say yes to this?:

Does "if a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass" mean that if the player has not completed the act of catching a pass prior to when they begin to go to the ground?

Yes or No

But then you say this:

That is irrelevant to whether or not 8.1.3.a.b.c can be completed AFTER going to the grounds begins.

Even though I say this:

they begin to go to the ground

You sure you read it? Care to change your answer?

 

[BlindFaith]

LOL. I see a lot of plugging in of words to jive with what you're saying NOW. So you are now saying that those players became runners after they performed the act of lunging (as listed in all 3 case plays)?

And since you're handing out new-fangled answers today, how about my question about why A.R. 8.12 appears in the 2015 rules if it's in "conflict" with the upright long enough language in Item 1? I asked that before I asked the one above.

Yes. He has some receiver VS runner concoction he's trying to brew up.

This is exactly why they don't answer questions. Because once they do slip up and actually do try, they start creating their own logic.

 

[blindzebra]

So you say yes to this?:


But then you say this:


Even though I say this:


You sure you read it? Care to change your answer?

Read it a few times and I am not sure if it is even in English. Nice job of talking in circles within a question though.

The catch process can be completed after a player begins to fall right up until they hit the ground. You know what has been said over and over again.

 

[blindzebra]

Yes. He has some receiver VS runner concoction he's trying to brew up.

This is exactly why they don't answer questions. Because once they do slip up and actually do try, they start creating their own logic.

Concoction? That is funny since that is the freaking rule.

 

[BlindFaith]

You sure you read it? Care to change your answer?

So I will provide what I think his answer will be, since he hardly ever answers questions.

This is a direct quote from BZ:
"All of the case plays have a player...and since they all have offensive players in them they are receivers. You have receivers going to the ground in the process of the catch. That is a player that has not completed 8.1.3.a.b.c. When these receivers perform an act common to the game...and by rule, that is ANY ACT, they are no longer a receiver going to the ground they are a runner. That is why it says that the lunge is not part of the catch process, because any act common to the game makes the player a runner."

Lets break down what he's trying to say

1. All of the case plays have a player
Yes, they do.

2. and since they all have offensive players in them they are receivers.
The rule going to the ground says nothing about the player being a receiver or a runner. They are neither before completing a catch. And once a player completes a catch, they are a runner. If there is a different process or definition for a receiver, it is NOWHERE in the rulebook.

3. You have receivers going to the ground in the process of the catch.
No. You have a player who is going to the ground. See #2 for clarification

4. That is a player that has not completed 8.1.3.a.b.c.
Correct

5. When these receivers perform an act common to the game...and by rule, that is ANY ACT, they are no longer a receiver going to the ground
So lets change this to
"when these players perform and act common to the game, they are no longer a player going to the ground."
Because we have clarified that there is nothing in the rule book that differentiates between player and receiver.

6. As for this "and by rule, that is ANY ACT,"
A player does become a runner by performing any act common to the game, UNLESS he has not completed the act of catching the ball before he starts going to the ground.
Item 1: Player Going to the Ground.
If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

7. So, we can now clarify for you what the rule actually means.
A. If a player - Player being just a player (no other made up definition for him)
B. goes to the ground - meaning at some point the player goes from not on the ground to being on the ground
C. in the act of catching a pass - This means that if the player has not completed the catch process and somewhere from the beginning of the catch process to the completion of the catch process they are judged to being going to the ground.
Beginning - of the catch process starts from the first milisecond that the ball touches a players hand - Start of possessing the ball
Through - getting two feet down
To - Making an act common to the game

The only way that Dez caught the ball is if he had become a runner before he was judged to be going to the ground.

8. So, at what point do you say Dez was going to the ground?

 

[BlindFaith]

Read it a few times and I am not sure if it is even in English. Nice job of talking in circles within a question though.

The catch process can be completed after a player begins to fall right up until they hit the ground. You know what has been said over and over again.

No worries, your opinion on what is or isn't adequate written text is unimportant.

 

[BlindFaith]

The catch process can be completed after a player begins to fall right up until they hit the ground. You know what has been said over and over again.

This is not what the rule says. And is a piss poor explanation to a point so clearly the key to your whole feeble defense.

But no worries, I answered it for you since I knew you wouldn't. See above.

 

[blindzebra]

So I will provide what I think his answer will be, since he hardly ever answers questions.

This is a direct quote from BZ:
"All of the case plays have a player...and since they all have offensive players in them they are receivers. You have receivers going to the ground in the process of the catch. That is a player that has not completed 8.1.3.a.b.c. When these receivers perform an act common to the game...and by rule, that is ANY ACT, they are no longer a receiver going to the ground they are a runner. That is why it says that the lunge is not part of the catch process, because any act common to the game makes the player a runner."

Lets break down what he's trying to say

1. All of the case plays have a player
Yes, they do.

2. and since they all have offensive players in them they are receivers.
The rule going to the ground says nothing about the player being a receiver or a runner. They are neither before completing a catch. And once a player completes a catch, they are a runner. If there is a different process or definition for a receiver, it is NOWHERE in the rulebook.

3. You have receivers going to the ground in the process of the catch.
No. You have a player who is going to the ground. See #2 for clarification

4. That is a player that has not completed 8.1.3.a.b.c.
Correct

5. When these receivers perform an act common to the game...and by rule, that is ANY ACT, they are no longer a receiver going to the ground
So lets change this to
"when these players perform and act common to the game, they are no longer a player going to the ground."
Because we have clarified that there is nothing in the rule book that differentiates between player and receiver.

6. As for this "and by rule, that is ANY ACT,"
A player does become a runner by performing any act common to the game, UNLESS he has not completed the act of catching the ball before he starts going to the ground.
Item 1: Player Going to the Ground.
If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

7. So, we can now clarify for you what the rule actually means.
A. If a player - Player being just a player (no other made up definition for him)
B. goes to the ground - meaning at some point the player goes from not on the ground to being on the ground
C. in the act of catching a pass - This means that if the player has not completed the catch process and somewhere from the beginning of the catch process to the completion of the catch process they are judged to being going to the ground.
Beginning - of the catch process starts from the first milisecond that the ball touches a players hand - Start of possessing the ball
Through - getting two feet down
To - Making an act common to the game

The only way that Dez caught the ball is if he had become a runner before he was judged to be going to the ground.

8. So, at what point do you say Dez was going to the ground?

LOL, all of that to disagree with receiver?

What else would an offensive player be in the process of catching a pass? Item 1 has to use player because 8.1.3 covers catches and interceptions, or did you fail to read that?

We are discussing the Dez play, you know where Dez is a receiver. Whether Player A is called a player or a receiver changes nothing in how the rule is applied, hell the rule could say a banana going to the ground and it doesn't change the fact that after 8.1.3.a.b.c is complete the banana becomes a runner.

Once again you are giving your opinion without rule support, where in the 2014 rule does it say that 8.1.3.a.b.c needs to be complete before going to the ground begins? Because the case plays sure say different, which is why you had to make up the entire magic lunge theory, you know the one that also has no rule support.

 

[BlindFaith]

LOL, all of that to disagree with receiver?

What else would an offensive player be in the process of catching a pass? Item 1 has to use player because 8.1.3 covers catches and interceptions, or did you fail to read that?

We are discussing the Dez play, you know where Dez is a receiver. Whether Player A is called a player or a receiver changes nothing in how the rule is applied, hell the rule could say a banana going to the ground and it doesn't change the fact that after 8.1.3.a.b.c is complete the banana becomes a runner.

Once again you are giving your opinion without rule support, where in the 2014 rule does it say that 8.1.3.a.b.c needs to be complete before going to the ground begins? Because the case plays sure say different, which is why you had to make up the entire magic lunge theory, you know the one that also has no rule support.

So you don't disagree with what I said I take it? And what is this nonsense about rule support? I quoted the actual rule itself and explained the rule itself.

So once again, do you agree with what I said? And if not, please enlighten us as to where you disagree. And can you please at least be somewhat coherent? Skip the ramblings. Just the factual and logical components. Like we've been doing.

 

[BlindFaith]

LOL, all of that to disagree with receiver?

What else would an offensive player be in the process of catching a pass? Item 1 has to use player because 8.1.3 covers catches and interceptions, or did you fail to read that?

We are discussing the Dez play, you know where Dez is a receiver. Whether Player A is called a player or a receiver changes nothing in how the rule is applied, hell the rule could say a banana going to the ground and it doesn't change the fact that after 8.1.3.a.b.c is complete the banana becomes a runner.

Once again you are giving your opinion without rule support, where in the 2014 rule does it say that 8.1.3.a.b.c needs to be complete before going to the ground begins? Because the case plays sure say different, which is why you had to make up the entire magic lunge theory, you know the one that also has no rule support.

And Dez isn't a receiver, he is a player. You go from player to runner. You don't go from player, to receiver to runner. Unless you have some other rule book you're looking at. And if you don't, STOP MAKING THINGS UP!!!!!

 

[blindzebra]

And Dez isn't a receiver, he is a player. You go from player to runner. You don't go from player, to receiver to runner. Unless you have some other rule book you're looking at. And if you don't, STOP MAKING THINGS UP!!!!!

Explain why it makes a difference? Does it change anything, or does it make the transition easier to understand.

Trolling 101, I can't fight against the substance of what is being said, so I will attack a minor detail that has no impact on the discussion.

 

[BlindFaith]

Explain why it makes a difference? Does it change anything, or does it make the transition easier to understand.

Trolling 101, I can't fight against the substance of what is being said, so I will attack a minor detail that has no impact on the discussion.

Did you read this?

7. So, we can now clarify for you what the rule actually means.
A. If a player - Player being just a player (no other made up definition for him)
B. goes to the ground - meaning at some point the player goes from not on the ground to being on the ground
C. in the act of catching a pass - This means that if the player has not completed the catch process and somewhere from the beginning of the catch process to the completion of the catch process they are judged to being going to the ground.
Beginning - of the catch process starts from the first milisecond that the ball touches a players hand - Start of possessing the ball
Through - getting two feet down
To - Making an act common to the game

The only way that Dez caught the ball is if he had become a runner before he was judged to be going to the ground.

8. So, at what point do you say Dez was going to the ground?

How can you not understand what this says? How? how? Unless English is not your first language. Maybe? Who knows.

Tell me how, after reading this, you can still say

"where in the 2014 rule does it say that 8.1.3.a.b.c needs to be complete before going to the ground begins?"

IT SAYS IT RIGHT IN THE VERY RULE THAT YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T AT ALL UNDERSTAND.

Trolling. Trolling is just spouting out nonsense that has no value in the discussion. Trolling is chest thumping and ridicule. Trolling is persisting with dialog that is in stark contrast with the actual truth.

Who has done that? Who deflects questions or flat out doesn't answer them? Who denies the overwhelming opinions from experts? Who continues to think they are right in light of the actual facts? Who makes up new rules on the fly?

You are simply in denial. This was an attempt at your intervention. But trying to have a rational discussion with someone beyond reason is simply hopeless. Hopeless.

 

[blindzebra]

So you don't disagree with what I said I take it? And what is this nonsense about rule support? I quoted the actual rule itself and explained the rule itself.

So once again, do you agree with what I said? And if not, please enlighten us as to where you disagree. And can you please at least be somewhat coherent? Skip the ramblings. Just the factual and logical components. Like we've been doing.

Mr. War and Peace throwing out rambling? No, you quoted the rules and then gave your usual misinterpretation of what they mean, all the time by focusing on the word receiver that has absolutely nothing to do with how one can interpret the rule.