CFZ Contract Aside, doesn't it Make More Sense for Zeke to Come After Pollard?

[SteveTheCowboy]

Pollard's YPC would come down dramatically IMO if we use him in the starter's role. The reason for this is that he would have to run between the tackles more to constrict the defense. One reason we have Elliott bash away is because it pulls defenders in tighter to the box, which makes it easier to pass. If Pollard's run distribution was 80 percent outside and 20 percent inside, then teams would play more heavily to the edges. Now, Pollard showed he can effectively run inside, but the primary reason for that is because most of his runs go outside. Elliott is the opposite, about 80 percent of his runs are between the tackles. Teams badly pinched down inside to stop our inside runs after the early-season success and we did a bad job of countering it. Some of that may have been because of Elliott's injury, though.

I still think our plan needs to be to play them both, Pollard in the slot and Elliott in the backfield. Then, Pollard coming across the formation on jet sweeps or fake jet sweeps keeps the defenses from pinching inside too much while the threat of Elliott up the middle keeps them from cheating outside the box to clog the passing lanes. Plus, we can motion Pollard into the backfield (and Elliott out) at times. It creates multiple ways that we can attack and gets Pollard more snaps that he'd get just subbing in for Elliott.

We also have to have the balls to admit Tony has never been a #1. Not saying he can't be. I just advise some dam caution about it. It's not too much to ask since it's the truth.

 

[Pass2Run]

Pollard's YPC would come down dramatically IMO if we use him in the starter's role. The reason for this is that he would have to run between the tackles more to constrict the defense. One reason we have Elliott bash away is because it pulls defenders in tighter to the box, which makes it easier to pass. If Pollard's run distribution was 80 percent outside and 20 percent inside, then teams would play more heavily to the edges. Now, Pollard showed he can effectively run inside, but the primary reason for that is because most of his runs go outside. Elliott is the opposite, about 80 percent of his runs are between the tackles. Teams badly pinched down inside to stop our inside runs after the early-season success and we did a bad job of countering it. Some of that may have been because of Elliott's injury, though.

I still think our plan needs to be to play them both, Pollard in the slot and Elliott in the backfield. Then, Pollard coming across the formation on jet sweeps or fake jet sweeps keeps the defenses from pinching inside too much while the threat of Elliott up the middle keeps them from cheating outside the box to clog the passing lanes. Plus, we can motion Pollard into the backfield (and Elliott out) at times. It creates multiple ways that we can attack and gets Pollard more snaps that he'd get just subbing in for Elliott.

I think we need to be successful passing to set up the run. If we do that, everything will be OK.

Pollard can run between the tackles, and the outside.

I'm not talking about an 80/20 split. I'm saying to basically split them 50/50.

 

[fivetwos]

I personally like Aaron Shampklin. He reminds me a bit of Pollard. Can catch, is explosive and shifty. I'm not a big fan of Malik Davis. You'd have to go watch some Harvard games. But he's a really smart player, deceptively good blocker for his size.

I was hoping Davis would come in and be a 3rd down type back that we haven't had since Dunbar.

Then I saw his open field speed, which isn't gonna cut it. I fully see why he wasn't drafted.

I'd like to add that dimension to the offense, but who knows if they even WANT to. Seems all about featuring Prescott as a passer.

 

[gimmesix]

I think we need to be successful passing to set up the run. If we do that, everything will be OK.

Pollard can run between the tackles, and the outside.

I'm not talking about an 80/20 split. I'm saying to basically split them 50/50.

I'd prefer we play Elliott about 70 percent of the snaps, and with Pollard on the field with him for about 50 percent of the snaps. With Pollard also subbing in for Elliott to give him a break, that means Pollard would be on the field for about 80 percent of the plays. Heavier use of Pollard doesn't have to have anything to do with giving Elliott fewer snaps.

 

[JoeKing]

I think there is something all of you are missing and not talking about. Because of our O-line leaking like a sieve. Zeke has been relegated to cleaning up the leaks to keep Dak upright. I honestly think there would not be much of a passing game without Zeke's ability to keep Dak upright. Pollard doesn't block as well as Zeke can, therefore Zeke gets more snaps. The priority on offense should be to fix the O-line. Doing that will facilitate seeing Zeke on the field less and Pollard more.

 

[Pass2Run]

I think there is something all of you are missing and not talking about. Because of our O-line leaking like a sieve. Zeke has been relegated to cleaning up the leaks to keep Dak upright. I honestly think there would not be much of a passing game without Zeke's ability to keep Dak upright. Pollard doesn't block as well as Zeke can, therefore Zeke gets more snaps. The priority on offense should be to fix the O-line. Doing that will facilitate seeing Zeke on the field less and Pollard more.

That's true. Zeke is a better blocker. So we'd have to be unpredictable to disguise our play calls better.

I'm not saying start Pollard every game. But generally speaking, our offense starts out strong then eventually teams figure us out. I'm just trying to find ways to keep teams from figuring us out. There's several things we can do. If Zeke goes down with an injury, someone has to step up anyway.

With all the talk of Pollard and Zeke being on the field at the same time, I'm somewhat concerned about our 3rd RB position.

We would be stupid to go into the season with just two of them. So hopefully Shampklin or Davis shows something or we could be up a creek unless we sign a veteran RB,

 

[Pass2Run]

I was hoping Davis would come in and be a 3rd down type back that we haven't had since Dunbar.

Then I saw his open field speed, which isn't gonna cut it. I fully see why he wasn't drafted.

I'd like to add that dimension to the offense, but who knows if they even WANT to. Seems all about featuring Prescott as a passer.

You should look at Shampklin. You have to watch some Harvard games, but he can be lethal, at times. If anyone is like Dunbar, it's him.

 

[J12B]

With everyone talking about Pollard getting more carries and being more involved, doesn't it make more sense for Zeke to come in after Pollard?

Why not use Pollard to wear teams down before we smash them with Zeke's fresh legs? Flip the script a little. In the past, we've brought in Pollard for clean up duty. I would like to see Zeke come in after Pollard has had 10-12 carries. Or specifically in the redzone.

This doesn't have to be all the time.

But given that both of our backs can legitimately start for us, I don't see why it's necessary to always start with Zeke.

I'm sure there are a few times they've started the game with Pollard, but I'm talking about getting momentum going for several series and then bringing in Zeke. I think it makes more sense to roll with Zeke inside the redzone as well, since he's a more powerful back.

Does anyone else think we should change the strategy and stop thinking along such traditional lines?

I get what they're trying to do, but I just think Zeke would be harder to handle if he came in on fresh legs. I think we'd see his YPC average rise, while Pollard's would likely decrease. But overall, I think this strategy would work better against some teams.

Also, not knowing who we'll start makes us slightly more difficult to prepare for, so this could change from week-to-week.

I'm a big Kellen Moore fan, and I know it's not all in his control, but I would like to see him push for this approach for some games.

I thought your reasoning was to market Pollard for free agency so that he could net us a comp pick. (That is if the front office doesn't plan on extending him).

But I like your idea of wearing down defenses as well. Makes sense.

 

[Pass2Run]

Pollard's YPC would come down dramatically IMO if we use him in the starter's role. The reason for this is that he would have to run between the tackles more to constrict the defense. One reason we have Elliott bash away is because it pulls defenders in tighter to the box, which makes it easier to pass. If Pollard's run distribution was 80 percent outside and 20 percent inside, then teams would play more heavily to the edges. Now, Pollard showed he can effectively run inside, but the primary reason for that is because most of his runs go outside. Elliott is the opposite, about 80 percent of his runs are between the tackles. Teams badly pinched down inside to stop our inside runs after the early-season success and we did a bad job of countering it. Some of that may have been because of Elliott's injury, though.

I still think our plan needs to be to play them both, Pollard in the slot and Elliott in the backfield. Then, Pollard coming across the formation on jet sweeps or fake jet sweeps keeps the defenses from pinching inside too much while the threat of Elliott up the middle keeps them from cheating outside the box to clog the passing lanes. Plus, we can motion Pollard into the backfield (and Elliott out) at times. It creates multiple ways that we can attack and gets Pollard more snaps that he'd get just subbing in for Elliott.

I already admitted his YPC would come down.

On the other hand, I think Zeke's would increase quite a bit.

We used this strategy with MBIII when we had Jones and Barber. Barber was obviously the better blocker, but he would come in later in games and in the redzone and clean up.

At first they couldn't seem to figure out that it worked better when Barber came in later on after Jones had been in for a while. Plus, Zeke would be in later in the games and be fresh when we may want to pass anyway if we get behind.

If we stick to the run too much with Zeke and are forced to pass later in the game, then Zeke may have to remain in for pass blocking purposes and we waste Pollard's opportunities for carries.

I like having them both in the game, at times, but I just think if you're splitting carries that it makes sense to switch up who starts, at least some games, and run Pollard first then Zeke on fresh legs against a tired defense.

It's not about #1 vs #2. I would like to see both backs eclipse 1,000 yards. The only way we do that is if Zeke comes in after Pollard.

 

[buybuydandavis]

With everyone talking about Pollard getting more carries and being more involved, doesn't it make more sense for Zeke to come in after Pollard?

Why not use Pollard to wear teams down before we smash them with Zeke's fresh legs? Flip the script a little. In the past, we've brought in Pollard for clean up duty. I would like to see Zeke come in after Pollard has had 10-12 carries. Or specifically in the redzone.

This doesn't have to be all the time.

But given that both of our backs can legitimately start for us, I don't see why it's necessary to always start with Zeke.

I'm sure there are a few times they've started the game with Pollard, but I'm talking about getting momentum going for several series and then bringing in Zeke. I think it makes more sense to roll with Zeke inside the redzone as well, since he's a more powerful back.

Does anyone else think we should change the strategy and stop thinking along such traditional lines?

I get what they're trying to do, but I just think Zeke would be harder to handle if he came in on fresh legs. I think we'd see his YPC average rise, while Pollard's would likely decrease. But overall, I think this strategy would work better against some teams.

Also, not knowing who we'll start makes us slightly more difficult to prepare for, so this could change from week-to-week.

I'm a big Kellen Moore fan, and I know it's not all in his control, but I would like to see him push for this approach for some games.

Pollard should be the between the 20s, 1st and 2nd down back. Zeke the 3rd down back, short yardage back, and red zone back.
Use Pollard on the field and on the downs where his speed and homerun ability are most useful.
Use Zeke where his blocking and between the tackles running is the most useful.

It's not complicated.

Zeke would be better late in the game. So would Pollard. Backs are super freaks in terms of stamina, and defenses wear down faster than they do. If you're trying to run out the game, maybe Zeke has the advantage in consistent positive yardage, down after down.

 

[Pass2Run]

Pollard should be the between the 20s, 1st and 2nd down back. Zeke the 3rd down back, short yardage back, and red zone back.
Use Pollard on the field and on the downs where his speed and homerun ability are most useful.
Use Zeke where his blocking and between the tackles running is the most useful.

It's not complicated.

Zeke would be better late in the game. So would Pollard. Backs are super freaks in terms of stamina, and defenses wear down faster than they do. If you're trying to run out the game, maybe Zeke has the advantage in consistent positive yardage, down after down.

I agree. The back who comes in 2nd is going to look like the best back, because the first one has done all the work.

It's like Zeke not getting credit for setting up Pollard's runs.

Really, Zeke does all the work and Pollard comes in and cleans up because Zeke set up his runs for him.

I"m suggesting we flip the script, and let Pollard start first. We're a RBBC team anyway. There's no use trying to hide it. Just show our hand and start the game with Pollard. It makes us harder to figure out. Plus, with Pollard, especially if they start him early on, or at least try to, he helps you keep teams honest because he can break a long run, so you have to respect the run. That helps Dak in passing situations. Or it could.

I hope Moore is really looking at his playbook, and thinking about how we can make our offense less predictable with the personnel that we have.

Last year, we became too predictable.

CouchCoach, I think it was, posted a thread about how teams figured out how we were beating them on the blitz, so they stopped blitzing to beat us, and it worked. We have to mix it up a little better out there. We have to have rules we go by, all the time, and some that we change from week to week.

This could also extend Zeke's career. And his value as a player. It's a win, win. You don't bench one of the best backs in the NFL, you just make him a team player, not a me player.

That has value.

We also need to pay attention to our #3 RB.

If Shampklin isn't it, we could be pretty thin there. But having watched some Harvard games, I do like him as a player. Smart, smart player.

 

[JoeKing]

That's true. Zeke is a better blocker. So we'd have to be unpredictable to disguise our play calls better.

I'm not saying start Pollard every game. But generally speaking, our offense starts out strong then eventually teams figure us out. I'm just trying to find ways to keep teams from figuring us out. There's several things we can do. If Zeke goes down with an injury, someone has to step up anyway.

With all the talk of Pollard and Zeke being on the field at the same time, I'm somewhat concerned about our 3rd RB position.

We would be stupid to go into the season with just two of them. So hopefully Shampklin or Davis shows something or we could be up a creek unless we sign a veteran RB,

I don't know you or how old you are but I remember in the '90s when the Cowboys were winning Super Bowls, they didn't have to out-scheme or be unpredictable. It didn't matter if teams watched tape or "figured us out". We still did what we do and ran over people. Larry Allen was famous for making train whistle sounds letting defenses know where the ball was about to be run. Being that good has its advantages so I still suggest fixing the O-line is a bigger priority rather than trying to be cute with the scheme as you are suggesting. Teams study tape and all offenses get figured out by the end of the season, so don't act like it's possible to prevent it. It's a far better plan to just simply be good enough that the other team knowing what we are about to do doesn't matter. I see Zeke being that guy in the 4th quarter running over people, not Pollard.

 

[fivetwos]

You should look at Shampklin. You have to watch some Harvard games, but he can be lethal, at times. If anyone is like Dunbar, it's him.

I will. Harvard though? At least we know he ain't dumb lol.

Whoever it is, I think it would be a nice dimension to the offense, but they seem to have no interest in that type of player.

He'll I'm even up for some looks with a fullback, and not necessarily a backup OL, who is no threat to catch a pass or run the ball.

I just think a run oriented offense is what would do the team some good, but it appears it's gonna be all about Dak and his arm.

 

[CowboyRoy]

With everyone talking about Pollard getting more carries and being more involved, doesn't it make more sense for Zeke to come in after Pollard?

Why not use Pollard to wear teams down before we smash them with Zeke's fresh legs? Flip the script a little. In the past, we've brought in Pollard for clean up duty. I would like to see Zeke come in after Pollard has had 10-12 carries. Or specifically in the redzone.

This doesn't have to be all the time.

But given that both of our backs can legitimately start for us, I don't see why it's necessary to always start with Zeke.

I'm sure there are a few times they've started the game with Pollard, but I'm talking about getting momentum going for several series and then bringing in Zeke. I think it makes more sense to roll with Zeke inside the redzone as well, since he's a more powerful back.

Does anyone else think we should change the strategy and stop thinking along such traditional lines?

I get what they're trying to do, but I just think Zeke would be harder to handle if he came in on fresh legs. I think we'd see his YPC average rise, while Pollard's would likely decrease. But overall, I think this strategy would work better against some teams.

Also, not knowing who we'll start makes us slightly more difficult to prepare for, so this could change from week-to-week.

I'm a big Kellen Moore fan, and I know it's not all in his control, but I would like to see him push for this approach for some games.

Its the last year we will have to deal with this Zeke problem. So in that light, let the cry baby start the game with the first carry. Then roll out the offense using Pollard all over the place. Just go with the hot hand after that. Cant be any more simple than that.

I certainly wouldnt overuse Pollard or give him 70% of the carries. 15-20 touches overall would be perfect. If we are blowing someone out, let Zeke plod his way on dives up the middle when it doesnt matter.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I would like Dallas to be able to pass to set up the run, and I think with Pollard in there, you have to respect the run a little more.

He can strike quicker and punish you if you don't account for him. Zeke doesn't have quite the burst to make teams pay for not accounting for the run, although you definitely have to account for Zeke, just not the same way.

Look, I'm appreciative of Zeke. I think he's a top 5-7 RB in the league, like all around back, one of the best. And he's still young, and I think he can bounce back.

I'm not bashing Zeke here, either. No nut rides or bashes.

But everyone says Pollard can't handle the carries.

What has he shown to make you think he can't?

We devalue Pollard's ability's so we can pay him like a #2 player, because we went all-in on Zeke. But Zeke's contract doesn't actually bind us to giving him the bulk of the starting carries. For the record, I'm for them sharing the carries 60/40 - 40/60 either way, switch it up each game.. But my main point is that you can come out of the gates running with Pollard and tire the defense, you just do it with speed and quickness rather than power.

Why be so predictable?

I'm arguing Zeke's style will have a more devastating effect if he comes in with fresh legs, as a battering ram against a tired defense.

Several backs have been used in this way in the past, and it has worked.

That said, I'm looking forward to some of our 12 personnel this year as well, especially with Pollard in and out the backfield, if they do indeed give him a larger role like they are saying.

There is no chance in the world that Zeke is a top 5-7 back. Hes not even in the top 15.

 

[Proof]

Pollard's YPC would come down dramatically IMO if we use him in the starter's role. The reason for this is that he would have to run between the tackles more to constrict the defense. One reason we have Elliott bash away is because it pulls defenders in tighter to the box, which makes it easier to pass. If Pollard's run distribution was 80 percent outside and 20 percent inside, then teams would play more heavily to the edges. Now, Pollard showed he can effectively run inside, but the primary reason for that is because most of his runs go outside. Elliott is the opposite, about 80 percent of his runs are between the tackles. Teams badly pinched down inside to stop our inside runs after the early-season success and we did a bad job of countering it. Some of that may have been because of Elliott's injury, though.

I still think our plan needs to be to play them both, Pollard in the slot and Elliott in the backfield. Then, Pollard coming across the formation on jet sweeps or fake jet sweeps keeps the defenses from pinching inside too much while the threat of Elliott up the middle keeps them from cheating outside the box to clog the passing lanes. Plus, we can motion Pollard into the backfield (and Elliott out) at times. It creates multiple ways that we can attack and gets Pollard more snaps that he'd get just subbing in for Elliott.

great post

 

[Otis313]

There is no chance in the world that Zeke is a top 5-7 back. Hes not even in the top 15.

Your hatred of Zeke is comical.
Do you think any of Your top 15 list could run anywhere with the porous o-line we had? Not.
Just because you don’t like Zeke because of his salary or because you wanted somebody else has clearly clouded your brain.
Zeke looked really good early in the year when we had some blocking.
Pollard is a good change of pace back but would never replace Zeke.
This forum is full of experts that constantly cry about our starting QB and starting RB. If you don’t like them, go away already.
They are both our starters and will be for some time.
I don’t think either one is HOF material but they are far from garbage.
We need a nasty o-line that will do what they want and smack the D in the mouth and bring back winning again.
It all starts and ends with the O-line, period.
Go Cowboys!

 

[CowboyRoy]

Your hatred of Zeke is comical.
Do you think any of Your top 15 list could run anywhere with the porous o-line we had? Not.
Just because you don’t like Zeke because of his salary or because you wanted somebody else has clearly clouded your brain.
Zeke looked really good early in the year when we had some blocking.
Pollard is a good change of pace back but would never replace Zeke.
This forum is full of experts that constantly cry about our starting QB and starting RB. If you don’t like them, go away already.
They are both our starters and will be for some time.
I don’t think either one is HOF material but they are far from garbage.
We need a nasty o-line that will do what they want and smack the D in the mouth and bring back winning again.
It all starts and ends with the O-line, period.
Go Cowboys!

Here is a good list: 2022 NFL Running Back Rankings and Tiers | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

I would actually put a handful of other young backs in front of Zeke. Pollard as well.

Zeke is a JAG at this point. He gets the yards that are blocked, nothing more, nothing less. He actually often misses the hole and cant bounce it outside. At this point in his career he is a slow, limited back that cant do much more then dive the ball up the middle.

With poor blocking like the 2nd half of last year he is almost useless. Teams were begging ZEke to hurt them and he couldnt do it when they went into the 2 deep zone.

And at his 18 million salary he is hurting the team both on the field and with his salary.

Yah, I cant stand him as a football player.

And yah, it all starts and ends with the Oline. Thats why RB's in general are of lower value. But even then, Pollard does much more with the football behind the same Oline.

Zeke's time is up buddy. NO harm in admitting he was a bad pick, bad resign, and an aging, plodding RB.

 

[Otis313]

Zeke is a JAG at this point. He gets the yards that are blocked, nothing more, nothing less. He actually often misses the hole and cant bounce it outside. At this point in his career he is a slow, limited back that cant do much more then dive the ball up the middle.

With poor blocking like the 2nd half of last year he is almost useless. Teams were begging ZEke to hurt them and he couldnt do it when they went into the 2 deep zone.

And at his 18 million salary he is hurting the team both on the field and with his salary.

Yah, I cant stand him as a football player.

And yah, it all starts and ends with the Oline. Thats why RB's in general are of lower value. But even then, Pollard does much more with the football behind the same Oline.

Zeke's time is up buddy. NO harm in admitting he was a bad pick, bad resign, and an aging, plodding RB.[/QUOTE
That’s funny as hell.
Obviously you have repeated this in your head many times and truly believe it.
If we had a o-line that could block, Zeke still has plenty in the tank. It would even make #2 pollard better because you could use him more. You wouldn’t have to worry about his non blocking *** as much.
This Cowboys team is what it is and we need to make the best of it. We still have talent and can win games but we need to address the horrible o-line first and things will get much better.
My opinion.
GO COWBOYS!

 

[gimmesix]

I already admitted his YPC would come down.

On the other hand, I think Zeke's would increase quite a bit.

We used this strategy with MBIII when we had Jones and Barber. Barber was obviously the better blocker, but he would come in later in games and in the redzone and clean up.

At first they couldn't seem to figure out that it worked better when Barber came in later on after Jones had been in for a while. Plus, Zeke would be in later in the games and be fresh when we may want to pass anyway if we get behind.

If we stick to the run too much with Zeke and are forced to pass later in the game, then Zeke may have to remain in for pass blocking purposes and we waste Pollard's opportunities for carries.

I like having them both in the game, at times, but I just think if you're splitting carries that it makes sense to switch up who starts, at least some games, and run Pollard first then Zeke on fresh legs against a tired defense.

It's not about #1 vs #2. I would like to see both backs eclipse 1,000 yards. The only way we do that is if Zeke comes in after Pollard.

Maybe we're splitting hairs, but I don't see what you are saying as necessary if we use Pollard in the slot. Our starting skill players would be Prescott, Elliott, Lamb, Pollard, Washington and Schultz. Elliott would be in the slot and Elliott in the backfield. This would be our base offense. At times, Pollard would motion into the backfield with Elliott. At times, he would motion into the backfield and Elliott would motion out. At times, we would reset the receivers to get Lamb into the slot. Many times, we would run Pollard across the formation before the half to either take or fake the sweep to keep the defense from pinching down too much on the inside run.

If he's out there in the slot 50 percent of the offense's snaps and subs directly for Elliott another 30 percent, he plays 80 percent of the offensive snaps, which is plenty. As I said, that would mean Elliott plays 70 percent of the offensive snaps. That's a good split and it utilizes two of our best offensive players on the field at the same time for at least half the offensive snaps. I don't even mind upping it (80 percent for Elliott, 60 percent for Pollard in slot and 20 as single back), but I don't know if we want Elliott out there quite that much.

I agree that it's not about #1 vs. #2, it's about using two of our top weapons at the same time. Elliott, when he was healthy last year, was one of our top weapons, and Pollard was too. It would be a travesty not to give both of them a whole lot of snaps, especially when our second receiver is a cheap castoff and our third is a third-round pick. Both might turn out to warrant lots of playing time, but we can't count on that. Right now, playing both Pollard and Elliott is the best strategy.