Cooper/Warmack

[burmafrd]

So quantifying athletic ability is a waste of time, but watching guys block air on imaginary defenders is hugely insightful and helpful? How well was he blocking that hypothetical imaginary linebacker in that drill? Was imaginary hypothetical linebacker a Bradie James or a Bruce Carter in terms of athletic ability? A lot of Alabama players have been over-drafted the last 3-4 years because they get accustomed to just bullying overwhelmed college opponents who aren't nearly as physically developed. Many have come to find out the NFL isn't nearly that easy when the playing field is leveled.

He was also towards the bottom of the heap in broad jump. When a guy is at the bottom rung of results in the two drills he participates in, and then refuses to participate in the rest, it's fair to question whether or not he's a marginal athlete.

and so the real expert speaks

(sarcasm just in case you missed it)

 

[tm1119]

So quantifying athletic ability is a waste of time, but watching guys block air on imaginary defenders is hugely insightful and helpful? How well was he blocking that hypothetical imaginary linebacker in that drill? Was imaginary hypothetical linebacker a Bradie James or a Bruce Carter in terms of athletic ability? A lot of Alabama players have been over-drafted the last 3-4 years because they get accustomed to just bullying overwhelmed college opponents who aren't nearly as physically developed. Many have come to find out the NFL isn't nearly that easy when the playing field is leveled.

He was also towards the bottom of the heap in broad jump. When a guy is at the bottom rung of results in the two drills he participates in, and then refuses to participate in the rest, it's fair to question whether or not he's a marginal athlete.

Let me know the next time a guard runs 40 yards down the field. Until then its an incredibly meaningless number. The fact that you are putting so much stock into numbers such as the 40 and broad jump for an offensive lineman proves your ignorance when it comes to evaluating a football player.

I still don't understand why people think the o-lineman in a ZBS have to sprint 10 yards to make a block or something. When in reality they are making maybe 2 or 3 shuffles max to get to the block. As long as the guard isn't a giant statue type who struggle to move much at all they will be fine. Its much more about being able to move in short(5-10 feet) quick bursts than anything.

 

[xwalker]

Let me know the next time a guard runs 40 yards down the field. Until then its an incredibly meaningless number. The fact that you are putting so much stock into numbers such as the 40 and broad jump for an offensive lineman proves your ignorance when it comes to evaluating a football player.

I still don't understand why people think the o-lineman in a ZBS have to sprint 10 yards to make a block or something. When in reality they are making maybe 2 or 3 shuffles max to get to the block. As long as the guard isn't a giant statue type who struggle to move much at all they will be fine. Its much more about being able to move in short(5-10 feet) quick bursts than anything.

Yes, measureables can be overvalued; however, they are far from irrelevant. A player that runs a fast 40 yard time was probably fast in the first 10 feet.

 

[Vintage]

Let me know the next time a guard runs 40 yards down the field. Until then its an incredibly meaningless number. The fact that you are putting so much stock into numbers such as the 40 and broad jump for an offensive lineman proves your ignorance when it comes to evaluating a football player.

I still don't understand why people think the o-lineman in a ZBS have to sprint 10 yards to make a block or something. When in reality they are making maybe 2 or 3 shuffles max to get to the block. As long as the guard isn't a giant statue type who struggle to move much at all they will be fine. Its much more about being able to move in short(5-10 feet) quick bursts than anything.

I'm pretty sure his point is about having a guard with enough athletic ability to get to the second level. Someone with enough athletic ability to handle the quicker interior pass rushers ... Not someone who is slow out of their stance and prone to getting beat by speed. That is easy to find.

You don't need to spend a high pick on someone like that. Those are easy to find every year.

 

[Rack]

Yes, measureables can be overvalued; however, they are far from irrelevant. A player that runs a fast 40 yard time was probably fast in the first 10 feet.

40 times are useless. If you want to know what a player ran in the first 10 feet... check what his time was for 10 feet. GOing to the 40 time first, then to their 10 time is a waste of... time.

 

[xwalker]

40 times are useless. If you want to know what a player ran in the first 10 feet... check what his time was for 10 feet. GOing to the 40 time first, then to their 10 time is a waste of... time.

They don't measure 10 feet times.

 

[jnday]

I'm pretty sure his point is about having a guard with enough athletic ability to get to the second level. Someone with enough athletic ability to handle the quicker interior pass rushers ... Not someone who is slow out of their stance and prone to getting beat by speed. That is easy to find.

You don't need to spend a high pick on someone like that. Those are easy to find every year.

Second level? Hell, I would be thrilled to have a guard that can just get a push on the first level.

 

[tm1119]

I'm pretty sure his point is about having a guard with enough athletic ability to get to the second level. Someone with enough athletic ability to handle the quicker interior pass rushers ... Not someone who is slow out of their stance and prone to getting beat by speed. That is easy to find.

You don't need to spend a high pick on someone like that. Those are easy to find every year.

Yeah cause we've just nailed it on these mid round o lineman that are apparently so easy to find. Why ever use a high pick on a guard or center when you can have crappy castoff veterans and mid/late round picks who can't even make it in the NFL? Our offensive line is awful because our management has this same theory....its not a premium position so lets just throw any big bodies there, they can get the job done. Guess what? That doesn't work. We've proven that....over and over again. Lets try something new please. I really don't care if its Cooper or Warmack, I just want some actual legit talent.
Unfortunately, I still don't see Jerry doing it which is the real problem in its self.

 

[SportsGuru80]

At this point I'd prefer Cooper...

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Agreed. And Gods only son, DeCastro, lasted until pick 24.

Yet, people are worried two guards are going in the top 17. Its not happening.

It was the same thing with the Cult of DeCastro last year. The hivemind mentality and groupthink on these guards is unreal.

Well, I'm one that usually agrees with the fact that really interior linemen don't present alot of value early in the draft, but now with all the numbers in I'm starting to think this will be that year where they will go higher cause of the absence of premium position talent in this particular draft.

Everything depends on how the Cowboys actually grade these guys, but I really think this might be the year that works out where the guards present value earlier in the draft. Will both go before we pick, probably not, but in this particular draft I would be willing to bet one will be gone.

Again, this comes from looking at this particular draft and not draft history, as every draft should be evaluated separately as last year there was alot more talent up top to move non premium positions down....this year, not at all.