Cooper/Warmack

[Vintage]

Now why didn't we think of that?

We tried. Brewster. He didn't pan out.

 

[burmafrd]

What would be sarcastic? That Warmack is short, fat slow footed phone booth guy? He's all those things. He's 6'2", plays with a huge gunt hanging over his belt and he ran a 5.5 among the slowest of all offensive linemen at the Combine. He's going to struggle in the NFL in space blocking athletic linebackers on the 2nd level, he's going to probably be a liability in the screen game and he's going to be a bad fit in any zone blocking system. He's not nearly the all around player that Steve Hutchinson was who could dominate in-line and on the move. Again, those phonebooth blocker skillsets are just generally not that rare. You can take a big slow college RT and move him inside and provide that skillset. The Ravens have bookend guards doing exactly that.

so you are smarter then all those PROs that say Warmack is a top player. Congratualtions on the days HUBRIS award

 

[tm1119]

What would be sarcastic? That Warmack is short, fat slow footed phone booth guy? He's all those things. He's 6'2", plays with a huge gunt hanging over his belt and he ran a 5.5 among the slowest of all offensive linemen at the Combine. He's going to struggle in the NFL in space blocking athletic linebackers on the 2nd level, he's going to probably be a liability in the screen game and he's going to be a bad fit in any zone blocking system. He's not nearly the all around player that Steve Hutchinson was who could dominate in-line and on the move. Again, those phonebooth blocker skillsets are just generally not that rare. You can take a big slow college RT and move him inside and provide that skillset. The Ravens have bookend guards doing exactly that.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. You're looking at the 40 time of guard and making a complete judgement of what type of player he is. That's real smart.....are you sure you're not a professional scout? Watch the slide drills and the pull drill from the combine. His feet are perfectly fine for a guard in any scheme.

 

[InmanRoshi]

so you are smarter then all those PROs that say Warmack is a top player. Congratualtions on the days HUBRIS award

I don't care about what internet draft dorks say about him, I care about what NFL front offices say about him, and they're going to say that a limited athlete guard who couldn't play tackle in his wildest dreams isn't worth a Top 20 pick ... just like they did with DeCastro last year, despite your insistence that "Pros" thought he was the bestestest guard who ever guarded in the history of the draft.

 

[burmafrd]

I don't care about what internet draft dorks say about him, I care about what NFL front offices say about him, and they're going to say that a limited athlete guard who couldn't play tackle in his wildest dreams isn't worth a Top 20 pick ... just like they did with DeCastro last year, despite your insistence that "Pros" thought he was the bestestest guard who ever guarded in the history of the draft.

well I just got done watching the combine on my DVR and you are full of crap on Warmack.

huge 'gunt'?
BS

Slow? Maybe in the 40 but you think that is important and that is BS.
His 10 which is far more important for a OL guy was only about .07 slower then cooper.

His footwork looked great.

And by the way all the guys at the NFL combine say the same.

So take your 'expert' opinion and take a hike

 

[TheCount]

We tried. Brewster. He didn't pan out.

Brewster was drafted to be a tackle, he just sucked at life. But to hear it told, you could just draft any fat tackle and have our very own Carl Nicks!

 

[Idgit]

Why is everybody getting so worked up over one poster's take on a player not even likely to ever be on our team? There are high picks every season who never make it in the NFL. He's making a good argument, even if you don't agree. What's the big deal?

 

[TheCount]

Why is everybody getting so worked up over one poster's take on a player not even likely to ever be on our team? There are high picks every season who never make it in the NFL. He's making a good argument, even if you don't agree. What's the big deal?

Because it's draft season? What else is there to talk about?

Don't look now but 99% of the players being discussed on these forums will not be on the Cowboys next year.

 

[DFWJC]

For our scheme, it would not surprise me if we have Cooper rated higher than Warmack.
But who knows for sure...

 

[Rack]

I don't care about what internet draft dorks say about him, I care about what NFL front offices say about him, and they're going to say that a limited athlete guard who couldn't play tackle in his wildest dreams isn't worth a Top 20 pick ... just like they did with DeCastro last year, despite your insistence that "Pros" thought he was the bestestest guard who ever guarded in the history of the draft.

If you're saying he won't be drafted in the top 20, I'll take that bet.

 

[DFWJC]

If you're saying he won't be drafted in the top 20, I'll take that bet.

:laugh2:
Me too!
However, I'm pretty sure he is not saying that.

 

[Gaede]

Why is everybody getting so worked up over one poster's take on a player not even likely to ever be on our team? There are high picks every season who never make it in the NFL. He's making a good argument, even if you don't agree. What's the big deal?

Happens every year.

Most people get caught up on one or two players, and then anyone who comes around and challenges the group-think is called out.

Pretty silly. IR is absolutely right about the guards.

More than likely, they will be there for us. Teams don't take guards in the top 15 unless they're truly exceptional or capable of playing tackle.

 

[Idgit]

Because it's draft season? What else is there to talk about?

Don't look now but 99% of the players being discussed on these forums will not be on the Cowboys next year.

I'm not commenting on the topic. I'm asking why so much vitriol aimed at IR who simply thinks the guy's overrated?

Go ahead and feel like the guy's an all-pro, but the topic of how any player might translate from college to the NFL should be fair game for a reasonable debate without resorting to pettiness.

This isn't particularly a moderation warning, just my commentary from readint the debate. I think IR makes an interesting and accurate point re: the number of good college players who are candidates for OG at the next level. It makes perfect sense, and it explains why the best OG prospects *do* typically drop on draft day when it comes down to it.

The other important contributing factor is that there are a number of players athletic enough to play OG in the college ranks who just don't have access to the top weight training and conditioning facilities. These guys can be readily found in the lower rounds and developed on the back burner for a year or two and make serviceable starters once the physical gap is closed. We haven't had much luck going this route ourselves, but other teams have, and that possibility hurts OGs when it comes to spending high picks on them overall in the first and second rounds. When the benefit of hitting on a player is simply getting to have him a year or two sooner than a guy you select in, say, the 4th or 5th round, the benefit isn't all that significant, relatively speaking. So these best OG prospects tend to drop as a result.

 

[Vintage]

Happens every year.

Most people get caught up on one or two players, and then anyone who comes around and challenges the group-think is called out.

Pretty silly. IR is absolutely right about the guards.

More than likely, they will be there for us. Teams don't take guards in the top 15 unless they're truly exceptional or capable of playing tackle.

Agreed. And Gods only son, DeCastro, lasted until pick 24.

Yet, people are worried two guards are going in the top 17. Its not happening.

 

[TheCount]

I'm not commenting on the topic. I'm asking why so much vitriol aimed at IR who simply thinks the guy's overrated?

Probably because he stated his opinion strongly and there are those that disagree, strongly. When you describe a guy as too short, too fat and common of skill then you're inviting an argument to the contrary and probably not a polite one.

As far as the value of drafting a guard, it's been proven over and over again that they make a difference and are rarely busts. 18th is not too high for the best guard in the draft, if you have a need there. I'm not stuck on guard only, there are a number of guys I'd be happy with at the spot. I just won't rule out a guard, because I see the value a good one could bring to this team.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Why is everybody getting so worked up over one poster's take on a player not even likely to ever be on our team? There are high picks every season who never make it in the NFL. He's making a good argument, even if you don't agree. What's the big deal?

It was the same thing with the Cult of DeCastro last year. The hivemind mentality and groupthink on these guards is unreal.

 

[BigD5]

I'm just now watching the O linemen drills from the combine. And I must say Cooper looks really great in drills. Very athletic and smooth on his pulls.

However I watched Warmack maul SEC defensive linemen week in and week out for 3 straight years.

I have not seen much tape on Cooper to be able to say how good he is as a player.

Just my two cents on these two guys. I think we'd be happy with either guy. On another note I'm not really seeing the Eric Fisher hype. His feet look clumsy to me and he stands too upright in the drills I've seen

 

[tm1119]

It was the same thing with the Cult of DeCastro last year. The hivemind mentality and groupthink on these guards is unreal.

See I'm not arguing that people are over reacting as to where the guards will get drafted. If you look at my posts I've been saying the idea that both guards will go in the top 18 is just silly. I only had a problem with your assessment of Warmack. It was misguided and quite frankly flat out ignorant. Why the heck would you care what your guard looks like in underwear or what his 40 time is? Not sure I can think of 2 more irrelevant things when assessing a guard. Watch the actual position drills at the combine and more importantly watch the game tape. Warmack does just about everything well that you could ask from a guard. Not saying he's going to be an all world player and hes certainly not the top 10 pick some people are making him out to be, but to call him stubby, fat, and a phone booth player is just flat out wrong.

 

[InmanRoshi]

See I'm not arguing that people are over reacting as to where the guards will get drafted. If you look at my posts I've been saying the idea that both guards will go in the top 18 is just silly. I only had a problem with your assessment of Warmack. It was misguided and quite frankly flat out ignorant. Why the heck would you care what your guard looks like in underwear or what his 40 time is? Not sure I can think of 2 more irrelevant things when assessing a guard. Watch the actual position drills at the combine and more importantly watch the game tape. Warmack does just about everything well that you could ask from a guard. Not saying he's going to be an all world player and hes certainly not the top 10 pick some people are making him out to be, but to call him stubby, fat, and a phone booth player is just flat out wrong.

So quantifying athletic ability is a waste of time, but watching guys block air on imaginary defenders is hugely insightful and helpful? How well was he blocking that hypothetical imaginary linebacker in that drill? Was imaginary hypothetical linebacker a Bradie James or a Bruce Carter in terms of athletic ability? A lot of Alabama players have been over-drafted the last 3-4 years because they get accustomed to just bullying overwhelmed college opponents who aren't nearly as physically developed. Many have come to find out the NFL isn't nearly that easy when the playing field is leveled.

He was also towards the bottom of the heap in broad jump. When a guy is at the bottom rung of results in the two drills he participates in, and then refuses to participate in the rest, it's fair to question whether or not he's a marginal athlete.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I've had the opinion, for a long time now, that Cooper was the best fit for us. I never liked Warmack for us because I felt as if he was only a RG. I never felt like he fit the Zone and I never thought he could be a guy who would play any other position, other then RG. That, to me, does not make him a good fit for us.

That was my opinion on the guy and it still is. Doesn't mean he's not a good player. Just that I thought Cooper was the better fit for us.