Counter Point: Sturm is wrong about our drafting

[Matts4313]

First and foremost, I really like Sturms articles. I generally think he is the best writer out there. Even when we disagree, I feel like he is reasonably unbiased and a great source of information.

I do not like this article. Here are a few bullet points why:

1. He sabotages our numbers by including a year that we had no 1st round pick, while most every other team did. Our first selection actually coming in the 3rd round.
2. He separates Jeff Ireland from the 'Present Group' but not Ciskowski. A man who was relieved of his duties after a short 4 year run.
3. He is ignoring that drafting is only one piece of if a player is successful - the second is coaching. Jason Garrett took over coaching for this team in 2010.
4. For some inexplicable reason, he excludes UDFA. As far as I am aware, the entire point of a draft is to add young talent to your team for the coaches to develop. Who cares if they come in the 6th or UDFA? We are still meeting our primary purpose - adding young talent to develop.

There are two legitimate ways to run this exercise if you are attempting to be objective when discussing the *CURRENT* regime. You start the data in year 2010 or in 2014. What happens when you do that? You erase 12 awful picks selected by Tom Cisowski and developed under Wade Phillips.

To me - he is being unfair and a bit ridiculous with comments like:

The Cowboys fan base has usually believed that the 1st round is where the Cowboys dominate with Dez Bryant, Travis Frederick, Tyron Smith, and Zack Martin. Unfortunately, according to this, they are only hitting about average.

Those 4 picks, along with Mo Clai and B Jones, are all the first round selections since Jason Garrett became coach. That is 4 current all pro players, our last years 1st and 1 bust. In no way is that 'average'. That is extremely above average. I challenge you to find 1 other team that has 4 all pro players in their last 6 first round picks. We are the cream of the crop. Even including that he is going by 'season starts' - - every single one of them has been a major contributor/starter since they were a rookie.

We can justify things to ourselves if we try, but the truth is that this current front office is not hitting the target often enough.

This is an unfair criticism as you are using drafts that were not done by "the current front office". If you want to properly confront the current front office, please redo your article starting in either 2010 or 2014. Then it will actually be 'objective'.

 

[texbumthelife]

It may help to link the article...

 

[reddyuta]

Great,we have awesome first RD selections.even i can look at up CBS rankings and do that,the challenge is to draft well in Rds 2-7 .We are literally the worst team in the NFL in finding starters from those RDs.a roster is 53 men and they cant all be from the first RD.UDFAs dont count because they are a true lottery,even if our scouts liked somebody they may not wish to come here. liked we learned with Rawls last year.even this year we were prepared to waste top draft picks(a 2,a,3 and a 6th rd pick) on a guy who wouldnt play for 2 years.thats not the way to build a good roster,you maximize Depth by making sound choices in Rd 2,3 and 4 ,we have consistently shown that we suck at this department.RDs 5,6, and 7 are utter wasteland and apart from couple of spare TEs we have nothing to show for it during those time periods.the only conclusion is either we suck at drafting from the scouts to FO or our coaches are the worst and they cant develop players. nomatter how yuo see it the only one holding up this roster together is Tony Romo and once he retires we will plummet to the dregs of the league.

 

[daveferr33]

Why not just post this in the actual thread discussing the article?

 

[CATCH17]

Great,we have awesome first RD selections.even i can look at up CBS rankings and do that,the challenge is to draft well in Rds 2-7 .We are literally the worst team in the NFL in finding starters from those RDs.a roster is 53 men and they cant all be from the first RD.UDFAs dont count because they are a true lottery,even if our scouts liked somebody they may not wish to come here. liked we learned with Rawls last year.even this year we were prepared to waste top draft picks(a 2,a,3 and a 6th rd pick) on a guy who wouldnt play for 2 years.thats not the way to build a good roster,you maximize Depth by making sound choices in Rd 2,3 and 4 ,we have consistently shown that we suck at this department.RDs 5,6, and 7 are utter wasteland and apart from couple of spare TEs we have nothing to show for it during those time periods.the only conclusion is either we suck at drafting from the scouts to FO or our coaches are the worst and they cant develop players. nomatter how yuo see it the only one holding up this roster together is Tony Romo and once he retires we will plummet to the dregs of the league.

Bravo Reddy.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Dez Bryant was drafted under Phillips

 

[waving monkey]

Great,we have awesome first RD selections.even i can look at up CBS rankings and do that,the challenge is to draft well in Rds 2-7 .We are literally the worst team in the NFL in finding starters from those RDs.a roster is 53 men and they cant all be from the first RD.UDFAs dont count because they are a true lottery,even if our scouts liked somebody they may not wish to come here. liked we learned with Rawls last year.even this year we were prepared to waste top draft picks(a 2,a,3 and a 6th rd pick) on a guy who wouldnt play for 2 years.thats not the way to build a good roster,you maximize Depth by making sound choices in Rd 2,3 and 4 ,we have consistently shown that we suck at this department.RDs 5,6, and 7 are utter wasteland and apart from couple of spare TEs we have nothing to show for it during those time periods.the only conclusion is either we suck at drafting from the scouts to FO or our coaches are the worst and they cant develop players. nomatter how yuo see it the only one holding up this roster together is Tony Romo and once he retires we will plummet to the dregs of the league.

literally the worst is hyperbole

 

[jday]

First and foremost, I really like Sturms articles. I generally think he is the best writer out there. Even when we disagree, I feel like he is reasonably unbiased and a great source of information.

I do not like this article. Here are a few bullet points why:

1. He sabotages our numbers by including a year that we had no 1st round pick, while most every other team did. Our first selection actually coming in the 3rd round.
2. He separates Jeff Ireland from the 'Present Group' but not Ciskowski. A man who was relieved of his duties after a short 4 year run.
3. He is ignoring that drafting is only one piece of if a player is successful - the second is coaching. Jason Garrett took over coaching for this team in 2010.
4. For some inexplicable reason, he excludes UDFA. As far as I am aware, the entire point of a draft is to add young talent to your team for the coaches to develop. Who cares if they come in the 6th or UDFA? We are still meeting our primary purpose - adding young talent to develop.

There are two legitimate ways to run this exercise if you are attempting to be objective when discussing the *CURRENT* regime. You start the data in year 2010 or in 2014. What happens when you do that? You erase 12 awful picks selected by Tom Cisowski and developed under Wade Phillips.

To me - he is being unfair and a bit ridiculous with comments like:


Those 4 picks, along with Mo Clai and B Jones, are all the first round selections since Jason Garrett became coach. That is 4 current all pro players, our last years 1st and 1 bust. In no way is that 'average'. That is extremely above average. I challenge you to find 1 other team that has 4 all pro players in their last 6 first round picks. We are the cream of the crop. Even including that he is going by 'season starts' - - every single one of them has been a major contributor/starter since they were a rookie.



This is an unfair criticism as you are using drafts that were not done by "the current front office". If you want to properly confront the current front office, please redo your article starting in either 2010 or 2014. Then it will actually be 'objective'.

Simply put, it is far more profitable for local mediots to bash the Cowboys, then be labeled a homer. Sad, but true.

 

[wileedog]

Simply put, it is far more profitable for local mediots to bash the Cowboys, then be labeled a homer. Sad, but true.

Anybody but Sturm I might agree with you. But he does his homework and is the first to praise the Cowboys when they do something right. If you are denying that than you haven't been reading his stuff.

Second of all the numbers don't lie. Some successful 1st rounders is great. It's the rest of the draft - the actual hard part - where the team flounders. The numbers from the article definitely pass the sniff test since one thing this team always lacks is the quality depth later rounds supply.

 

[davey999]

Then why aren't we better? The bottom line supports his argument.

 

[LocimusPrime]

Then why aren't we better? The bottom line supports his argument.

Good point. If we are so great at drafting, we should be a perennial playoff team

 

[CWR]

Great,we have awesome first RD selections.even i can look at up CBS rankings and do that,the challenge is to draft well in Rds 2-7 .We are literally the worst team in the NFL in finding starters from those RDs.a roster is 53 men and they cant all be from the first RD.UDFAs dont count because they are a true lottery,even if our scouts liked somebody they may not wish to come here. liked we learned with Rawls last year.even this year we were prepared to waste top draft picks(a 2,a,3 and a 6th rd pick) on a guy who wouldnt play for 2 years.thats not the way to build a good roster,you maximize Depth by making sound choices in Rd 2,3 and 4 ,we have consistently shown that we suck at this department.RDs 5,6, and 7 are utter wasteland and apart from couple of spare TEs we have nothing to show for it during those time periods.the only conclusion is either we suck at drafting from the scouts to FO or our coaches are the worst and they cant develop players. nomatter how yuo see it the only one holding up this roster together is Tony Romo and once he retires we will plummet to the dregs of the league.

Well I have to agree in that we rarely seem to draft any probowlers after round 1 but we do get some solid players.

Hitchens
Dlaw
Bailey
Gregory (i know, i haven't gave up yet)
Murray
Harris
J. SMITH - could be huge for us.

Leary
Collins. UDFA - but none the less

People exagerate our later round drafting results, in part because we often sit there scratching our heads wondering who the hell we took and why he isnt in our draft magazine.
Im not saying weve been awesome but all said our talent is the reason we are never written off.

* I apologize if any were before 2010, im going off memory but i think those are all Garret era drafts.

 

[CWR]

Good point. If we are so great at drafting, we should be a perennial playoff team

We are a perennial playoff team. Not just my opinion, best odds to win the east according to the sports books.

 

[zrinkill]

the current front office

Is code for Jerry Jones.

That is what that article is really about.

 

[Hoofbite]

Ireland left the organization. Tom took a new title and as we know around here job titles are meaningless.

He probably didn't include UDFA because this was an analysis of drafted players. Seems pretty simple.

He started in a year where Dallas didn't have a 1st, but how many teams have traded away a first over the following 6 drafts? Probably enough to make the sabotaging inconsequential.

 

[plasticman]

Well, I believe it is 2011 that ushered in a new era of talent acquisition with both Stephen Jones and Jason Garrett playing a far more significant role.

So let's take a look at the number of Pro Bowlers for each team starting with that draft.

Well, what do you know? There is a three way tie for 1st place with 9 Pro Bowl selection between Carolina, Seattle, and Dallas. Keep in mind, these are only players drafted between 2011 and 2016.

Now let's take a look at All Pro selections. The Cowboys are in 6th place among the 32 teams. That's in the top 20% among NFL teams. Not too shady.

Finally, we look at how many players drafted during that time that started a minimum of 32 games.

Gosh durn, guess what! The Cowboys are tied with two other teams for 2nd place with 8 players. Only the Seahawks have more with 9.

So......what's the problem?

 

[wileedog]

He started in a year where Dallas didn't have a 1st, but how many teams have traded away a first over the following 6 drafts? Probably enough to make the sabotaging inconsequential.

Well we didn't have a first because Jerry made one of the worst trades of his illustrious GM career here. If the front office deemed Roy Williams more valuable than any 1st round pick the team could make that year, that is part of the draft evaluation process IMO.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Great,we have awesome first RD selections.even i can look at up CBS rankings and do that,the challenge is to draft well in Rds 2-7 .We are literally the worst team in the NFL in finding starters from those RDs.a roster is 53 men and they cant all be from the first RD.UDFAs dont count because they are a true lottery,even if our scouts liked somebody they may not wish to come here. liked we learned with Rawls last year.even this year we were prepared to waste top draft picks(a 2,a,3 and a 6th rd pick) on a guy who wouldnt play for 2 years.thats not the way to build a good roster,you maximize Depth by making sound choices in Rd 2,3 and 4 ,we have consistently shown that we suck at this department.RDs 5,6, and 7 are utter wasteland and apart from couple of spare TEs we have nothing to show for it during those time periods.the only conclusion is either we suck at drafting from the scouts to FO or our coaches are the worst and they cant develop players. nomatter how yuo see it the only one holding up this roster together is Tony Romo and once he retires we will plummet to the dregs of the league.

My only problem with this is that you did not post it in a separate "counter-counter-point" thread.

 

[Frosty]

We are a perennial playoff team. Not just my opinion, best odds to win the east according to the sports books.

You call ONE playoff appearance in 6 years a perennial playoff team......REALLY..... must be an inside joke..

 

[Reality]

Simply put, it is far more profitable for local mediots to bash the Cowboys, then be labeled a homer. Sad, but true.

Especially if the local media writers, etc. have national media aspirations