Cowboys could give up 3rd and 4th round picks to move up for Patrick Peterson

[TheSport78]

Flawed logic IMO. You can never have too many good CB's. If they dont need the cap space, they wouldnt consider releasing Newman, and shouldnt

But they would because they SAVE money by cutting Newman in the offseason. The Cowboys would lose money if they cut Roy Williams, so I fully expect Roy to be back. Leonard Davis is on the fence as well, but Newman would definitely be cut if we draft PP IMO.

 

[Idgit]

Addressing the sideline topic: I still don't care a whit about draft position. I don't understand preferring the Cowboys lose for no other reason than to move up in the draft. The whole point of rooting for the team is to hope they win.

Moreover, we'll see who CLE gets at the #6 pick, and if there's not ultimately a better player left on the board at every position taken between 6 and 9 (where we ultimately pick). It's a safe bet that, somewhere in the draft, a better player than the one you might have taken had your wish for losses been granted was just waiting there for us, anyway. Me, I'd much rather the organization build competency in drafting than spend a single minute worrying about whether or not they're better off losing games.

If you can agree on a method for scoring talent by teams, and then compare that index to average draft position for the time frames covered by the current rosters, I bet you find that the teams that do the most effective job finding and developing talent aren't drafting early, anyway.

 

[dbair1967]

Um, no kidding. The entire premise of this thread is trading up to 5 or 6 to get Peterson, which would require approximately a 3rd round pick.

Its still stupid. Your crying about winning a regular season game against our most hated rival. Maybe the win wasnt pretty, who cares?

Besides, we never should have lost the Arizona game the week before. That was a fluke loss, at least as much as our win was a fluke in week 17.

 

[dbair1967]

But they would because they SAVE money by cutting Newman in the offseason. The Cowboys would lose money if they cut Roy Williams, so I fully expect Roy to be back. Leonard Davis is on the fence as well, but Newman would definitely be cut if we draft PP IMO.

So what if they save money? You act like he doesnt have a place here, which isnt true. Its worth it to cut some people if your in trouble with the cap and I dont think we will be. And Newman is still a very good player. He's certainly more of a sure thing than a rookie CB would be.

He's not getting cut, unless its one of those deals with a "wink wink" and they resign him the next day at a better cap number.

 

[InmanRoshi]

No, but you have to go by how productive he was in college, and what scouts say about the guy. We know PP has the measurable skill sets, but he has that "X factor." The same "X factor" that Dez possesses.

Jerry has been chasing that "X" factor for the last 4 years, except he calls it "Wow" factor. In the meantime he's let the offensive and defensive lines deteriorate. The result? 6-10 seasons.

Football is still won and lost in the trenches at the end of the day. The Steelers don't move up to chase X factor, they draft Maurkice Pouncey and he pushes your "X Factor" players around like a school yard bully stealing their lunch money.

 

[Doomsday101]

Jerry has been chasing that "X" factor for the last 4 years, except he calls it "Wow" factor. In the meantime he's let the offensive and defensive lines deteriorate. The result? 6-10 seasons.

I agree the line needs to be addressed and I would not give up the entire draft for Peterson but I would be willing to give up a 3rd. You may think that would destroy the draft for the Cowboys I don't

 

[InmanRoshi]

In this case, that 3rd round pick is the 71st pick in the draft. And you're combining that with the 9th pick in the draft. I'm not giving up the 9th player and 71st player in the draft for anything less than a dominating pass rusher or a quarterback. It's way too much to give up on a cornerback. So he takes away one WR? Big whoop. NFL offenses are too spread out now and the elite QBs are too good at just finding their 2nd, 3rd or 4th option.

 

[Doomsday101]

In this case, that 3rd round pick is the 71st pick in the draft. And you're combining that with the 9th pick in the draft. I'm not giving up the 9th player and 71st player in the draft for anything less than a dominating pass rusher or a quarterback. It's way too much to give up on a cornerback. So he takes away one WR? Big whoop. NFL offenses are too spread out now and the elite QBs are too good at just finding their 2nd, 3rd or 4th option.

And that is your view, it is not the only view. I would gladly take a guy who I feel is the best in the draft. We have come to the conclusion there are players at a give position you would take that trade, we just disagree on the player

 

[TheSport78]

Jerry has been chasing that "X" factor for the last 4 years, except he calls it "Wow" factor. In the meantime he's let the offensive and defensive lines deteriorate. The result? 6-10 seasons.

Football is still won and lost in the trenches at the end of the day. The Steelers don't move up to chase X factor, they draft Maurkice Pouncey and he pushes your "X Factor" players around like a school yard bully stealing their lunch money.

No. Jerry and the scouting department are just horrible at DRAFTING offensive linemen. Hence, why he had to dish out big, fat contracts to Flozell Adams, Marco Rivera and Leonard Davis. Look at the Colts' offensive line. Most of them are late rounders or undrafted free agents. I'm not buying the, "oh you have to draft OL in the first 2 rounds or you're neglecting the position."

 

[Verdict]

No. Jerry and the scouting department are just horrible at DRAFTING offensive linemen. Hence, why he had to dish out big, fat contracts to Flozell Adams, Marco Rivera and Leonard Davis. Look at the Colts' offensive line. Most of them are late rounders or undrafted free agents. I'm not buying the, "oh you have to draft OL in the first 2 rounds or you're neglecting the position."

The Colts also usually also draft a lot different kind of lineman than the average team. They seem to prefer a much more agile "athletic" lineman over a "mauler type". The fact that they can't run the ball when they need to seems to indicate that maybe they have it wrong.

 

[ChooChoo73]

I'll make any wager you want Peterson doesn't go top 3

I feel as certain he will as you do that he won't. That's why I love this draft stuff. I think it's a function of the doubts that exist with Bowers and his injury and Fairly and his consistency with his motor. I believe Gabbert, Dareus and Peterson will go in the top three. How exciting will it be watching the Cowboy draft room if he does start to get closer though.

 

[Verdict]

Addressing the sideline topic: I still don't care a whit about draft position. I don't understand preferring the Cowboys lose for no other reason than to move up in the draft. The whole point of rooting for the team is to hope they win.

Moreover, we'll see who CLE gets at the #6 pick, and if there's not ultimately a better player left on the board at every position taken between 6 and 9 (where we ultimately pick). It's a safe bet that, somewhere in the draft, a better player than the one you might have taken had your wish for losses been granted was just waiting there for us, anyway. Me, I'd much rather the organization build competency in drafting than spend a single minute worrying about whether or not they're better off losing games.

If you can agree on a method for scoring talent by teams, and then compare that index to average draft position for the time frames covered by the current rosters, I bet you find that the teams that do the most effective job finding and developing talent aren't drafting early, anyway.

On the other hand, IIRC, one year the Cowboys were playing the final game of the season, and the win would have pushed their record to 8 and 8 and they would have made the playoffs as the final wild card team. Dallas played a competitive game but lost the game that day.

I believe, with every fiber of my being, that the Cowboys (or maybe just Troy Aikman) knew the team was going to lose in the playoffs (and they would have) and he threw an "amateurish" interception to lose the game. I believe Troy knew the loss would enable them to have a better draft position and would enable them to have a better chance to win the super bowl in the years that followed.

Even if he threw the interception intentionally, I have no problem with it.

 

[Idgit]

On the other hand, IIRC, one year the Cowboys were playing the final game of the season, and the win would have pushed their record to 8 and 8 and they would have made the playoffs as the final wild card team. Dallas played a competitive game but lost the game that day.

I believe, with every fiber of my being, that the Cowboys (or maybe just Troy Aikman) knew the team was going to lose in the playoffs (and they would have) and he threw an "amateurish" interception to lose the game. I believe Troy knew the loss would enable them to have a better draft position and would enable them to have a better chance to win the super bowl in the years that followed.

Even if he threw the interception intentionally, I have no problem with it.

Troy never threw a football game. Ever. We can agree to disagree on it, but it's not even worth debating.

You just need to look at the Cardinals from a few years back, or GB last year, to see that a team on the borderline of not making the playoffs can have an impact if they get in there. You never know what might happen and when a team can catch fire.

 

[DFWJC]

Jerry has been chasing that "X" factor for the last 4 years, except he calls it "Wow" factor. In the meantime he's let the offensive and defensive lines deteriorate. The result? 6-10 seasons.

Football is still won and lost in the trenches at the end of the day. The Steelers don't move up to chase X factor, they draft Maurkice Pouncey and he pushes your "X Factor" players around like a school yard bully stealing their lunch money.

Completely agree about strengthening tis team in the trenches.

As for the "6-10 seasons" comment..I think you meant one "season".
Three years prior to that they averaged 11-5...which is very, very good.

I digress though....you're main point about investing in our lines is absolutely right.

I hope Jerry et al keeps focued and does it compared to continuously getting distracted (like a small child) by the bright shiney objects.

 

[Verdict]

Troy never threw a football game. Ever. We can agree to disagree on it, but it's not even worth debating.

You just need to look at the Cardinals from a few years back, or GB last year, to see that a team on the borderline of not making the playoffs can have an impact if they get in there. You never know what might happen and when a team can catch fire.

What the Cardinals did ten years after I believe the Cowboys tanked a game is not really relevant to this discussion. It is a fact the Cowboys lost that game. The only real issue is did Troy and the rest of the cowboys organization "not really mind" losing the game and tank it for the pick, or not. But the result WAS that the Cowboys got a higher pick. That is a fact.

 

[dbair1967]

Jerry has been chasing that "X" factor for the last 4 years, except he calls it "Wow" factor. In the meantime he's let the offensive and defensive lines deteriorate. The result? 6-10 seasons.

Football is still won and lost in the trenches at the end of the day. The Steelers don't move up to chase X factor, they draft Maurkice Pouncey and he pushes your "X Factor" players around like a school yard bully stealing their lunch money.

The Steelers OL hasnt been very good for years, not sure they are that good of an example.

Its just something to bellyache about. If we had used 1st round picks on OL and DL, I'm sure you and others would complain about "not trying hard enough to get difference makers

We had one bad season. Quit acting like we've been repeating the Dave Campo era since 2003. The problem was the HC and a complete lack of focus, attention to detail and lousy practice habits. Sure we need some upgrades here and there, but there is alot of talent on this team.

 

[dbair1967]

On the other hand, IIRC, one year the Cowboys were playing the final game of the season, and the win would have pushed their record to 8 and 8 and they would have made the playoffs as the final wild card team. Dallas played a competitive game but lost the game that day.

I believe, with every fiber of my being, that the Cowboys (or maybe just Troy Aikman) knew the team was going to lose in the playoffs (and they would have) and he threw an "amateurish" interception to lose the game. I believe Troy knew the loss would enable them to have a better draft position and would enable them to have a better chance to win the super bowl in the years that followed.

Even if he threw the interception intentionally, I have no problem with it.

This has to be the worst post ever in this forum. Not is it just ridiculously stupid as an idea, its factually wrong.

Aikman went out with the intention to win every game, every week. He was driven by it.

And just as fyi, the game you are referring to was vs the NYG in 1999, we were 7-8 and had to win to make the playoffs, and we won the game.

If you are referring to 1990, Aikman was injured and missed the final game of the season. We lost to Atlanta with Babe Laufenberg at QB.

 

[dbair1967]

What the Cardinals did ten years after I believe the Cowboys tanked a game is not really relevant to this discussion. It is a fact the Cowboys lost that game. The only real issue is did Troy and the rest of the cowboys organization "not really mind" losing the game and tank it for the pick, or not. But the result WAS that the Cowboys got a higher pick. That is a fact.

No, it isnt fact. None of what posted is remotely close to being true.

You either have a bad recollection of something, or completely made this up.