Cowboys defense for 2015

[Bluefin]

1st rd pick FS Gerod Holliman Louisville, 14xINTs thus far this season (need we say more?)

I'm tired of trying to build the defense back to front.

We need more pass rush, especially from the defensive ends.

Get rid of Anthony Spencer, George Selvie, Nick Hayden and Terrell McClain.

We need some upgrades.

 

[ghst187]

I'm tired of trying to build the defense back to front.

We need more pass rush, especially from the defensive ends.

Get rid of Anthony Spencer, George Selvie, Nick Hayden and Terrell McClain.

We need some upgrades.

I don't disagree at all, but I suspect that, once again, the DLs/DEs that we want will get taken before we pick and leave us with some of the top DBs still on the board, like PJ Williams and Holliman if he declares (which he will, no way his stock will get higher cuz he ain't getting 15 INTs next year). And if that's the scenario, I'd have to go with the BDPA (Best Defensive Player Available).
But anyway, get ready to be disappointed.

 

[Bluefin]

I don't disagree at all, but I suspect that, once again, the DLs/DEs that we want will get taken before we pick and leave us with some of the top DBs still on the board, like PJ Williams and Holliman if he declares (which he will, no way his stock will get higher cuz he ain't getting 15 INTs next year). And if that's the scenario, I'd have to go with the BDPA (Best Defensive Player Available).
But anyway, get ready to be disappointed.

It's looking like a nice class of pass rushing prospects, but you're right, they do get gobbled up quick.

Hopefully, the team can try to cover itself by adding a defensive end in free agency.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I've never understood why that site loves Anthony Spencer so much.

Going by their stats, Spencer has four games this year wear he had just 1 tackle.

He graded above average, higher than +1.0, in two of them.

Spencer was given a +2.1 pass rush grade for the Jacksonville game while generating only 1 QB hurry in 17 pass rush snaps.

They graded him +0.8 in run defense for the Philly game. He had 2 TFLs, but he lost contain on multiple occasions and those were the only tackles he made in the game.

That's very generous.

Yeah, good question.

I think part of it is a lack of bad plays on his part.

For example he may not get a tackle on a particular play, but he holds the edge and doesn't do anything bad.

On the same play Hayden gets shoved 6 yards off the line of scrimmage and gets a negative for the play.

I think for the most part Spencer is fundamentally sound on running plays, thus avoiding a lot of negatives, which means he only needs a few positives here and there to garner a decent rating.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I'm tired of trying to build the defense back to front.

We need more pass rush, especially from the defensive ends.

Get rid of Anthony Spencer, George Selvie, Nick Hayden and Terrell McClain.

We need some upgrades.

Certainly two of those guy won't be here next season. I don't think all four will be cleansed in one offseason.

 

[cowboys1981]

I think we've made an attempt to build the Dline from the DT spot on out. We added McClain, Brent, Melton and slid Crawford inside.

I would sign DE Cliff Avril and have him play opposite of Lawrence.

If we can find more quality pass rushers via draft or FA let's go for it. Our LB's and secondary will look alot better for it.

I know Hayden is one of RM' favorite players but he's not the answer for the 1DT spot. I hope if Brent gets his chance he anchors his spot and draws double teams. Only having to use one lineman on Hayden allows that interior lineman to slide over and help block our 3DT (Crawford n Melton) or it allows that lineman to get to the second level and make blocks on our LBers.

 

[Bluefin]

Yeah, good question.

I think part of it is a lack of bad plays on his part.

For example he may not get a tackle on a particular play, but he holds the edge and doesn't do anything bad.

On the same play Hayden gets shoved 6 yards off the line of scrimmage and gets a negative for the play.

I think for the most part Spencer is fundamentally sound on running plays, thus avoiding a lot of negatives, which means he only needs a few positives here and there to garner a decent rating.

Yes and no on the last part, IMO.

Anthony Spencer has always done well in his career when offenses run towards him.

But, I've long felt Spencer was pretty quick to abandon contain if the run went elsewhere.

Spencer would always chase the football, and if it went away from him, he'd go after it.

He'd get in on a lot of plays doing that, but it also left cut back lanes that sometimes got exploited.

When Victor Butler was here that was one of the big differences in their games I noticed.

Butler would stay put and try to maintain his gap no matter where the run went.

 

[Bluefin]

Certainly two of those guy won't be here next season. I don't think all four will be cleansed in one offseason.

Do not kill my buzz!

I can only hope the team has seen enough Anthony Spencer and George Selvie, there's no upside remaining with either player and it's time to let them go.

I know Rod Marinelli loves Nick Hayden, but he's better served as a rotation player and how hard can it be to find someone better?

We should have Josh Brent and Ken Bishop at NT next year plus any other players who might get signed or drafted. Hayden might get re-signed in free agency and be in the mix, but I just don't think he can offer Brent's strength or Bishop's upside.

And Terrell McClain will have his work cut out for him keeping a roster spot.

Besides the NTs above, Davon Coleman, Chris Whaley and Amobi Okoye should all be competing for spots along with any new players that get added.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I would sign DE Cliff Avril and have him play opposite of Lawrence.

For the difference in cost I don't think Avril is enough of an upgrade over Mincey.

Avril 544 snaps +8.5 PFF grade 5 sacks, 9 QB hits and 31 pressures for a cost of $7,000,000 plus $2,250,000 in signing bonus.

Mincey 554 snaps +9.8 PFF grade 3 sacks, 6 QB hits and 28 pressures for a 2015 cost of $1,500,000 plus $250,000 signing bonus.

Avril is a little better pass rusher. Mincey is better vs the run.

Avril would need to come at a price that is a heck of a lot less than what he's making this season.

 

[cowboys1981]

For the difference in cost I don't think Avril is enough of an upgrade over Mincey.

Avril 544 snaps +8.5 PFF grade 5 sacks, 9 QB hits and 31 pressures for a cost of $7,000,000 plus $2,250,000 in signing bonus.

Mincey 554 snaps +9.8 PFF grade 3 sacks, 6 QB hits and 28 pressures for a 2015 cost of $1,500,000 plus $250,000 signing bonus.

Avril is a little better pass rusher. Mincey is better vs the run.

Avril would need to come at a price that is a heck of a lot less than what he's making this season.

I'm assuming he won't break the bank and I'd still keep Mincey and rotate these guys. We can use as many pass rushers on 3rd down as possible.

 

[Bluefin]

I would sign DE Cliff Avril and have him play opposite of Lawrence.

For the difference in cost I don't think Avril is enough of an upgrade over Mincey.

Avril would need to come at a price that is a heck of a lot less than what he's making this season.

Cliff Avril would definitely have to take a big cut in base salary in order to sign with Dallas, but I'd be interested in exploring this option.

He could be a solid rotation player in this scheme.

Jeremy Mincey has been a huge positive this season, most of us were lukewarm at best when he came aboard. But Mincey is probably going to be a reserve next year however the DE position shakes itself out.

I like him in a reserve role where he can play on both sides and move inside on some passing downs.

DeMarcus Lawrence can probably be a starter next year on either side and that flexibility provides some options when looking at free agents and draft prospects.

Besides Avril, Jabaal Sheard and Jerry Hughes are some other free agent options to consider.

And we shouldn't rule out the team trying to sign Brian Orakpo to a deal like Henry Melton's, either.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Cliff Avril would definitely have to take a big cut in base salary in order to sign with Dallas, but I'd be interested in exploring this option.

He could be a solid rotation player in this scheme.

Jeremy Mincey has been a huge positive this season, most of us were lukewarm at best when he came aboard. But Mincey is probably going to be a reserve next year however the DE position shakes itself out.

I like him in a reserve role where he can play on both sides and move inside on some passing downs.

DeMarcus Lawrence can probably be a starter next year on either side and that flexibility provides some options when looking at free agents and draft prospects.

Besides Avril, Jabaal Sheard and Jerry Hughes are some other free agent options to consider.

And we shouldn't rule out the team trying to sign Brian Orakpo to a deal like Henry Melton's, either.

Hughes is good. But he's going probably going to get a very good contract.

 

[Bluefin]

Hughes is good. But he's going probably going to get a very good contract.

Probably.

If we want a good player in free agency we will more than likely have to overpay in order to get him.

That's life in the NFL.

If the pro personnel department signs off Jerry Hughes, I'd rather pay up for a good edge rusher than go the cheap route and hope some reclamation project pays off.

 

[KingintheNorth]

You have to rebuild the defense. Have to move on from age and underachievers.

D Line
Let George Selvie, Anthony Spencer, and Nick Hayden walk
Cap casualties: Jeremy Mincey, Terrell McClain, and Amobi Okoye (frees up $3M in cap room)
Keep Henry Melton and restructure $9M base into bonus (potential to free up $4M in cap room)
Bring back Demarcus Lawrence, Tyrone Crawford, Josh Brent, Jack Crawford, Ben Gardner, Ken Bishop, Davon Coleman
Free Agent: Jason Pierre Paul (age 26) NY Giants
Draft: Danny Shelton DT Washington or Malcolm Brown DT Texas

Linebackers
Let Bruce Carter and Justin Durant walk. *Willing to re-sign Durant if cheap 1- or 2-year deal
Cap casualties: Dekoda Watson (frees up $1.25M)
Re-sign Rolando McClain
Bring back Sean Lee (restructure possibility), Anthony Hitchens, Kyle Wilber, Will Smith
Free Agent: K.J. Wright (age 26) Seattle
Draft: late round depth

Secondary
Explore trading Morris Claiborne (change of scenery)
Cap casualties: Brandon Carr (June 1st cut frees up $8M) Jakar Hamilton and Jeff Heath (frees up approx. $1.2M)
Re-sign Sterling Moore
Bring back Orlando Scandrick, J.J. Wilcox, Barry Church, Tyler Patmon
Free Agent: Chris Culliver (age 27) San Francisco
Draft: Gerod Holliman FS Louisville, Josh Shaw CB USC
* I would let Sterling Moore, Chris Culliver, and Claiborne (if not traded) battle for the starting CB job opposite Scandrick. I would also have Church and Wilcox slug it out for the SS job.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I'm tired of trying to build the defense back to front.

Not trying to defend the Cowboys, but they did draft Crawford and DLaw high the last 3 drafts. The highest DB drafted during that wime was Wilcox in the 3rd.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

You have to rebuild the defense. Have to move on from age and underachievers.

D Line
Let George Selvie, Anthony Spencer, and Nick Hayden walk
Cap casualties: Jeremy Mincey, Terrell McClain, and Amobi Okoye (frees up $3M in cap room)
Keep Henry Melton and restructure $9M base into bonus (potential to free up $4M in cap room)
Bring back Demarcus Lawrence, Tyrone Crawford, Josh Brent, Jack Crawford, Ben Gardner, Ken Bishop, Davon Coleman
Free Agent: Jason Pierre Paul (age 26) NY Giants
Draft: Danny Shelton DT Washington or Malcolm Brown DT Texas

Linebackers
Let Bruce Carter and Justin Durant walk. *Willing to re-sign Durant if cheap 1- or 2-year deal
Cap casualties: Dekoda Watson (frees up $1.25M)
Re-sign Rolando McClain
Bring back Sean Lee (restructure possibility), Anthony Hitchens, Kyle Wilber, Will Smith
Free Agent: K.J. Wright (age 26) Seattle
Draft: late round depth

Secondary
Explore trading Morris Claiborne (change of scenery)
Cap casualties: Brandon Carr (June 1st cut frees up $8M) Jakar Hamilton and Jeff Heath (frees up approx. $1.2M)
Re-sign Sterling Moore
Bring back Orlando Scandrick, J.J. Wilcox, Barry Church, Tyler Patmon
Free Agent: Chris Culliver (age 27) San Francisco
Draft: Gerod Holliman FS Louisville, Josh Shaw CB USC
* I would let Sterling Moore, Chris Culliver, and Claiborne (if not traded) battle for the starting CB job opposite Scandrick. I would also have Church and Wilcox slug it out for the SS job.

I don't see cutting Mincey, not for the pittance he's being paid next season and given that he's done a decent job this season.

JPP isn't giving the G-men anything more than what Mincey is giving the Cowboys.

 

[Bluefin]

Not trying to defend the Cowboys, but they did draft Crawford and DLaw high the last 3 drafts. The highest DB drafted during that wime was Wilcox in the 3rd.

That's true.

The team has started to rectify the situation and I have every reason to believe the DL rebuild will continue.

But they recently allocated tremendous financial and draft resources at the cornerback position.

Brandon Carr cost a ton and Morris Claiborne required a 1st and 2nd to obtain.

And I'm not against trying to add talent in the secondary or spending to do it, I just hope the front with take precedence.

 

[StarBoyz83]

I think one problem with this upcoming draft most teams are going for mostly defense. Theres no great qbs or wrs in this draft that stand out.

 

[Bluefin]

D Line
Let George Selvie, Anthony Spencer, and Nick Hayden walk

Yes!

Cap casualties: Jeremy Mincey, Terrell McClain, and Amobi Okoye (frees up $3M in cap room)

Jeremy Mincey has been an awesome signing, there's no reason whatsoever to consider releasing him.

I don't want Terrell McClain and it's hard to expect anything from Amobi Okoye, but both should go to training camp next year and compete for spots.

And it wouldn't be $3M in cap savings unless you wanted to keep only 50 players on the roster.

Whenever you consider axing a player, you have to add a new minimum salary (2015 1st yr salary is $510K) in to replace him under the top 51.

So while you would gain $3.07M in the 3 moves you suggested, it would probably net around $1.54M after adding three new players to replace them.

Keep Henry Melton and restructure $9M base into bonus (potential to free up $4M in cap room)

I let Henry Melton walk.

Tyrone Crawford is the starter and will only get better and there's plenty of depth prospects on hand that deserve a look.

Even if Melton's 2015 base salary ($9M) was lowered by converting most of it into a signing bonus, it wouldn't do anything about his future base salaries ($7.5M in '16 and '17).

Bring back Demarcus Lawrence, Tyrone Crawford, Josh Brent, Jack Crawford, Ben Gardner, Ken Bishop, Davon Coleman

Absolutely!

Free Agent: Jason Pierre Paul (age 26) NY Giants

I'd rather try to get Jerry Hughes, Cliff Avril or Jabaal Sheard.

Draft: Danny Shelton DT Washington or Malcolm Brown DT Texas

Both will probably be gone before Dallas would consider them, but we'll just have to wait and see.

I'd love to get a DE early on to supply more edge rush, but I hope we add someone who can help in free agency so we don't get painted into a corner.

 

[KingintheNorth]

Jeremy Mincey has been an awesome signing, there's no reason whatsoever to consider releasing him.

I guess we have different definitions of awesome. He's a one trick pony IMO and would easily move on from him. Of course, I would have never signed him in the first place.

And it wouldn't be $3M in cap savings unless you wanted to keep only 50 players on the roster.

Whenever you consider axing a player, you have to add a new minimum salary (2015 1st yr salary is $510K) in to replace him under the top 51.

So while you would gain $3.07M in the 3 moves you suggested, it would probably net around $1.54M after adding three new players to replace them.

Yes, I realize that. The numbers are approximate. Carr's $8M on June 1st is more than enough wiggle room to sign all of the draft picks who will most likely make up a lot of last few salaries of the 51.

I let Henry Melton walk.

Tyrone Crawford is the starter and will only get better and there's plenty of depth prospects on hand that deserve a look.

Even if Melton's 2015 base salary ($9M) was lowered by converting most of it into a signing bonus, it wouldn't do anything about his future base salaries ($7.5M in '16 and '17).

Most of the recent contracts the Cowboys have signed players to have been designed to be restructured. Melton's contract definitely has that same appearance.

As far as Crawford, his size and versatility is valuable and I could see him teaming with Melton inside on passing downs.

I'd rather try to get Jerry Hughes, Cliff Avril or Jabaal Sheard.

Sheard and Hughes are RDE's only IMO. JPP is around 280 lbs., has long arms, and I'm still a big believer in his athleticism and ability. I'd like to see what Marinelli could do with him as well. Avril is lighter than I'd like. He's also 29 and my goal in free agency is that I want to get 5 years out of a player if I'm going to spend signing bonus money on. If Avril is willing to sign on the cheap and for 2 years, I'd consider it.

Both will probably be gone before Dallas would consider them, but we'll just have to wait and see.

Not that they are the definitive source but CBSports.com (NFLDraft Scout.com) has them currently ranked as the 22nd and 40th best players in the draft. Even if that's close, I realize a lot can and will change between now and the draft, but for today's conversation neither of those players would be out of the realm of possibility for us.