Cowboys defense for 2015

[Kaiser]

People are so stuck on the flashes JPP showed 3 years ago. Since then, excuses have been made for why he isn't playing up to what he did that year. Its always been "he's been hurt". The guy is solid against the run but he's not a great pass rusher.

If JPP was the guy from 3 years ago it would be impossible to acquire him. I'm not thinking about that version of JPP, I'm thinking of the version that played well against us two weeks ago and beat Tyron Smith several times. Even that recent version is a considerable upgrade from what we have now.

Add DLaw and a #1 pick to the November 2014 version of JPP and you have the pass rush this team is critically missing.

 

[BlindFaith]

The numbers do not suggest much difference between JPP and Mincey.

If you have information to the contrary, feel free to share it.

JPP - 54 combined tackles - 8 tackles for loss - 5sacks - 6 hurries - 4 stuffs
Mincey - 26 combined tackles - 4 tackles for loss - 3 sacks - 13 hurries - 2 stuffs

JPP has double the tackles, double the tackles for loss, almost double the sacks, double the stuffs

Mincey does have double the hurries though.

To me the numbers suggest a big (double) difference.

 

[BlindFaith]

The DEs crash down inside dozens of times per game. That's not an opinion, it's on tape.

Why they do it or how the surrounding players should react is opinion, but the fact that they do it is not opinion.

Please share the tape and we can break it down. Crashing down blindly as you suggest is not how it's supposed to be done. Maintaining leverage and outside contain is a defensive ends responsibility.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Mincey has only played 74.6% of the snaps JPP has. So, you need a stat correction to better reflect the difference.

Mincey's numbers in parentheses.
74.6% of 54 tackles is 40 (26) tackles.
74.6% of 8 tackles for a loss is 5.6 (4) tackles for a loss.
74.6% of 5 sacks is 3.7 (3) sacks.
74.6% of 6 hurries is 4.4 (13) hurries.
74.6% of 4 stuffs is 2.9 (2) stuffs

The first thing I would like to say is you shouldn't compare JPP to Mincey. They are not the same class of player. Why don't you just compare Ware to Ebenezer Ekuban?

That said, QB pressure wise per snap they aren't that far apart. (JPP's pash rush has dropped off quite a bit) As a run stopper, clearly JPP is far more dominate.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

JPP - 54 combined tackles - 8 tackles for loss - 5sacks - 6 hurries - 4 stuffs
Mincey - 26 combined tackles - 4 tackles for loss - 3 sacks - 13 hurries - 2 stuffs

JPP has double the tackles, double the tackles for loss, almost double the sacks, double the stuffs

Mincey does have double the hurries though.

To me the numbers suggest a big (double) difference.

Oh, you conveniently forgot the number of snaps:

JPP 720

Mincey 544

So if normalize the number of snaps, then Mincey would be much closer.

And then you figure in the cost of each player, JPP $4.6 mil and Mincey $1.25 mil and the race is over before it starts.

It's like this, if JPP were available for about $2.5 mil then I'd take a look.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Mincey has only played 74.6% of the snaps JPP has. So, you need a stat correction to better reflect the difference.

Mincey's numbers in parentheses.
74.6% of 54 tackles is 40 (26) tackles.
74.6% of 8 tackles for a loss is 5.6 (4) tackles for a loss.
74.6% of 5 sacks is 3.7 (3) sacks.
74.6% of 6 hurries is 4.4 (13) hurries.
74.6% of 4 stuffs is 2.9 (2) stuffs

The first thing I would like to say is you shouldn't compare JPP to Mincey. They are not the same class of player. Why don't you just compare Ware to Ebenezer Ekuban?

That said, QB pressure wise per snap they aren't that far apart. (JPP's pash rush has dropped off quite a bit) As a run stopper, clearly JPP is far more dominate.

And that's a fair comparison.

The bottom line is that there isn't much difference between the two players and if I have to choose between one guy who's going to make $1.5 mil next season and another guy who's going to put up only slightly stronger numbers at say $4 mil for next season, I'm taking the $1.5 mil guy.

Many think JPP is some kind of elite pass rusher-- he's not or he hasn't been in a long time.

 

[CyberB0b]

We need 2 corners that are fast and that can tackle. We also need a fast safety that can tackle and cover.

If we stay in the Cover 3, technique is more important than speed.

 

[BlindFaith]

Mincey has only played 74.6% of the snaps JPP has. So, you need a stat correction to better reflect the difference.

Mincey's numbers in parentheses.
74.6% of 54 tackles is 40 (26) tackles.
74.6% of 8 tackles for a loss is 5.6 (4) tackles for a loss.
74.6% of 5 sacks is 3.7 (3) sacks.
74.6% of 6 hurries is 4.4 (13) hurries.
74.6% of 4 stuffs is 2.9 (2) stuffs

The first thing I would like to say is you shouldn't compare JPP to Mincey. They are not the same class of player. Why don't you just compare Ware to Ebenezer Ekuban?

That said, QB pressure wise per snap they aren't that far apart. (JPP's pash rush has dropped off quite a bit) As a run stopper, clearly JPP is far more dominate.

I don't know where either of you got your numbers, but according to sporting charts, JPP has 642 and JAG has 540. That's 84%. But I get the point. And it's a fair point. But the argument can also be made that Mincey should be fresher since he's not playing as much.

And I wasn't the one trying to compare the two. Winicki was, saying that they were basically the same player.

 

[xwalker]

Please share the tape and we can break it down. Crashing down blindly as you suggest is not how it's supposed to be done. Maintaining leverage and outside contain is a defensive ends responsibility.

They do it way too often for it not to be part of the scheme. It normally works OK as long as a LB maintains outside leverage but when the LB gets pinned inside then it creates a big opening for the RB.

I don't know if the LB is required to "read" the DE or it they are supposed to know that the DE is crashing down based on the defensive play call.

The tape is Game Rewind from NFL.com.

 

[YosemiteSam]

And that's a fair comparison.

The bottom line is that there isn't much difference between the two players and if I have to choose between one guy who's going to make $1.5 mil next season and another guy who's going to put up only slightly stronger numbers at say $4 mil for next season, I'm taking the $1.5 mil guy.

Many think JPP is some kind of elite pass rusher-- he's not or he hasn't been in a long time.

On the opposite side, JPP is on the field more often which makes him a more valuable player. Every snap Mincey takes off, that's a dollar he is making without any possible production out of it.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I don't know where either of you got your numbers, but according to sporting charts, JPP has 642 and JAG has 540.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

Select WEEK: ALL, TEAM: NYG, POS: DL YEAR: 2014 Then do the same for Dallas.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

On the opposite side, JPP is on the field more often which makes him a more valuable player. Every snap Mincey takes off, that's a dollar he is making without any possible production out of it.

But that's the system.

Even if JPP were playing for Dallas he would not have the snaps he gets with the Giants.

 

[YosemiteSam]

But that's the system.

Even if JPP were playing for Dallas he would not have the snaps he gets with the Giants.

I don't know about that. You don't take effective players off the field unless you have too. If JPP is still far more effective than the player you are replacing him with and JPP doesn't actually need a rest. Then why would you replace him with a garbage player? If Ware were still on the Cowboys and healthy, I promise you. His snap count would be similar to JPP with the Giants.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I don't know about that. You don't take effective players off the field unless you have too. If JPP is still far more effective than the player you are replacing him with and JPP doesn't actually need a rest. Then why would you replace him with a garbage player? If Ware were still on the Cowboys and healthy, I promise you. His snap count would be similar to JPP with the Giants.

I'm sure he wouldn't get that many snaps.

Cameron Wake only 555 snaps. Mario Williams only has 605. Michael Bennett has 635.

Players far better (at this point) than JPP are getting fewer snaps.

It's all about rotation.

 

[AmishCowboy]

Just for grins here are the PFF grades so far this season for several defenders:

Jeremy Mincey +9.8
Tyrone Crawford +18.9
Nick Hayden -17.5
George Selvie -4.2
Henry Melton +9.3
Anthony Spencer +4.0
Terrell McClain -2.5
DeMarcus Lawrence +1.6
Ro McClain +8.2
Bruce Carter -7.9
Anthony Hitchens -3.7
Justin Durant +3.0
Bandon Carr -13.0
JJ Wilcox -7.8
Barry Church +2.5
Orlando Scandrick +7.6
Sterling Moore +2.7
Mo Claiborne -6.5
CJ Spillman -2.9
Tyler Patmon +2.2

So Hayden and Carr are the weal links?, Imagine that

 

[MichaelWinicki]

So Hayden and Carr are the weal links?, Imagine that

Hayden yeah... You look at his career numbers and you don't expect even average numbers.

But Carr has been much better than this.

I don't know what it is about the Cowboys that they can take talented corners and suddenly turn them into crap... Newman, Jenkins, Carr.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

release : carr
do not sign : spencer , selvie , hayden ,carter

re-sign : durant , moore ,Melton

sign :

Jerry Hughes
http://www.nfl.com/player/jerryhughes/496796/profile

cheaper and better than JPP.

Darius Butler - a true tampa two cover corner should come reasonable .

Draft a DT, DE ,S, LB

Hughes - Crawford- Brent - Lawrence
Rookie- Melton - Rookie -Mincey

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

Jerry Hughes Jerry Hughes Jerry Hughes . Hometown guy , productive and cheap .

 

[camelboy]

Rex Ryan as 2015 DC anyone? If Rod leaves?

 

[Bluefin]

History tells us Dallas will look to it's own FA first.

They always do.

It will be interesting to see if the team can restrain itself from keeping too many of their own and overpaying to do so.

It seems Dallas has taken a hard line with how much they are willing to pay DeMarco Murray. Will they hold to it?

The Cowboys need to be prudent with these free agents.

Carr and Melton will get renegotiation talks is my guess.

It's doubtful either player is interested in taking a huge, multi-year pay cut to remain on the roster.

Brandon Carr is due $27.1M and Henry Melton is due $24M over the next three seasons.

I want to cut the cord and use that money on other players.

Durant and McClain will get asked to test the market and bring back for Dallas to match. Carter is likely gone.

I agree about Bruce Carter and Justin Durant.

I'd like to get Rolando McClain locked up prior to free agency if at all possible.

Dallas needs 1 high quality safety and 1 legit pass rusher IMHO. Getting both from the draft would be ideal but that's a big gamble.

Building through the draft is hugely important, but the edge rush issue is too glaring for the team to wait that long to try and address it.

They've got to do something in free agency.

They have bodies at CB and those guys compete for the top 3 roles.

If Carr is released, I'd like to add a veteran corner at a modest price and hopefully find another one during the draft.

Then we'd have, Orlando Scandrick, Morris Claiborne, Sterling Moore (RFA), Tyler Patmon, veteran FA and a rookie draft pick with some good competition to claim a roster spot between the reserves
.

I'd be interested in Cliff Avril at the right price. Part-time pass rusher but fits system and rotation to a tee. Just not sure he'll b cheap enough.

He's definitely worth an invite to Valley Ranch to see what it would cost.