Cowboys defense for 2015

[big dog cowboy]

Where I'd have real interest in offensive FA is the right vet WR. A cheaper guy who could compete for WR2/WR3 snaps.

If something happens to Dez, our offense would be crippled instantly. I understand wanting to keep the young guns. But we are playing with fire by gamgling that Dez and to a certain but much lesser extent TWill stay healthy.

 

[BigStar]

We have so many of our own guys to resign before I even think about signing other free agents.

Dez? Let Free walk (luxury) and draft his replacement. Same with Murray (that's a hard one admittedly as I love the player). Just bidness

 

[BigStar]

Sheard is interesting. Problem is he's never been effective. He has great speed, solid size and looks like a pass rusher but 23 sacks for his career is pretty soft. He also can only play weakside here in base defense which means he is a back up to DLaw.
Jerry Hughes will be too expensive. He's like Sheard but more proven as a pass rusher. He'll hit double digit sacks this year and was a terror in college. His issue is injury. Still he's a 40M+ guy.
JP- NYG are desperate for pass rush and DL. They won't give up on JPP unless the money is obscene. He's a 30m+ guy.
Houston is a 3-4 OLB and will get 50 mil+.
Orakpo is Spencer. He's got 100m potential but could have UDFA level play due to injuries. Would love to get him on a make good deal but so would 31 other teams.

Hardy is the most talented of the group and if you want to gamble he's your guy.
He's the Charles Haley of this list.

Agree with most of this but do you really think NY will sign him to that type of deal after posting modest sack totals and the injuries? Honest q as I'm not up to date on their day to day type of workings unless we face them that week, or in off season, etc.

 

[cowboys1981]

Hughes is interesting. Good sack stats. I pulled up a couple of their games to review him. I was not wowed. They played a 4 man line in the snaps I reviewed but he was standing like a 3-4 LB. I guess it's all about cost.

I also reviewed Carolina and Greg Hardy. He is a Wow player. I don't know what he would cost considering his legal issues.

I would at least check in on him. His value probably took a little drop.

 

[Bluefin]

Sheard is interesting. Problem is he's never been effective

Jabaal Sheard had 8.5 sacks as a rookie starter and 7 sacks as a year two starter playing 4-3 LDE in Cleveland.

The Browns switched to the 3-4 in 2012 and Sheard moved to ROLB, logging only 5.5 sacks. He has 2 sacks so far this season playing mostly in a reserve role at both OLB spots.

 

[Kaiser]

I would like to move on from Church if possible to allow Wilcox to switch over, or sign/draft a rangy coverage FS to get away from the consistent SS/SS backfields that have been on poor display the last several years.

Agree with your post, on the safeties I think its a "good enough" group and Dallas will spend their salary cap money on other positions. I'd love to have a ballhawk at FS also but I do think Wilcox will improve quite a bit. I'm not as high on Church as some posters here but he is a bargain at his salary and isn't position that really needs upgrading IMO.

 

[BigStar]

Agree with your post, on the safeties I think its a "good enough" group and Dallas will spend their salary cap money on other positions. I'd love to have a ballhawk at FS also but I do think Wilcox will improve quite a bit. I'm not as high on Church as some posters here but he is a bargain at his salary and isn't position that really needs upgrading IMO.

Agree DE takes precedent most definitely over a S. That is just more of a pet peeve of mine in general as it seems Dallas seems to be the only team reluctant to acknowledge that modern Safeties need speed and range to cover the new athletes @ TE and when matched up with the scat backs like Sproles our even the quicker slot receivers like Eldelman, Welker, Beasley, (@ a minimum to have the speed to make the quick tackle underneath/in the open field).

 

[jterrell]

He spent last season making the transition to 3-4 OLB & had 5.5 sacks while rotating with 1st round pick Barkevious Mingo on the right side. He also missed 3 games in 2013, thus further hampering his production. Former Browns DC Ray Horton said he could play on both sides in the 3-4...and he initially was working on the left side, before switching back to the right side. Kruger starts on the left side.

As mentioned, he's been rotating with Mingo since they went to the 3-4. Additionally, he recently sustained a foot injury that they initially thought would end his season, but it turned out he didn't need surgery & returned. He's not benched, but rather on a snap count in a rotation with Mingo. And he has been one of the few players for them that's been decent vs. the run, as the team as a whole has struggled.

Personally, I see producing on really bad teams as a positive. Despite talent lacking around him...he had 55 tackles, 8.5 sacks, and 5 forced fumbles while starting on the right side as a rookie. In his 2nd season, he had 55 tackles & 7 sacks. In other words, his production wasn't coming on the coat tails of others.

I agree about Rosenhaus. And while I don't think he'll come 'cheap'...he may not command what some of the other pass rushers might. Injuries & a position change have indeed hampered his production over the past 2 seasons, and that may factor into things. In addition to contracts received by guys like Avril, Bennett, etc...who had more production on their resumes.

As far as Cleveland is concerned...not sure he's ever been in their long-term plans. While the Browns did have initial contract talks, they paid Kruger quite a bit of money to play LOLB...and drafted Barkevious Mingo with the 6th overall pick in 2013 to play on the right side. Not to mention...he was more productive in the 4-3 at DE.

In the end...he's not a guy I'd wrap up significant/elite cap money in. Then again, I could say that about pretty much all of the free agent pass rushers. However, If a decent contract could be reached...I think he & Lawrence could potentially be a solid/young tandem at RDE.

This is a good post and I don't think we are far apart on what we see.
I see them paying Kruger and drafting Mingo as an indictment on the player they had but you are correct in that this also makes him more likely to be available.
End of the day I'd still be very concerned about those stats. He's never had a double digit sack season and has 7.5 now over the past 2 seasons.
I think the team could simply draft that type of production.
If we wanted another guy to rotate in with DLaw I do think he fits but I'd rather have a guy start over DLaw that can go play LDE on 3rd down while DLaw is in at RDE.

It will come down to the money and what else is available.
Dallas has no need to break the bank for a DE but could definitely use an upgrade.

I could see a guy like Markus Golden or Trey Flowers fitting in as a round 2 draft pick playing behind DLaw the first year.

 

[jterrell]

Agree DE takes precedent most definitely over a S. That is just more of a pet peeve of mine in general as it seems Dallas seems to be the only team reluctant to acknowledge that modern Safeties need speed and range to cover the new athletes @ TE and when matched up with the scat backs like Sproles our even the quicker slot receivers like Eldelman, Welker, Beasley, (@ a minimum to have the speed to make the quick tackle underneath/in the open field).

Getting better safety play is crucial. Our safeties are pretty good versus the run which helps us there but they are really poor pass coverage guys which hurts our CBs and limits our coverages.
We blitz LB or CB because our safeties aren't good at that either.

A player like Honey Badger would take us to a different level as a defense.

Yes, you need pass rush first but we have a 10 DL. The safety doesn't come off the field if he is any good.
At some point that needs to be a priority.
We cant ignore it in the draft plus in free agency and expect to not suck.

Our Safeties are the worst group on the team hands down and the only thing close is CB.

 

[BigStar]

Getting better safety play is crucial. Our safeties are pretty good versus the run which helps us there but they are really poor pass coverage guys which hurts our CBs and limits our coverages.
We blitz LB or CB because our safeties aren't good at that either.

A player like Honey Badger would take us to a different level as a defense.

Yes, you need pass rush first but we have a 10 DL. The safety doesn't come off the field if he is any good.
At some point that needs to be a priority.
We cant ignore it in the draft plus in free agency and expect to not suck.

Our Safeties are the worst group on the team hands down and the only thing close is CB.

Very well said and agree but edge rushers would also take the D to the next level. We have some talent here on the DL (Melton, Crawford, Law, maybe Brent in time) but another edge rusher to compliment Law will be needed (maybe not initially as you're saying) but agree wholeheartedly about finally getting a S with college credentials and the talent to match. Honey Badger hybrid risk players seem to be off the team's draft boards unfortunately. But pass rush is putrid right now so adding more talent (not JAGs like Mincey/Selvie/McClain) to really allow the team to rebuild this DL.

I understand there is a line but have always felt the choir boys are best suited for the Offensive side of the ball. (Dez being obv exception) Def = instincts that take over from practice/repetition/fueled by reckless aggression. Offensive players have to be much more calculating and generally calmer in demeanor considering they know the play before hand and are less likely to require instincts to take over in order to execute the play (outside of Rbs).

 

[jterrell]

Agree with most of this but do you really think NY will sign him to that type of deal after posting modest sack totals and the injuries? Honest q as I'm not up to date on their day to day type of workings unless we face them that week, or in off season, etc.

I think the Giants are more desperate for DL than we are. Not sure they have much choice.
Since drafting Pierre-Paul they've only added one drafted DE. DaMontre Moore in round 3.
After letting Linval walk I think they gotta keep his draft class mate JPP.

The wild card of course is they may get a new coaching staff in that wants a major overhaul but if Coughlin is around I expect JPP to be paid quite handsomely.
DL always seem to be.

 

[jterrell]

Very well said and agree but edge rushers would also take the D to the next level. We have some talent here on the DL (Melton, Crawford, Law, maybe Brent in time) but another edge rusher to compliment Law will be needed (maybe not initially as you're saying) but agree wholeheartedly about finally getting a S with college credentials and the talent to match. Honey Badger hybrid risk players seem to be off the team's draft boards unfortunately. But pass rush is putrid right now so adding more talent (not JAGs like Mincey/Selvie/McClain) to really allow the team to rebuild this DL.

I understand there is a line but have always felt the choir boys are best suited for the Offensive side of the ball. (Dez being obv exception) Def = instincts that take over from practice/repetition/fueled by reckless aggression. Offensive players have to be much more calculating and generally calmer in demeanor considering they know the play before hand and are less likely to require instincts to take over in order to execute the play (outside of Rbs).

I can't be mad about Honey Badger specifically. He was a dolt and had to sit out a year of football in the SEC where it is realllllly hard to get kicked out.
But I do hate they seem to not value the position.

I like pass rush as much as anyone but we rotate guys there and will be drafting those guys every year.
At some point you need a bell cow safety that you can rely on for a decade.
And we've had shots and those guys and passed.

I don't know why Reid was off our board but he can play and would have been a marked upgrade here.

They still take Wilcox out for Heath in some sure passing sets. That says to me that we have major issues.

 

[BigStar]

I think the Giants are more desperate for DL than we are. Not sure they have much choice.
Since drafting Pierre-Paul they've only added one drafted DE. DaMontre Moore in round 3.
After letting Linval walk I think they gotta keep his draft class mate JPP.

The wild card of course is they may get a new coaching staff in that wants a major overhaul but if Coughlin is around I expect JPP to be paid quite handsomely.
DL always seem to be.

That's what I was going to point out put you concluded with it. Agree that would probably be the deciding factor, but even then, he would probably get a big payday from someone else out of our range. Still like his talent though I'm biased as he seems to roid up before each Cowboy game.

 

[BigStar]

I can't be mad about Honey Badger specifically. He was a dolt and had to sit out a year of football in the SEC where it is realllllly hard to get kicked out.
But I do hate they seem to not value the position.

I like pass rush as much as anyone but we rotate guys there and will be drafting those guys every year.
At some point you need a bell cow safety that you can rely on for a decade.
And we've had shots and those guys and passed.

I don't know why Reid was off our board but he can play and would have been a marked upgrade here.

They still take Wilcox out for Heath in some sure passing sets. That says to me that we have major issues.

I didn't know Eric Reid was off our board even though they knowingly traded the pick to SF with the implication that they were going to selecting him. I would definitely still take Frederick in "that" specific situation. The Badger pick wasn't really who I intended specifically just more of a general philosophy (Janoris Jenkins..V.Burflict). But yes I agree about the lack of attention regarding the S pos. as it is being treated how the OL was during the 2010-11 season with JJ even confirming he went cheap due to Romo's mobility. But we should be drafting mid late so that is generally when the S position starts getting attention from other teams so it may require a 1st rounder. I "would" like to draft Romo's replacement considering the uncertainty and declining arm strength the last two seasons but understand the new way of the league is to only draft when immediately needed (maybe outside of NE).

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Sign
DE Greg Hardy
DE Cliff Avril
DT Pat Williams
CB Charles Tillman



SDE-Hardy-Mincey
1DT-Brent-Pat Williams 1yr -Coleman
3DT-Crawford-Okoye
WDE-Avril-Lawrence

LB's- Lee-McClain(resign)-Hitchens-Durant

CB's-Scandrick-Tillman-Mo-Moore

Safeties- Church-Hamilton-Wilcox

where is the cap money going to come from? this ain't fantasy football

 

[cowboys1981]

where is the cap money going to come from? this ain't fantasy football

Veterans like Williams and Tillman aren't going to break your bank with a 1 yr-2yr deals. If this was last offseason Hardy would be a reach. Since his legal issues have surfaced his stock is down. Avril is a situational player who can be our pass rush specialist and since he's nearing 30 and having one skillset he won't be nowhere near what we'll pay for a player like Hardy. It's possible.

 

[xwalker]

Was this "Madden"?
TJ Ward signed a four year $22.5 million contract with the Denver Broncos on March 11, 2014
DeMarcus Ware signed a three year, $30 million contract with the Denver Broncos on March 12, 2014
Aqib Talib signed a six year, $57 million contract with the Denver Broncos on March 12, 2014
Emmanuel Sanders signed a three year $15 million contract on March 17, 2014


But I can see why you thought signing JPP, KJ Wright, and Chris Culliver was so unbelievable.

5.625
10
9.5

Very well said and agree but edge rushers would also take the D to the next level. We have some talent here on the DL (Melton, Crawford, Law, maybe Brent in time) but another edge rusher to compliment Law will be needed (maybe not initially as you're saying) but agree wholeheartedly about finally getting a S with college credentials and the talent to match. Honey Badger hybrid risk players seem to be off the team's draft boards unfortunately. But pass rush is putrid right now so adding more talent (not JAGs like Mincey/Selvie/McClain) to really allow the team to rebuild this DL.

I understand there is a line but have always felt the choir boys are best suited for the Offensive side of the ball. (Dez being obv exception) Def = instincts that take over from practice/repetition/fueled by reckless aggression. Offensive players have to be much more calculating and generally calmer in demeanor considering they know the play before hand and are less likely to require instincts to take over in order to execute the play (outside of Rbs).

I think they will be more willing to take chances on character risk players now. The locker room mentality that Garrett inherited was so bad with a team full of under-achieving over-paid knuckleheads like Jay Ratliff, that Garrett had to over-focus on getting in high character players. Now that the roster has almost completely turned over and has a large contingent of high character players, it's easier to take some risks in that area without worrying about them taking over the locker room.

Also, when Will McClay was promoted, it was reported that he would be more open to character risk players but would be more likely to avoid injury risk players than they had in the past.

 

[BigStar]

5.62
10
9.5


I think they will be more willing to take chances on character risk players now. The locker room mentality that Garrett inherited was so bad with a team full of under-achieving over-paid knuckleheads like Jay Ratliff, that Garrett had to over-focus on getting in high character players. Now that the roster has almost completely turned over and has a large contingent of high character players, it's easier to take some risks in that area without worrying about them taking over the locker room.

Also, when Will McClay was promoted, it was reported that he would be more open to character risk players but would be more likely to avoid injury risk players than they had in the past.

What I don't like with this mindset is that it proves the doubts concerning Romo, Witten,and Ware in that there were potentially "missed" leadership opportunities that could have improved as well under JG's watch that wouldn't have necessitated such a long term overhaul.. PR will pacify this aspect by stating that "leading by example" etc. is the way to go but our top players didn't have enough influence in the locker room for this to change without needing to hamper your team's future draft prospects. Speaks to coaching as well of course but doesn't give much confidence to Romo/Witten's ability to solidify their team with their "leadership" abilities. All teams have bad apples but our choir boy leadership or bromance may have also been playing a role in this locker room division as well.

 

[ccb04]

This is a good post and I don't think we are far apart on what we see.
I see them paying Kruger and drafting Mingo as an indictment on the player they had but you are correct in that this also makes him more likely to be available.
End of the day I'd still be very concerned about those stats. He's never had a double digit sack season and has 7.5 now over the past 2 seasons.
I think the team could simply draft that type of production.
If we wanted another guy to rotate in with DLaw I do think he fits but I'd rather have a guy start over DLaw that can go play LDE on 3rd down while DLaw is in at RDE.

It will come down to the money and what else is available.
Dallas has no need to break the bank for a DE but could definitely use an upgrade.

I could see a guy like Markus Golden or Trey Flowers fitting in as a round 2 draft pick playing behind DLaw the first year.

Well said, JT.

I believe it was you who also mentioned Cliff Avril...which is another guy I think could make for a solid rotational signing. IMO, Sheard is a better fit in the 4-3...but wasn't too shabby in the 3-4 in 2013, considering he was transitioning to a new position & scheme, and the missed time. Agreed...definitely don't think they need to break the bank on a free agent DE.

I'm all for building through the draft...and also think Lawrence will continue to improve.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Veterans like Williams and Tillman aren't going to break your bank with a 1 yr-2yr deals. If this was last offseason Hardy would be a reach. Since his legal issues have surfaced his stock is down. Avril is a situational player who can be our pass rush specialist and since he's nearing 30 and having one skillset he won't be nowhere near what we'll pay for a player like Hardy. It's possible.

we have a boat load of our own veterans and current players to sign as well.