Cowboys Free Agent Wishlist

[BAT]

I specifically said that any trade should include Josh Gordon as a package.

And Joe Thomas. That would be the only way I would do it for a 4th. package of Manziel, Gordon and Thomas. I'll even throw in Street and our best corner, Brandon Carr (wink, wink).

Heck, feeling generous tonight, might even make it a 3rd. In 2017.

 

[BAT]

For my free agent wish list I'd like a complete set of defensive ends like a Haley/Tolbert combo or a ware/spencer combo. I think Lawrence can play the Tolbert/ spencer role, but I need a bad dude to be the Haley/ Ware Can someone find us one?

Put the bad dudes in the middle instead, Billings and Nkemdiche. Or Bosa, but he's a strongside DE in NFL. Other option is to re-sign Hardy. Definitely fits your description of "bad dude", both on and off the field.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I don't think its a given that Cleveland releases Josh Gordon or wants to trade him

 

[Stash]

I don't think its a given that Cleveland releases Josh Gordon or wants to trade him

I don't think that they would release him either. But that's part of why I would make an offer for both he and Manziel. It's the only way I would allow the Browns to save face on the Manziel mess. Offer a draft pick for both, allowing them to say they got something for their former number one draft pick quarterback.

Otherwise, they get nothing for Manziel and live with the criticism of having yet another 1st round quarterback bust that they released for nothing. And not only that, but like the previous first rounders, whoever they draft at #2 overall will already have the stench of failure around him before he ever throws an NFL pass.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I don't think that they would release him either. But that's part of why I would make an offer for both he and Manziel. It's the only way I would allow the Browns to save face on the Manziel mess. Offer a draft pick for both, allowing them to say they got something for their former number one draft pick quarterback.

Otherwise, they get nothing for Manziel and live with the criticism of having yet another 1st round quarterback bust that they released for nothing. And not only that, but like the previous first rounders, whoever they draft at #2 overall will already have the stench of failure around him before he ever throws an NFL pass.

I think some of you guys aren't looking at this realistically. For starters, there's a new GM and coach, I don't think they care about saving face on a decision they did not make. Second, if they aren't inclined to deal Josh Gordon, taking Manziel off their hands, when you in essence are really just trading a pick for Gordon won't entice them. They could easily get a 3rd or 4th for Gordon from some team, so throwing in there that we'll take JF so they can save face won't be enough.

And as much as I think JF is a waste of time, it may be worth it for Cleveland to not trade him. Obviously he's not the future, but Goff doesn't look like a guy who is ready to play on day 1. If I'm the Browns GM, I'd keep Manziel, let him start the season and when Goff is ready, make the switch.

 

[Stash]

I think some of you guys aren't looking at this realistically. For starters, there's a new GM and coach, I don't think they care about saving face on a decision they did not make.

You're right about that, but ownership didn't change. And ownership played as big a role in the Manziel move as anyone, probably even more so. That's well known.

Second, if they aren't inclined to deal Josh Gordon, taking Manziel off their hands, when you in essence are really just trading a pick for Gordon won't entice them. They could easily get a 3rd or 4th for Gordon from some team, so throwing in there that we'll take JF so they can save face won't be enough.

I think that's debatable. I don't think that they can "easily" get a 3rd or 4th round pick for Gordon. They themselves only used a 2nd rounder to acquire him while other teams were only willing to use a 3rd rounder - including Dallas who did put in a bid for him in the supplemental draft. And that was before his most recent transgressions. I don't think they can expect to do better than a 4th round pick for a player currently not even reinstated by the league and one strike away from what could be a permanent ban.

And as much as I think JF is a waste of time, it may be worth it for Cleveland to not trade him. Obviously he's not the future, but Goff doesn't look like a guy who is ready to play on day 1. If I'm the Browns GM, I'd keep Manziel, let him start the season and when Goff is ready, make the switch.

The word got out quickly upon Hue Jackson's hire that the subject of Manziel was a key part of the interview conversations. And that he wanted no part of him. Now that the word has gotten out, people are attempting to put a positive spin on things and preaching a patient review of the team, but you're not putting that genie back in the bottle.

 

[Galian Beast]

And Joe Thomas. That would be the only way I would do it for a 4th. package of Manziel, Gordon and Thomas. I'll even throw in Street and our best corner, Brandon Carr (wink, wink).

Heck, feeling generous tonight, might even make it a 3rd. In 2017.

Thomas has a base salary of 8.3 million in 2016 and 8.8 million in 2017 and 2018.

 

[Galian Beast]

I don't think its a given that Cleveland releases Josh Gordon or wants to trade him

We still need to see what Gordon's status upon reinstatement is. He may be a free agent, he may require a tender offer. The question is, this. Let's say you tender him in 2016. He is an UFA in 2017. Are you going to franchise him? Absolutely not. To get value for this guy now if possible is the best course of action.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

We still need to see what Gordon's status upon reinstatement is. He may be a free agent, he may require a tender offer. The question is, this. Let's say you tender him in 2016. He is an UFA in 2017. Are you going to franchise him? Absolutely not. To get value for this guy now if possible is the best course of action.

the suspended season, suspended his contract. once he is reinstated, he is under contract for 2016 and a RFA next season.

 

[Doomsday101]

He is going to be very, VERY expensive.

True but hopefully the saving on releasing Carr which I think they should Dallas can get a strong replacement in Josh Norman who is actually capable of playing both man and zone coverages

 

[Manwiththeplan]

You're right about that, but ownership didn't change. And ownership played as big a role in the Manziel move as anyone, probably even more so. That's well known.

And ownership doesn't the stink of the other failures on them. Haslem bought the team 5 months or so after they took Weeden. Even if that weren't the case, it's laughable to suggest they would give up an asset just to save face. Now whether they view Gordon as an asset is debatable, but I think he is.

I think that's debatable. I don't think that they can "easily" get a 3rd or 4th round pick for Gordon. They themselves only used a 2nd rounder to acquire him while other teams were only willing to use a 3rd rounder - including Dallas who did put in a bid for him in the supplemental draft. And that was before his most recent transgressions. I don't think they can expect to do better than a 4th round pick for a player currently not even reinstated by the league and one strike away from what could be a permanent ban.

Cleveland only gave up a second, but his 2013 season was far beyond the value of a second rounder. If not for his off the field issues, he'd be worth multiple firsts, so I think he'd catch a 3rd or 4th if they dealt him. Personally I would not. He's cheap and affordable for 2 more years, why deal him, unless some team over pays?

The word got out quickly upon Hue Jackson's hire that the subject of Manziel was a key part of the interview conversations. And that he wanted no part of him. Now that the word has gotten out, people are attempting to put a positive spin on things and preaching a patient review of the team, but you're not putting that genie back in the bottle.

Similar to Josh Gordon, Manziel is cheap and affordable for two more seasons, so you don't have to put the genie back in the bottle, you just don't trade him. Cleveland is going to draft a QB in the first, but that doesn't mean they'll want to start him on day 1, and if he plays well in the interim, he'll increase his trade value and end up in a better situation. If he misses meetings to go to Vegas, they can always deactivate him for the season, which really only hurts him

 

[Stash]

And ownership doesn't the stink of the other failures on them. Haslem bought the team 5 months or so after they took Weeden. Even if that weren't the case, it's laughable to suggest they would give up an asset just to save face. Now whether they view Gordon as an asset is debatable, but I think he is.

The franchise has the stink of failure on it when it comes to first round quarterbacks, no matter who the owner, GM, or coach are. And again, I'm not suggesting that taking Manziel would force them to move Gordon if they didn't want to at all. But I think helping them save face would play some part - however small - in any deal.

Cleveland only gave up a second, but his 2013 season was far beyond the value of a second rounder. If not for his off the field issues, he'd be worth multiple firsts, so I think he'd catch a 3rd or 4th if they dealt him. Personally I would not. He's cheap and affordable for 2 more years, why deal him, unless some team over pays?

Because the new staff doesn't want to deal with guys like him and Manziel obviously. And yes, in a vacuum, with none of the off-field issues, he's a Pro Bowl talent. But that's certainly not the case, and any team acquiring him knows the full picture. And that's why he's available, and that's why the asking price has to be low.

Similar to Josh Gordon, Manziel is cheap and affordable for two more seasons, so you don't have to put the genie back in the bottle, you just don't trade him. Cleveland is going to draft a QB in the first, but that doesn't mean they'll want to start him on day 1, and if he plays well in the interim, he'll increase his trade value and end up in a better situation. If he misses meetings to go to Vegas, they can always deactivate him for the season, which really only hurts him

Did you miss all of the reports when Hue Jackson was hired and where they said he doesn't want him there? Do you think the team is going to go back in their word and now force their new coach to keep him? Is that what you're claiming?

 

[Stash]

True but hopefully the saving on releasing Carr which I think they should Dallas can get a strong replacement in Josh Norman who is actually capable of playing both man and zone coverages

He'd be my lone exception to not spending a great deal in free agency. If he were to somehow be available, I'd pay the big money to get him, even at the risk of having another Brandon Carr type deal down the road. I think Norman is a much better risk.

But the money would be huge!

 

[Manwiththeplan]

The franchise has the stink of failure on it when it comes to first round quarterbacks, no matter who the owner, GM, or coach are. And again, I'm not suggesting that taking Manziel would force them to move Gordon if they didn't want to at all. But I think helping them save face would play some part - however small - in any deal.

I just don't think that will factor into the equation at all and even if it did, making JF a throw in player in a deal doesn't make it stink any less

Because the new staff doesn't want to deal with guys like him and Manziel obviously. And yes, in a vacuum, with none of the off-field issues, he's a Pro Bowl talent. But that's certainly not the case, and any team acquiring him knows the full picture. And that's why he's available, and that's why the asking price has to be low.

There hasn't been any reports to suggest this is the case, Manziel, yea, you can make that inference, but there's nothing to suggest that the new staff doesn't want to deal with Gordon. To be honest, given Hue's last two stops of Cincy and Oakland, I'd be surprised if he weren't open to working with Gordon.

Did you miss all of the reports when Hue Jackson was hired and where they said he doesn't want him there? Do you think the team is going to go back in their word and now force their new coach to keep him? Is that what you're claiming?

That's the thing, reports aren't always 100% true. As you know, there were reports that Vikings ownership did not want Adrian Peterson on the roster and we all see how that turned out. Most of those reports really just took and indirect statement and applied it to JF, which doesn't mean they are planning to release him. To be honest, the only direct report seems to suggest that aren't going to make a rash decision. And when it comes to JF, I do think the owner is done with him and won't force the coach to keep him and I even think the coach will not be open to JF being in his long term plans, all I'm saying is, the prudent thing may not be to release him and certainly not to when it's convenient for Manziel .

The nice thing would be to do so, so he can move on, but Cleveland is under no obligation to do so. For starters, until the actual draft, they most definitely should not trade him/release him, unless they get a great value. Every day up until the draft, his value will slightly increase as teams that want a QB, that know they can't get one of the top 3, may become more interested or even more if the top 3 struggle and begin to show their warts. Now once the draft happens, his value will drop until he plays, but it just makes no sense to deal him prior to May. Second, if they aren't drafting Goff, what should play an even bigger role than this stink you believe they must avoid, is making sure they don't throw Lynch or Wentz out there too early and derail/ruin their carer (I think Goff could really benefit from sitting as well to be honest). That's where JF comes into play. Maybe it is an as *** thing to do, but you throw him out there, let him take the lumps until you are ready for the rookie to play.

 

[Stash]

I just don't think that will factor into the equation at all and even if it did, making JF a throw in player in a deal doesn't make it stink any less

Fair enough. We're just fans comparing opinions.

There hasn't been any reports to suggest this is the case, Manziel, yea, you can make that inference, but there's nothing to suggest that the new staff doesn't want to deal with Gordon. To be honest, given Hue's last two stops of Cincy and Oakland, I'd be surprised if he weren't open to working with Gordon.

I didn't mean to infer that they are ready to move on from Gordon, just that they might be open to an offer.

That's the thing, reports aren't always 100% true. As you know, there were reports that Vikings ownership did not want Adrian Peterson on the roster and we all see how that turned out. Most of those reports really just took and indirect statement and applied it to JF, which doesn't mean they are planning to release him. To be honest, the only direct report seems to suggest that aren't going to make a rash decision. And when it comes to JF, I do think the owner is done with him and won't force the coach to keep him and I even think the coach will not be open to JF being in his long term plans, all I'm saying is, the prudent thing may not be to release him and certainly not to when it's convenient for Manziel .

The nice thing would be to do so, so he can move on, but Cleveland is under no obligation to do so. For starters, until the actual draft, they most definitely should not trade him/release him, unless they get a great value. Every day up until the draft, his value will slightly increase as teams that want a QB, that know they can't get one of the top 3, may become more interested or even more if the top 3 struggle and begin to show their warts. Now once the draft happens, his value will drop until he plays, but it just makes no sense to deal him prior to May. Second, if they aren't drafting Goff, what should play an even bigger role than this stink you believe they must avoid, is making sure they don't throw Lynch or Wentz out there too early and derail/ruin their carer (I think Goff could really benefit from sitting as well to be honest). That's where JF comes into play. Maybe it is an as *** thing to do, but you throw him out there, let him take the lumps until you are ready for the rookie to play.

Yeah, we'll just agree to disagree with you here. I don't see any of what you're staying here at all.

 

[Galian Beast]

the suspended season, suspended his contract. once he is reinstated, he is under contract for 2016 and a RFA next season.

I think that has yet to be determined.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I think that has yet to be determined.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...pension-josh-gordon-applies-for-reinstatement

"If Gordon is reinstated, he will be under contract with the Cleveland Browns for the 2016 season because he did not play enough games in the 2014 season to qualify for a full year of control under his rookie contract. If the Browns elect to keep Gordon for the 2016 campaign, he would become a restricted free agent at the end of the year."

in 2014, he was suspended for 10 games and *should* have been on the active roster for 6 games, making him a RFA. however, when he was suspended for the week 17 game, he was only on the active roster for 5 games and thus the year did not count, so in the eyes of the NFL he has only played 2 years.

 

[mattjames2010]

QB: RGIII, Sam Bradford,
RB: Doug Martin, Lamar Miller, Alfred Morris, Lance Dunbar, C.J. Anderson
WR: Jermaine Kearse, Marvin Jones, Rishard Matthews, Kamar Aiken, and maybe give Percy Harvin a look
TE: Ladarius Green, Clay Harbor
RT: Andre Smith
DT: B.J. Raji, Tony McDaniel, Nick Fairley
CB: Sean Smith, Janoris Jenkins, Jerraud Powers, Morris Claiborne

I haven't really looked into the safety position much, I know the reputation behind Weddle and Berry. Other than that, all the other FA safeties all kinda blur together for me. As it stands now, this is looking like a pretty good FA class. I doubt we will, but I am hoping we look hard at TEs in FA.

Out of my list, the gem to me would be Kearse. Easily the most clutch WR in the league, and with Baldwin going off and Tyler Lockette coming along, they might let Kearse test the market. Shouldn't be too expensive, and he should do well with our offensive scheme.

 

[BAT]

Thomas has a base salary of 8.3 million in 2016 and 8.8 million in 2017 and 2018.

For the best OT in the game? Not bad.

 

[RoboQB]

I wouldn't give up a thing for Manziel.

I definitely feel the same... don't really want him at all... but it would suck if we actually gave something up to get him.