Cowboys LBs - Measureables

[MichaelWinicki]

and when YOU don't like the numbers they mean nothing. Or more often you can't bring yourself to make a judgment at all. I remember all the time you spent defending our O line JAGs like Costa and company.

Linky?

Linky?

Kinda ornery today aren't you?

 

[Mr Cowboy]

Have you ever considered contributing something to the board other than meaningless one-liners?

He's absolutely right! Just because our players have all the ideal measurables doesn’t make them great players. Add Jason Wiliams numbers up there, he has all the ideal numbers and the kid was worthless. People on here put the legend Ben Bass' measurables and compare them to Leon Lett. The problem is that Leon could play, Ben,so far, is a legend in people's mind. He wasn't a starter for a bad college defense, and has yet to do anything in the NFL. Remember Torrin Tucker? He had all the measurable you want in an NFL Tackle, and some compared him to Erik Williams. He wasn't very good with those ideal measureles was he? And on and on it goes, just because the numbers look great doesn't mean they will be great players. Ryan Leaf had all the measureabls, but I will take Tony Romo any day..........

 

[MichaelWinicki]

He's absolutely right! Just because our players have all the ideal measurables doesn’t make them great players. Add Jason Wiliams numbers up there, he has all the ideal numbers and the kid was worthless. People on here put the legend Ben Bass' measurables and compare them to Leon Lett. The problem is that Leon could play, Ben,so far, is a legend in people's mind. He wasn't a starter for a bad college defense, and has yet to do anything in the NFL. Remember Torrin Tucker? He had all the measurable you want in an NFL Tackle, and some compared him to Erik Williams. He wasn't very good with those ideal measureles was he? And on and on it goes, just because the numbers look great doesn't mean they will be great players. Ryan Leaf had all the measureabls, but I will take Tony Romo any day..........

I don't think xwalker's post was made with the intent of showing the "superior athletic skills" of the Cowboy linebackers– I think it was done to show how the linebackers compare using pre-draft data. Nothing more, nothing less.

A couple of the linebacker have some pretty good numbers... others not so much.

 

[Idgit]

and when YOU don't like the numbers they mean nothing. Or more often you can't bring yourself to make a judgment at all. I remember all the time you spent defending our O line JAGs like Costa and company.

I remember that. He was right, given the context. And then it was proven by the Costa extension and the solid OG play. Good times.

 

[CF74]

I said before the draft that Lee is always getting hurt - I would have jumped up an grabbed him - and gotten Turner as OG

I knew the Ravens would gladly take him

I really wanted to trade up to 13 to get the DT but when we didn't, Mosley was the next best move for this defense....

 

[NeonDeion21]

I'm curious as to their reasoning with Wilber at WLB. He doesn't seem like a WILL at all. Also, Durant is/was athletic. I think he could easily win that job.

 

[Risen Star]

measurables frankly mean squat after the draft.

Exactly right.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I love how people are like...measurables don't mean anything....but come the combine they will be glued to NFL Network.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I love how people are like...measurables don't mean anything....but come the combine they will be glued to NFL Network.

Yep.

Granted that after the draft, it comes down to how the guys perform... but still those physical skills or lack thereof can help make or break the player.

 

[Alexander]

I love how people are like...measurables don't mean anything....but come the combine they will be glued to NFL Network.

I suppose you think you are proving a point, but you really are not.

The "measurables" are simply a base point for evaluation. And even those are absolutely unreliable. Some of the all-time greats had bad number, poor Combines and slow 40 times.

The fascination with how fast someone runs forty yards in a straight line without pads, how they maneuver around stationary cones, jump vertically at a dead stop, etc. just amazes me. You cannot tell me that those are accurate and reliable predictors of future success.

They are not completely useless, but they are also not absolutes worthy of revisiting years after the fact.

They are part of the overall evaluation piece. It is the same way with using game statistics to try to prove a point.

Over-reliance on either of these metrics and claiming as "fact" are laughable as it makes no sense to try to apply numerical constructs to a team sport.

 

[justbob]

Great discussion, but way to many personal side jabs. Carry on without them.

 

[Mr Cowboy]

I don't think xwalker's post was made with the intent of showing the "superior athletic skills" of the Cowboy linebackers– I think it was done to show how the linebackers compare using pre-draft data. Nothing more, nothing less.

A couple of the linebacker have some pretty good numbers... others not so much.

I apologize to Xwalker, I wasn't necessarily referring to him and I don't think Burm was either. There's plenty of posts where measurables are used for one player and compare them to legends. Measureables are of use pre draft, after the draft it's time to crap of get off the potty, because those "measurables" mean nothing when competing for a spot on an NFL team.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I apologize to Xwalker, I wasn't necessarily referring to him and I don't think Burm was either. There's plenty of posts where measurables are used for one player and compare them to legends. Measureables are of use pre draft, after the draft it's time to crap of get off the potty, because those "measurables" mean nothing when competing for a spot on an NFL team.

No probs Mr. C.

And you're right, when it comes time to put on the uniform and go out and compete, the measurables are forgotten. But certain measurables could give one player an edge over another, simply because a measurable (think Deion's speed or Larry Allens power) was being used by that player over another.

 

[theSHOW]

I don't think xwalker's post was made with the intent of showing the "superior athletic skills" of the Cowboy linebackers– I think it was done to show how the linebackers compare using pre-draft data. Nothing more, nothing less.

A couple of the linebacker have some pretty good numbers... others not so much.

agreed. Jimmy Johnson loved the speedy players on defense. Many of those players wear three rings still today. I think that speed and brains are both important. Lee has instinct but wow, if I were him I would hold hands walking across the street. I like the original post. These posts give the forum a ton of solid info that posters researched or spend time pasting to the topic for all of us. Speed is important enough that if you have multiple slow guys the defense will suffer.

 

[Mr Cowboy]

No probs Mr. C.

And you're right, when it comes time to put on the uniform and go out and compete, the measurables are forgotten. But certain measurables could give one player an edge over another, simply because a measurable (think Deion's speed or Larry Allens power) was being used by that player over another.

at times, sure, but you can look at Alexander Wright...... great speed, size and quickness.......

 

[MichaelWinicki]

at times, sure, but you can look at Alexander Wright...... great speed, size and quickness.......

You're right there.

But to defend the measurable thing when it came to Wright is that there was no metric for "catachability".

 

[Vintage]

I don't see the harm in looking at this stuff. It's interesting to see, even if it has no impact in determining a career.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I suppose you think you are proving a point, but you really are not.

The "measurables" are simply a base point for evaluation. And even those are absolutely unreliable. Some of the all-time greats had bad number, poor Combines and slow 40 times.

The fascination with how fast someone runs forty yards in a straight line without pads, how they maneuver around stationary cones, jump vertically at a dead stop, etc. just amazes me. You cannot tell me that those are accurate and reliable predictors of future success.

They are not completely useless, but they are also not absolutes worthy of revisiting years after the fact.

They are part of the overall evaluation piece. It is the same way with using game statistics to try to prove a point.

Over-reliance on either of these metrics and claiming as "fact" are laughable as it makes no sense to try to apply numerical constructs to a team sport.

Who is over relying on these attributes?

Who are you arguing with?

It's really easy to make a point when there is nobody on the other side of your argument.

And my point stands. The people who say numbers don't matter will know all the appropriate ones for players in play for the Cowboys next year. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Now continue with your straw man....

 

[xwalker]

I'm curious as to their reasoning with Wilber at WLB. He doesn't seem like a WILL at all. Also, Durant is/was athletic. I think he could easily win that job.

Who said Wilber would play WLB.

Before the Lee injury, Marinelli clearly said Wilber and Holloman at SLB with Carter and Durant at WLB.

 

[NeonDeion21]

Who said Wilber would play WLB.

Before the Lee injury, Marinelli clearly said Wilber and Holloman at SLB with Carter and Durant at WLB.

Broaddus and Eatman both said Wilber has been practicing at the WILL and Carter at SLB. To me, that makes no sense.