CFZ Cowboys Linebackers Unit - Any concerns?

beware_d-ware

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It's thin.

LVE is an injury risk and will be until he retires. The other LB spot kind of rotates with a 3rd safety, but it's an important matchup role in the scheme, and we have nothing but unproven young guys manning it.

It looks like the coaches plan to give the young guys a chance at that spot, and hope that one of Jabril, Clark, or Overshown can step up and take it. The staff has placed multiple bets. But if things go bad in camp, I would not be surprised to see Jabril get cut and be replaced by a street FA vet.
 

CCBoy

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It's thin.

LVE is an injury risk and will be until he retires. The other LB spot kind of rotates with a 3rd safety, but it's an important matchup role in the scheme, and we have nothing but unproven young guys manning it.

It looks like the coaches plan to give the young guys a chance at that spot, and hope that one of Jabril, Clark, or Overshown can step up and take it. The staff has placed multiple bets. But if things go bad in camp, I would not be surprised to see Jabril get cut and be replaced by a street FA vet.
Ever see him wince on a tackle? I haven't.
 

quickccc

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Can see them taking a hard look before doing anything. I believe Barr was signed at the start of camp last yr. It is a matter of trust with Quinn. He didn't trust Clark in the playoffs and went with Barr.
as i mentioned previously . With LVE out per injury, .. it wasn't that LVE was that good ... but that we had nuthin reputable and decent enuff at LB to compensate for his replacement

- Barr proved to be a slooooow, on fumes performer .. it was a reason why the former Pro Bowler was still on the street and available at summer's end.
And it's a reason why the Cowboys did not ask him back too.
That slowness showed.

Clark's rookniess and non-prepartion (no rookie camp, training camp, preseason, offseason program) showed. And keep in mind that he was still on the mend with a neck surgery that
the medical " red flags " probably caused his stock to drop in the NFL draft

I expect him to be mentally quicker and physically stronger this time around. .....But until then it's still " What If's " ,,,and Unknowns.
 

quickccc

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He gives good interviews. It's just a feeling I have no empirical evidence, it's the offseason. Al Harris didn't have any skins.
Actually Harris did have skins .. being former DB coach with KC Chiefs who he was instrumental in development of Marcus Peters and Brandon Flowers and even Eric Berry

- What I like about Harris (whose not the primary DB coach per Joe Witt Jr.) is you have a great ex-CB who is teaching up and developing another great CB (Diggs)
and could be another in the making (Bland)

- Similar to having DWare, Haley and Witten as special guest consultants - Greatness teaching potential greatness.

- Edwards as Vikes DC helped Mike Zimmer produced a top defensive team but departed because Zimmer can be very difficult to deal with.
From what i had gathered was Quinn was caught off guard by surprise of the non-resigning of Edwards.
 

Cowboyny

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as i mentioned previously . With LVE out per injury, .. it wasn't that LVE was that good ... but that we had nuthin reputable and decent enuff at LB to compensate for his replacement

- Barr proved to be a slooooow, on fumes performer .. it was a reason why the former Pro Bowler was still on the street and available at summer's end.
And it's a reason why the Cowboys did not ask him back too.
That slowness showed.

Clark's rookniess and non-prepartion (no rookie camp, training camp, preseason, offseason program) showed. And keep in mind that he was still on the mend with a neck surgery that
the medical " red flags " probably caused his stock to drop in the NFL draft

I expect him to be mentally quicker and physically stronger this time around. .....But until then it's still " What If's " ,,,and Unknowns.
They still need to protect themselves if Clark isn’t ready. It is downright scary if Lve gets hurt, where he has had durability issues in the past.
 

quickccc

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He is an edge player. They also lost a starting guard, both starting S, Hargraves, and Linval Joseph.

Nolan Smith is a nice pick as is the S from the third but they got ravaged in free agency and will not be the same team at all. Cohesion counts.
But don't they have Jordan Davis and Jalen Carter,? .... two of the most highly regarded DT draft prospects in the last few years.

It's a wait and see on once highly regarded Butkus winner, Nakobe Dean who will be the new LB,.. a year removed from the pec injury that cost him to fall in th eNFL draft.
but who were the vet LBs they lost in FA, that is supposed to be a valued loss ?

.Can you quickly name them (without looking it up per Google?) .. Were they household names ?
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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But don't they have Jordan Davis and Jalen Carter,? .... two of the most highly regarded DT draft prospects in the last few years.

It's a wait and see on once highly regarded Butkus winner, Nakobe Dean who will be the new LB,.. a year removed from the pec injury that cost him to fall in th eNFL draft.
but who were the vet LBs they lost in FA, that is supposed to be a valued loss ?

.Can you quickly name them (without looking it up per Google?) .. Were they household names ?
Jordan Davis was playing poorly and was beaten out towards the end of the year by Joseph. He was hurt but there were questions about his play strength.

And sure they have Carter. Who do you think is going to be better this year: Carter or Hargraves?

And then of course there is the corpse of Fletcher Cox and nothing else behind them. They do have plenty of DE and CB depth with SLay coming back. LB and S have several black holes talent wise.

My point is we have seen what happens when you have elite talent at a couple of spots and black holes elsewhere. For example in 2010, we had good corners and a dominant front 7 but then there was Alan Ball.
 

Mac_MaloneV1

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But don't they have Jordan Davis and Jalen Carter,? .... two of the most highly regarded DT draft prospects in the last few years.

It's a wait and see on once highly regarded Butkus winner, Nakobe Dean who will be the new LB,.. a year removed from the pec injury that cost him to fall in th eNFL draft.
but who were the vet LBs they lost in FA, that is supposed to be a valued loss ?

.Can you quickly name them (without looking it up per Google?) .. Were they household names ?
Jordan Davis sucks or they wouldn't have signed Suh and Joseph. Bad pick at the time and isn't going to get any better. Carter is a 1-for-1 replacement for Hargreaves last year.

Kyzir White and TJ Edwards played all 17 games, played in basically every situation, and had 200-something tackles between them. Dean might be a nice player, but he's not going to be an improvement over them, and you have to replace BOTH LBs, not just one.

The Eagles, best case scenario, have simply replaced the talent that they lost from last year. Smith might be an upgrade at edge, but that's TBD. The good news is that the defense wasn't really that good, so it's kind of a moot point. But what they're not going to have is the same ridiculous run of good health that they had last season. They're do for regression - the best thing they have going for them is that the NFC is terrible.
 

quickccc

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If Wagner had been signed, the cap would be a bit thin right now.
But Wagner is a superior player than LVE ..
- has been more durable than LVE ..
- and he makes the big plays turnovers that LVE does not .
- .plus he has a history of working with Quinn per Legion of Boom star defense.

Wagner's' new contract with Seattle was just one year 7 million,.. with $5.5 guarantee, and 1.5 million in incentives.
That's actually cap friendly deal.

Vander Esch's contract :
Two years, $8M, $2.5M signing bonus, $5M total guarantee,
up to $1M in per-game roster bonuses,
up to $2M in total incentives Base:
2023: $1.5M fully guaranteed
2024: $3M - $1M guaranteed
 

quickccc

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Jordan Davis was playing poorly and was beaten out towards the end of the year by Joseph. He was hurt but there were questions about his play strength.

And sure they have Carter. Who do you think is going to be better this year: Carter or Hargraves?

And then of course there is the corpse of Fletcher Cox and nothing else behind them. They do have plenty of DE and CB depth with SLay coming back. LB and S have several black holes talent wise.

My point is we have seen what happens when you have elite talent at a couple of spots and black holes elsewhere. For example in 2010, we had good corners and a dominant front 7 but then there was Alan Ball.
Rookies are not gonna be All pro their first years .. expect same for our own Massi Smith-

Trench wars are gonna be a nuisance to have to learn for rookie DT .

You don't draft for just one year .. You draft for the long term.
 

CCBoy

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But Wagner is a superior player than LVE ..
- has been more durable than LVE ..
- and he makes the big plays turnovers that LVE does not .
- .plus he has a history of working with Quinn per Legion of Boom star defense.

Wagner's' new contract with Seattle was just one year 7 million,.. with $5.5 guarantee, and 1.5 million in incentives.
That's actually cap friendly deal.

Vander Esch's contract :
Two years, $8M, $2.5M signing bonus, $5M total guarantee,
up to $1M in per-game roster bonuses,
up to $2M in total incentives Base:
2023: $1.5M fully guaranteed
2024: $3M - $1M guaranteed
Good share there. I think this defense is building a team strong unit that has a lot of flexability and is hard to take advantage on. This is year three of the rebuild directions.
 

big dog cowboy

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- Barr proved to be a slooooow, on fumes performer .. it was a reason why the former Pro Bowler was still on the street and available at summer's end.
And it's a reason why the Cowboys did not ask him back too.
That slowness showed.
Wasn't a fan of that signing and he didn't make a lot of plays last year. With the Cowboys playing a 4-2-5 defense they have the LB position covered enough.
 

quickccc

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Nope. Kearse and Dono are pretty much LB’s anyhow
The problem with the hybrid safeties trying to be LBs .. is when opposing teams get to our 5 yard line on the defensive side, you want guys that have the sand in the bag substance
that can take on the TEs and FBs vs the run, .....and LBs will even take the centers and OGs head on to disrupt run plays ..

.it becomes much harder when you're asking 205 safeties to be 230+ pound LBs in a very small phone booth.
- And that includes running and bouncing outside the interior ....
 

morasp

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Actually Harris did have skins .. being former DB coach with KC Chiefs who he was instrumental in development of Marcus Peters and Brandon Flowers and even Eric Berry

- What I like about Harris (whose not the primary DB coach per Joe Witt Jr.) is you have a great ex-CB who is teaching up and developing another great CB (Diggs)
and could be another in the making (Bland)

- Similar to having DWare, Haley and Witten as special guest consultants - Greatness teaching potential greatness.

- Edwards as Vikes DC helped Mike Zimmer produced a top defensive team but departed because Zimmer can be very difficult to deal with.
From what i had gathered was Quinn was caught off guard by surprise of the non-resigning of Edwards.
I like Harris, hope he can get more out of Joseph this year.

It's easy to speculate on Edwards departure but I do believe that DQ seems to have a lot of say on defensive matters and if he had pounded the table to keep him I believe he would still be here.

I felt like the LBs were the weakest position on defense last year and that could be for a lot of reasons including over compensating to stop the run.

I also think LB play will be better this year but it will be impossible to tell for sure if it's due to better coaching, maturation of young players, or better DT play or all of the above. I do like a few things MM has said about McCurley including his tireless attention to detail and being the last guy in the building. Kind of reminded me of Sean Lee.
 
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CCBoy

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20230606_DAL_Minicamp-88



"That D-line room is nasty," said Hankins, shaking his head in literal amazement. "Every time I talk about it, I'm just so excited and not just to talk about it, but to be a part of it. We're working hard, getting each other better and we're some bad (MFers). That's just the way we do things, and that's what our motto is."

The best thing about it all, as described by Hankins, is the unadulterated selflessness; and in how it's simply one of the best units he's ever been a part of, top to bottom, as one of the best defenses in the NFL has arguably become better one season later.
 

CT Dal Fan

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Jabril Cox has had an excellent offseason. Much like Gallup he wasn't himself coming off a knee injury last year and MM said something to that effect. Cox could be a nice sub package option at the least.
 
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