Cowboys obliterated other teams in 2018 attendance

[Future]

I can not speak for what post you responded to first. I can only explain the posts I've made in this thread. Your entire point of fan participation is not accurate. I've seen when teams stop buying and stop watching and stop going to games. That does happen. There is a reason that L.A. has lost multiple teams over the last several years. I think it's a mistake to think that fan bases will care no matter what but if that's your opinion, that's fine with me. I don't agree with it though.

The first post I responded to was yours haha

But what you're talking about does not have to do with winning or losing, especially now. 30 years ago maybe, but not in today's NFL. Miami and SF were #3 and #4 in attendance this year, Pittsburgh, Dallas and the Rams were 26, 27 and 31. KC was only 14th. There's just nothing about winning that correlates to attendance and, even if it did, the profit change based on that would be so small as to not matter. It's the same for jersey sales - the Giants, Broncos, Packers and Oakland were all in the top 10, and all terrible.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Ur reference to 2016 vs the packers.

We had them. We gave up a lot of yards, GB on their own 25 yard lines with 35 seconds left, including a huge 4th down play that would have secured the game for us. I mean, it's hard for me to say that we were good enough that year. I just don't think we were but again, what difference does it make? It is what it is.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The first post I responded to was yours haha

But what you're talking about does not have to do with winning or losing, especially now. 30 years ago maybe, but not in today's NFL. Miami and SF were #3 and #4 in attendance this year, Pittsburgh, Dallas and the Rams were 26, 27 and 31. KC was only 14th. There's just nothing about winning that correlates to attendance and, even if it did, the profit change based on that would be so small as to not matter. It's the same for jersey sales - the Giants, Broncos, Packers and Oakland were all in the top 10, and all terrible.

Did you read my response? I can not speak for what you respond to or with. I can only speak for what I say. Doesn't matter if you responded to my post or somebody elses. Why do you continue to stick to this whole attendance thing? I've already explained to you that it is not just attendance I'm talking about. Now, if you want to say that attendance, audience and merchandising are not effected by winning and losing, that's a different thing all together. Is that what you are trying to say?

 

[Future]

Did you read my response? I can not speak for what you respond to or with. I can only speak for what I say. Doesn't matter if you responded to my post or somebody elses. Why do you continue to stick to this whole attendance thing? I've already explained to you that it is not just attendance I'm talking about. Now, if you want to say that attendance, audience and merchandising are not effected by winning and losing, that's a different thing all together. Is that what you are trying to say?

Well what you originally said was about attendance, that's why I'm saying it.

But yes, look at jersey sales too. None of that stuff is influenced by wins and losses to the degree that it influences bottom lines enough to make any sort of difference.

 

[CouchCoach]

What surprising is 70k a week showed up to watch the jets/giants lose

But they pull from 9M+ and both of those teams have some real diehard NY type fans.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well what you originally said was about attendance, that's why I'm saying it.

But yes, look at jersey sales too. None of that stuff is influenced by wins and losses to the degree that it influences bottom lines enough to make any sort of difference.

That's incorrect. My first post was, and I quote:

"More proof that Garrett's job is safe. There is no reason to make a chance."

This was in response to the following:

Want to take a guess at which fan base is showing up to their home games? Some may guess it may be the Atlanta Falcons who famously lowered concession prices to a historically low amount. Others may say teams that went deep in the post season like the Kansas City Chiefs New England Patriots or New Orleans Saints.

The team that put the most fans in the seats is also the team that also draws the highest TV ratings: The Dallas Cowboys.


That is what I responded to initially and everything I've responded with, since is also adjunct to that initial post.

 

[conner01]

But they pull from 9M+ and both of those teams have some real diehard NY type fans.

They do
Bad weather
Bad teams
And they still show up

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

But yes, look at jersey sales too. None of that stuff is influenced by wins and losses to the degree that it influences bottom lines enough to make any sort of difference.

So again I ask, are you saying that all three of the things I mentioned earlier are not effected by winning and losing? Is that what you are saying, I am trying to pin this down so that I understand clearly what your position is.

 

[visionary]

Want to take a guess at which fan base is showing up to their home games? Some may guess it may be the Atlanta Falcons who famously lowered concession prices to a historically low amount. Others may say teams that went deep in the post season like the Kansas City Chiefs New England Patriots or New Orleans Saints.

The team that put the most fans in the seats is also the team that also draws the highest TV ratings: The Dallas Cowboys.

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/2019/02/21/dallas-cowboys-2018-attendance-2019-projection/

While getting obliterated on the field in the process

That's all this franchise is any more

Revenue

Not championships

 

[Future]

That's incorrect. My first post was, and I quote:

Your first post that I responded to. Whatever, it doesn't matter.

So again I ask, are you saying that all three of the things I mentioned earlier are not effected by winning and losing? Is that what you are saying, I am trying to pin this down so that I understand clearly what your position is.

Yes, at least not to the degree that they impact a financial bottom line so much that an organization would make a coaching change because of it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Your first post that I responded to. Whatever, it doesn't matter.

Yes, at least not to the degree that they impact a financial bottom line so much that an organization would make a coaching change because of it.

What sort of data do you base this information on? I mean, I have to say that this has not been my experience, at all. If you are losing to the point where you are losing your fan base, and that does happen in the NFL, then what would lead you to the conclusion that coaching staffs wouldn't be fired? Further, how much money does this impact and how much would make a GM consider firing their HC? Do you have any correlative data that supports this or have you posted something already in this thread and I have just missed it? If so, I apologies, could you point me to it again?

 

[Rockport]

More proof that Garrett's job is safe. There is no reason to make a chance.

What does Garret have to do with it?

 

[Future]

What sort of data do you base this information on? I mean, I have to say that this has not been my experience, at all. If you are losing to the point where you are losing your fan base, and that does happen in the NFL, then what would lead you to the conclusion that coaching staffs wouldn't be fired? Further, how much money does this impact and how much would make a GM consider firing their HC? Do you have any correlative data that supports this or have you posted something already in this thread and I have just missed it? If so, I apologies, could you point me to it again?

This post, mostly.

There's just no correlation between winning and profit, especially as it relates to coaching. All organizations run like the Cowboys - profit first, with profit not dependent on ticket sales.

Ticket sales, the primary item impacted by a team's success, aren't a driver of profitability. The TV revenue for the league is over $7b, giving each team ~$226m. If a team averages 75,000 fans at $120 a ticket 10 times, that's only $72m, which is extremely high at over 30% of TV revenue. It's more likely that a team averages 65,000 fans at $110, for 8 games, for $57m. That extra $15m doesn't influence coaching changes, as it's only a small percentage of operating budget. Average ticket sales as a % of revenue is less than 20% and steadily dropping.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193364/percentage-of-ticketing-revenue-in-the-nfl-since-2006/

Dallas actually ranked 27th in terms of capacity, this year. So it's not like they're maximizing ticket profits anyways. Jerry doesn't care about the revenue from the additional 9% attendance, nor would any other NFL owner.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/sort/homePct

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This post, mostly.

There's just no correlation between winning and profit, especially as it relates to coaching. All organizations run like the Cowboys - profit first, with profit not dependent on ticket sales.

Ticket sales, the primary item impacted by a team's success, aren't a driver of profitability. The TV revenue for the league is over $7b, giving each team ~$226m. If a team averages 75,000 fans at $120 a ticket 10 times, that's only $72m, which is extremely high at over 30% of TV revenue. It's more likely that a team averages 65,000 fans at $110, for 8 games, for $57m. That extra $15m doesn't influence coaching changes, as it's only a small percentage of operating budget. Average ticket sales as a % of revenue is less than 20% and steadily dropping.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193364/percentage-of-ticketing-revenue-in-the-nfl-since-2006/

Dallas actually ranked 27th in terms of capacity, this year. So it's not like they're maximizing ticket profits anyways. Jerry doesn't care about the revenue from the additional 9% attendance, nor would any other NFL owner.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/sort/homePct

OK but we've already determined that my posts were not specific to just tickets sales. I mean, if that has not already been proven by my previous posts, then I don't know what to say. All three effect profit so all three contribute to earnings. I can not say that the post you referred to above prove that Coaches do not get fired, based on winning and losing. Losing teams typically lose TV audiences. Most fan bases can not field a losing team for 25 years and still draw the way the Cowboys do. That's pretty much unheard of in modern sports. The Cowboys and Jerry are very unique in this way. Other teams, if they are losing for an extended period of time, TV viewership drops, attendance drops and merchandising drops. At that point, Owners are forced to make changes because, if they don't, the run the risk of losing their franchise. All teams share in the pot so owners do get pressure to increase revenue and that can translate into coaching staffs getting fired. The article you posted above actually supports this in it's remarks on viewship.

If your initial read is that I was specifically referring to attendance, then I see where you are going and understand your points but honestly, I think I have clearly stated my position at this point and it should be clear that attendance is not and never was my sole point. It was profits as they are related to all three revenue streams and how winning ties into all of that.

I mean, the bottom line is winning, or for most clubs anyway. I just think the Cowboys are unique and the normal rules somehow don't apply. That's the Fan Base and that's good and bad IMO.

 

[MizzouCowboy4]

Arrowhead is not that great of a stadium tbh

 

[Ranched]

But they pull from 9M+ and both of those teams have some real diehard NY type fans.

They do
Bad weather
Bad teams
And they still show up

Who's bad beside the Jets? Giants with their 4 Superbowl Championships? Pats? Steelers? Yankees? Red Sox?

Being your using the Bad weather excuse for Bad teams is absolutely asinine. The Northeast not only has the most Superbowl championships, but it also has the most World Series championships.

That's enough proof that weather has absolutely no impact whatsoever when it comes to winning championships. You better believe it They still show up. Is there a reason they shouldn't?!

Ravens: 2 Superbowl championships
Skins: 3 Superbowl championships
Giants: 4 Superbowl championships
Steelers: 6 Superbowl championships
Pats: 6 Superbowl championships
Eagles: 1 Superbowl championship
22 Superbowl Championships

Red Sox: 9 WS
Yankees: 27 WS
Phillies: 2 WS
Mets: 2 WS
40 World Series Championships

Hockey & Basketball? You get the idea.

 

[conner01]

Who's bad beside the Jets? Giants with their 4 Superbowl Championships? Pats? Steelers? Yankees? Red Sox?

Being your using the Bad weather excuse for Bad teams is absolutely asinine. The Northeast not only has the most Superbowl championships, but it also has the most World Series championships.

That's enough proof that weather has absolutely no impact whatsoever when it comes to winning championships. You better believe it They still show up. Is there a reason they shouldn't?!

Ravens: 2 Superbowl championships
Skins: 3 Superbowl championships
Giants: 4 Superbowl championships
Steelers: 6 Superbowl championships
Pats: 6 Superbowl championships
Eagles: 1 Superbowl championship

Every team in the region has nothing to do with attendance at that stadium
The jets have won 18 games in the last 3 years combined. The giants have won 8 games in the last two years combined
They are bad teams
The OP is about attendance at that stadium which is jets/giants

 

[Jake]

Want to take a guess at which fan base is showing up to their home games? Some may guess it may be the Atlanta Falcons who famously lowered concession prices to a historically low amount. Others may say teams that went deep in the post season like the Kansas City Chiefs New England Patriots or New Orleans Saints.

The team that put the most fans in the seats is also the team that also draws the highest TV ratings: The Dallas Cowboys.

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/2019/02/21/dallas-cowboys-2018-attendance-2019-projection/

"America's Team", merchandise sales, TV ratings, attendance...I don't care about any of those things.

I care that conference championship games no longer involve the Dallas Cowboys.