Cowboys refused to trade Carpenter

Doomsday

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Redball Express;2069230 said:
Look.

BP is part of the reason Carpenter has failed. The fact he'd want him now only means Carpenter can play and he can be salvaged and BP has figured out a way to play him.

I only wish our coaches would take the same attitude.

I dont think you can put Carp's playing time on anyone but Carp. Wade showed last year he was willing to play a variety of different players in a variety of different situations regardless of their experience. Given that fact you have to assume that Carp just wasnt getting it done.
 

Chocolate Lab

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jackrussell;2069335 said:
Man that really bothers me...everyone so quick to throw Carp under the bus but continually ignore the coaches admission. This is a major error in coaching, something not to be expected from such a veteran presence.

I still think that was just Wade protecting his player, which he's going to do in the media. Carpenter got some chances earlier in the year and he was terrible.

That said, unlike Fasano, who I think had no upside at all, Carpenter does have a lot of ability. IMO he just needed an attitude adjustment, which maybe being benched most of last year will do.

That and a healthy quad.
 

theogt

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Good. Sometime this year or next he'll be our starting Mo 'backer for years to come.
 

dmq

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This stuff all begs the question, if Akin was so bad that he was worthless to us how was he still the starter at the end of the year?
 

Redball Express

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jackrussell;2069335 said:
Man that really bothers me...everyone so quick to throw Carp under the bus but continually ignore the coaches admission. This is a major error in coaching, something not to be expected from such a veteran presence.

My feeling when Phillips came in as HC was that 3-4 players needed to emerge in the Phillips defense and on this team if it was to be the dominating defense we want it to be.

1) Carp had to get time and be developed and the rust removed and made servicable within the schemes and prove Phillips and his statements when he became HC that he adapted his schemes to the players to get the results instead of the other way around, which is what the approach was under BP.

This fell flat on it's face and later as you said, Phillips admitted they hadn't given Carp enough of an opportunity.

I blame that on too many defensive coaches on the staff still that were hired by BP and had made up their minds Carpenter wasn't good enough. Phillips listened and let the lock remain on Carp's jailcell without personally taking control and finding the real answers himself.

I think that is on Phillips and a negative failure that needs to be changed.

2) we needed Marcus Spears to step up and become a factor in these new 3-4 defensive schemes. Another #1 draft pick that is under-achievig for unknown reasons. I saw little change in his play and didn't see him be a factor in the pass rush and was even subbed for as the season wore on in passing situations.

This again is hard to figure out. Spears at LSU was a dominate DL. He's been in the NFL now for going on 3 years and he's just a role player. I still think the coaches have to change this in a hurry if this team is going to improve on defense.

Teams are throwing almost exclusively on us in 1st and 2nd downs knowing we don't have our pass rush players on the field and therefore we have to get more of a pass rush from Spears in this defense in addition to his run play ability.

I didn't think Phillips and his coaches did much with getting Spears more involved. Another negative with another former #1 we need to excell given the investment.

3) Roy Williams. I won't go into that as it's abundant in other threads. The change to the Phillips 3-4didn't do anything to use RW's strengths and only further maximized his deficiencies in the eyes of many as the coaches continued to struggle to get Williams into positions that would let him make plays.

This to me is on the coaches but there is some shared problems the player has to work on, too.

But again, the buck stops with the coaches to get the most from the players they have. On that basis, I think it was a failure, despite the fact he went to the Pro Bowl again. It wasn't as good as it needs to be.

4) Obviously, without a doubt. Julius Jones. He's gone and I'll not beat a dead horse, but I thought the coaches failed to get him back to playing and they have that responsibility to get it done.

It didn't come close to happening in the case of JuJo and he actually regressed.

So now we start over with Felix Jones.

So these 4 players, all of which were undercheivers and players coming out of the BP Era, in which significant investments have been made in their acquisitions, either didn't improve under Phillips or even imploded as in the Julius Jones case.

So to me, until these 3 guys left on the team after the Jones departure to Seattle, are brought up to speed and added to the talent levels already peaking, we are still into some problems until they are all resolved to the positive for the team and contributing to expected levels.

This is one of the major changes that still must be seen in the months ahead. And all three significant deficiencies are on the defense, which is supposed to be the Phillips specialty.

We really can't afford to just jetison them and it's now Phillip's watch to get it corrected.

So I agree with you, the coaches have to take responsibility and make the changes in the player's roles or the schemes to get the value from them as players and not just sit back and say it's the player's fault or they are not motivated or whatever.

We can't afford to just keep re-drafting #1 and #2 picks to replace the screwups. We need the #1 and #2 picks we have already on the team to perform now, heck or high water.

Let's go coaches and take responsibility and stop making excuses.

My 2 cents.

:starspin ReDBaLL ExPreSS :starspin
 

HoosierCowboy

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Redball Express;2069230 said:
Look.

BP is part of the reason Carpenter has failed. The fact he'd want him now only means Carpenter can play and he can be salvaged and BP has figured out a way to play him.

I only wish our coaches would take the same attitude.

All the more reason..at this point, I'd like us to close off the Dallas-to-Miami connection.

Hopefully everybody who wants to follow BP and Ireland there have gotten their wish.

Let's just move on.

The only other player worth discussing in Miami is Jason Taylor.

And the closer it gets to TC, the less valuable he is in any trade as he would be missing valuable time with a new team to learn their defense.

So maybe we could do a deal on him but that's it.

Beyond any interest in that, I think Mr. BP is on his own from here on out without anymore contributions from us and I think we've gotten rid of all the deadwood we can there.

:starspin ReDBaLL ExPreSS :starspin


Parcells is an egomaniacal control freak who has no idea what to do with Carpenter--all the deadwood is his deadwood
 

AbeBeta

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theogt;2069351 said:
Good. Sometime this year or next he'll be our starting Mo 'backer for years to come.

I want to believe but we've had two coaches who are very LB-centric not give him reps. So I find it hard to believe that he'll turn the corner.
 

NorthTexan95

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Eddie;2069199 said:
Jerry Jones would have been a moron to agree to trade former 1st and 2nd round draft picks for a 4th rounder.
:lmao2:

No ... wait ... were you serious? By your logic ... since Ryan Leaf was a former first round pick ... let's sign him so we can trade him for a high draft pick. David Carr was a first round pick. Let's get him so we can trade him for a high draft pick.

No NFL team cares what round they were drafted in. If a guy stinks he's not going to be worth much in a trade regardless of what round he was drafted. Fasano might have been a former 2nd round pick but that's over with. Considering he hasn't done much in the NFL, has a reputation of not being the smartest player, and has had two surgeries on his shoulder already ... we should be fortunate to get a 4th round pick.

I would imagine that if we had dealt Carpenter we would have received a higher pick but to say that we should receive some specific return on a trade merely because of a players original draft position is stupid.
 

JackMagist

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stasheroo;2069201 said:
I'm glad they didn't.

I'd rather keep an unknown and trade away a known mediocre player.

Not to mention I thought that the cap cost of moving Carpenter was prohibitive.

I'd like to see him get a year to learn behind Zach Thomas and see what he can become.
A year my ***...he's had 2 already...It's time to get in there and play or hit the road. If he is not a starter this year he is a full on bust.
 

tomson75

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dmq;2069353 said:
This stuff all begs the question, if Akin was so bad that he was worthless to us how was he still the starter at the end of the year?

Apparently Burnett wasn't good enough to supplant him.
 

DaBoys4Life

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shoulda traded him he had so many tackles last year i mean 18 that head to be the most on the team...
 

Cochese

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Good. I would have been even more pissed off at that trade knowing that we sent two of Parcells frivoulous draft picks back to him for almost nothing in return.
 

dbair1967

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reddyuta;2069343 said:
please-lets see what he does in his new "role".I was not impressed by him when we drafted him and still not impressed.If i was a 1st pick then I would be spitting mad if I was relegated to ST-instead he goes on holidays and stars in country singer video-bahhh.

he played pretty well in the Atlanta-Dallas game I went to his rookie yr, then had a really good playoff game at Seattle

I still think he has a chance to pan out..if they'd put him in one place and leave him there, he'd probably have a better chance...I thnik if he has a good TC and preseason this yr, he'll see the field on defense a decent amount this yr

David
 

Chuck 54

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The other possibility, which I hope isn't true, is that Parcells knows Carp is a bust, and he thought he could pick up a good Special Teams cover guy in the deal...maybe they all lit up with smiles when Akin, an actual starter, was added.

I hate to imagine that possibility. I'm pulling for Carp to come on and at least be as solid as Brady James, who, by the way, looked like a bust and took a while to get on the field.
 

big dog cowboy

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reddyuta;2069343 said:
please-lets see what he does in his new "role".I was not impressed by him when we drafted him and still not impressed.If i was a 1st pick then I would be spitting mad if I was relegated to ST-instead he goes on holidays and stars in country singer video-bahhh.
Please what?

Those were not my words they were Wade's.
 

sago1

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Came across this tidbit while reading bloggingtheboys.com website re Bobby Carpenter. I just knew Thomas could help Carpenter. Hopefully Thomas continues to mentor Carpenter & Carpenter learns all he can from Thomas. With his size, Thomas didn't survive in the NFL for so long at a pro bowl level w/o learning all the nuances/angles about his own position, those positions/players around him & his opponents. Anybody who spent his offseason studying extensive game film of every playoff/SB contending team he wanted to play on to see where he could fit in/contribute is one smart dude. Like him even more cause he turned down the Pats & NO & told Denver he was going to sign with another team; thank God he chose the Cowboys. Anyway, ...

Carpenter is now backing up veteran Zach Thomas. Carpenter said he's been studying game film with Thomas and already has picked up quite a bit in the short time the veteran free-agent acquisition has been with the Cowboys.
 

fortdick

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JackMagist;2069388 said:
A year my ***...he's had 2 already...It's time to get in there and play or hit the road. If he is not a starter this year he is a full on bust.
Let's not forget Spencer. HE couldn't even move out Ellis who was coming off a serious injury. If Spencer doesn't replace Ellis this season, then he is officially a bust.

Maybe BP will trade for Ellis and Spencer can make or break it this year.
 

NorthTexan95

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fortdick;2069460 said:
Let's not forget Spencer. HE couldn't even move out Ellis who was coming off a serious injury. If Spencer doesn't replace Ellis this season, then he is officially a bust.

Maybe BP will trade for Ellis and Spencer can make or break it this year.

Spencer showed me enough last year that I have no doubts he won't be a bust. I think he'll finish his career with multiple Pro Bowls.
 

Beast_from_East

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fortdick;2069460 said:
Let's not forget Spencer. HE couldn't even move out Ellis who was coming off a serious injury. If Spencer doesn't replace Ellis this season, then he is officially a bust.

Maybe BP will trade for Ellis and Spencer can make or break it this year.

A 2nd year player has to beat out a probowler this year or he is a bust?

:eek:
 

fortdick

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Beast_from_East;2069616 said:
A 2nd year player has to beat out a probowler this year or he is a bust?

:eek:

Why not? That is the standard that everyone used on Carpnter. His second year and he could not start ahead of James or Ellis, so he is a bust.

I just don't understand the Carpenter hate here. He played well his first year when Ellis was out. Last year he got hurt in camp, changed positions, and didn't get the chance he deserved. Wade's words.

Folks gotta stop and look at what they are saying and not be hyporitical.
 
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