RELEASED Cowboys Release DE Damontre Moore

[Dhragon]

I'm trying to be patient. Encouraging even.

I thought Taco made some plays this past Sunday. I know he caused a 4th down incompletion and I've mentioned that a few times now. And I'm glad he'll be seeing more opportunities in place of Mayowa.

But when someone brings up the subject, I can't help but think back to that draft day decision. Watt has been ready to go since game one, and we're talking about "two or three years" for Taco?

That's rough.

Do you think a 4-3 DE and a 3-4 OLB are the same thing in regards to body type and responsibilities required? If so, I can see your frustration.

TJ has worked out very well really quickly as a 3-4 OLB (though most of his wow stats occurred in his first game - 2 sacks and an INT and the rest of the year has only been good, not great). He might have totally bombed thus far if he was a 4-3 DE, we will never know (being a Watt, he would most likely be doing better than Taco has thus far, but we can't prove that so personally I don't dwell on it. Only if he was doing the same as a 4-3 DE would I be moaning about it).

If you are being patient though in giving him a whole 6 games to perform at an elite or at least above average level though, can't help but think you are NOT a very patient man, LOL.

 

[Sydla]

There in lies the real problem, you think you can snap your fingers and instantly fill all the holes on defense in one draft and offseason? Maybe you didn't realize the magnitude of the holes on this defense.


They have been a "smart franchise" for a while now. They have missed on draft picks and free agent signings, but they also have built a very impressive offense, almost entirely thru the draft, which proves they are a "smart franchise". You're issue seems to be the FO hasn't rebuilt the defense fast enough to suit your liking nor did they sign any of your favorite free agents.

They do have a hole at the 1 technique, but having Irving back helps alleviate that. They also have some very talented cbs to fill the gap that Carroll left behind.


Luckily? Unless your sole purpose is to constantly bash the FO, why not give them credit? They did a heckuva of a job in drafting Lewis, Awuzie, and Woods. That's three potential starters in one draft. That's very impressive, but when you're agenda driven to constantly criticize the FO such as yourself, I guess not.


I've seen your idea of signing "a mid-level FA or two", talk about meh, neither Hyde, nor Poe, have done anything other then be average. The FO has bombed on their free agent signings, but they were, as you put it, "bargain bin" signings. Other then being disappointed that they failed, these signings will not cripple the team salary cap wise, going forward. Again, your dissatisfaction because the FO did not fix every hole on defense in one off season, and did not sign any of your favorite players in free agency is delusional, and feels more of a rant and rave episode.

For starters, Irving isn't a real 1 tech. He's a 3-tech, SDE. He's a band aid that likely will have to play a bit out of position because they failed at addressing the actual need.

I actually gave them credit for the rookie DBs. I said earlier it's the one real thing from this entire offseason being a total disaster.

Your last paragraph is interesting. Hyde is leading the league in interceptions for a Buffalo defense that is Top 5 in scoring D. But yeah, he's "average". You also talk about deals that will not cripple the team cap wise going forward as if I am arguing the Cowboys had to out and drop tens of millions on a guy like Gilmore or Bouye. I never suggested that. In fact, I've said the exact opposite multiple times. A guy like Logan or Poe, two guys who make your run D better and make the defense better are on one year deals. They aren't hurting your cap at all. Shoot, Carroll and Thornton will cost more against the 2018 cap than those two would have. Hyde signed a very fair deal for a safety where his cap hit never gets above $6.7MM in any year. Definitely not cap crushing. So stop with this idea that I am proposing cap crushing ideas. It's intellectually lazy to keep arguing the whole "you can't kill the cap" angle.

 

[jjktkk]

Nice try at a strawman. That's never been said or claimed. What else ya got?

Don't move the goalpost Stash. This is just another reason for you to bash on the FO because they failed to draft your pet cat from the previous draft in Watt. Watt is a 3-4 OLB, not a 4-3 DE. Maybe Watt can play the 4-3 DE position, but apparently the FO did not believe so.

 

[Stash]

Do you think a 4-3 DE and a 3-4 OLB are the same thing in regards to body type and responsibilities required? If so, I can see your frustration.

I'm saying that plenty of teams and plenty of players have made the transition. Charles Haley at about 240 lbs, came to Dallas as a 3-4 linebacker. How'd that work out? When Dallas went back to the 4-3 defense, amazingly, both Ware and Spencer magically became 4-3 ends overnight. Funny how that works?

But apparently, it's only acceptable when Dallas does it and not when they don't? Is that what I'm getting here?

TJ has worked out very well really quickly as a 3-4 OLB (though most of his wow stats occurred in his first game - 2 sacks and an INT and the rest of the year has only been good, not great).

And for the record, who did he match up with in that "first game"?

He might have totally bombed thus far if he was a 4-3 DE, we will never know (being a Watt, he would most likely be doing better than Taco has thus far, but we can't prove that so personally I don't dwell on it. Only if he was doing the same as a 4-3 DE would I be moaning about it).

If you are being patient though in giving him a whole 6 games to perform at an elite or at least above average level though, can't help but think you are NOT a very patient man, LOL.

Again, I'm not mentioning the disparity between Watt and Taco until someone brings it up.

But if you're talking about "two and three years" worth of patience? Yeah, not happening. Not from me, and certainly not from a team with a considerable investment and any championship aspirations.

 

[Sydla]

Don't move the goalpost Stash. This is just another reason for you to bash on the FO because they failed to draft your pet cat from the previous draft in Watt. Watt is a 3-4 OLB, not a 4-3 DE. Maybe Watt can play the 4-3 DE position, but apparently the FO did not believe so.

Actually I thought it came out that the FO did think he could play DE and be a situational rush end for them. I recall Stephen or someone saying that Marinelli was on board with finding ways to use him.

Apparently they got weak over his injury history and just thought Charlton was a better fit. I honestly can't blame them for not taking Watt. I liked him a lot but his injury history was downright scary.

 

[Alexander]

I watch almost all Green Bay games. Hyde just an OK player there.

He is in Buffalo now and he is a key member of their defense.

 

[Stash]

Don't move the goalpost Stash. This is just another reason for you to bash on the FO because they failed to draft your pet cat from the previous draft in Watt. Watt is a 3-4 OLB, not a 4-3 DE. Maybe Watt can play the 4-3 DE position, but apparently the FO did not believe so.

I'm not "moving" anything. If anyone is trying to do that, it's you. You're the guy trying to attribute claims never made.

Maybe, what "the FO believed" was wrong?

Just like the mounting evidence and all these players being gone already shows.

The evidence is clearly mounting.

 

[Stash]

Actually I thought it came out that the FO did think he could play DE and be a situational rush end for them. I recall Stephen or someone saying that Marinelli was on board with finding ways to use him.

Apparently they got weak over his injury history and just thought Charlton was a better fit. I honestly can't blame them for not taking Watt. I liked him a lot but his injury history was downright scary.

Everything I've read and heard said that the scouts wanted Watt and Garrett and Marinelli wanted Charlton. And got their way.

And they should receive all rewards or repercussions for that decision accordingly.

 

[Sydla]

He is in Buffalo now and he is a key member of their defense.

And again, no one said Hyde was Eric Berry and that's the kind of S you would be signing. But Hyde was a very solid, productive, important second tier S that would have made this team better in the secondary considering he's much better than Jeff Heath.

The contortions people will do in order to justify the Cowboys FA plan is funny. Arguing that Hyde isn't some stud S when no one said he was or expected him to be. Railing about killing the future cap, when people are suggesting they should have looked at Poe or Logan at the 1 tech and both are on one year deals and have no future cap considerations if the Cowboys just wanted to let them walk.

 

[jjktkk]

Actually I thought it came out that the FO did think he could play DE and be a situational rush end for them. I recall Stephen or someone saying that Marinelli was on board with finding ways to use him.

Apparently they got weak over his injury history and just thought Charlton was a better fit. I honestly can't blame them for not taking Watt. I liked him a lot but his injury history was downright scary.

I can't recall which scouts, or draft analysts, but I remember that there were concerns about Watt's size in playing a DE in a 4-3 scheme.

 

[Alexander]

And I really am loving the cherry picking in hindsight that people are doing to criticize the Cowboys. I do not recall a lot of talk about Hyde or these other FA in March. It was all about Bouye, Gilmore, and Perry.

That is because nearly FA period, many fans think Dallas will be competitive for the top free agents and they never are.

That is more of naivety at work than anything else. Not going after the top talent and taking the risk on a bust is cautious and sometimes it can pay off by simple avoidance. Anybody can do that.

But somewhere, there is a middle ground between being completely cheap and getting what you pay for versus a quality deal that does not kill the cap.

At the end of the period, there are always good players who sign cheaply and sometimes they work out. There have been examples like Casey Heyward, for one.

Our problem is identifying them. We don't get the apples slimed by other rotten apples. We tend to get the ones that are truly rotting and think they can be salvaged. There is a difference.

I think even the average fan could look at talent like Moore, Paea and Carroll and not get excited about it. Then you see a lot of the same people who were talking about how Carroll was okay as a bridge, Paea was good because he was cheap and knew Marinelli's system and how Moore oozed potential are the same ones just dismissing it now as win some, lose some.

 

[Sydla]

Everything I've read and heard said that the scouts wanted Watt and Garrett and Marinelli wanted Charlton. And got their way.

And they should receive all rewards or repercussions for that decision accordingly.

Yeah I think Marinelli liked Charlton better but they clearly considered taking Watt. He came in for a visit to the facility. They actually had Marinelli pitch a plan on how they would use him. This was all reported in the Dallas paper.

 

[dallasdave]

Everything I've read and heard said that the scouts wanted Watt and Garrett and Marinelli wanted Charlton. And got their way.

And they should receive all rewards or repercussions for that decision accordingly.

Should have got WATT

 

[dallasdave]

I'm saying that plenty of teams and plenty of players have made the transition. Charles Haley at about 240 lbs, came to Dallas as a 3-4 linebacker. How'd that work out? When Dallas went back to the 4-3 defense, amazingly, both Ware and Spencer magically became 4-3 ends overnight. Funny how that works?

But apparently, it's only acceptable when Dallas does it and not when they don't? Is that what I'm getting here?



And for the record, who did he match up with in that "first game"?



Again, I'm not mentioning the disparity between Watt and Taco until someone brings it up.

But if you're talking about "two and three years" worth of patience? Yeah, not happening. Not from me, and certainly not from a team with a considerable investment and any championship aspirations.

The Time is NOW !!!

 

[Sydla]

I can't recall which scouts, or draft analysts, but I remember that there were concerns about Watt's size in playing a DE in a 4-3 scheme.

There were definitely concerns from scouts and analysts but the Cowboys clearly considered him and thought they could use him. They used one of their official team visits to bring him into The Star and Watt talked about how Marinelli laid out this plan on how they would use him as a DE and LB.

So to say the Cowboys didn't really consider him because he wasn't a fit isn't exactly true. I think they just liked Charlton better being a pure DE and were scared of Watt's extensive leg injury history. Can't blame them for that (the injury side of it).

 

[Alexander]

I can't recall which scouts, or draft analysts, but I remember that there were concerns about Watt's size in playing a DE in a 4-3 scheme.

Well Charlton has the size to play in a 4-3, but has one now laughable pass rush move.

Take your pick. Every down ineffectiveness for four quarters or a lighter workload for a potential impact play in a game.

The way the DL is rotated, I find it hard to believe he would be overexposed to the point where his size would matter.

 

[jjktkk]

I'm not "moving" anything. If anyone is trying to do that, it's you. You're the guy trying to attribute claims never made.

Maybe, what "the FO believed" was wrong?

Just like the mounting evidence and all these players being gone already shows.

The evidence is clearly mounting.

Maybe? Maybe if Watt played in a 4-3. In your quest to bash the FO you're already labeling Taco a bust after 6 games? Wow that's pretty quick. Taco has been a disappointment, but I'm not ready to give up on him so quickly.

 

[jjktkk]

There were definitely concerns from scouts and analysts but the Cowboys clearly considered him and thought they could use him. They used one of their official team visits to bring him into The Star and Watt talked about how Marinelli laid out this plan on how they would use him as a DE and LB.

So to say the Cowboys didn't really consider him because he wasn't a fit isn't exactly true. I think they just liked Charlton better being a pure DE and were scared of Watt's extensive leg injury history. Can't blame them for that (the injury side of it).

Also the size difference in Taco and Watt, who by the way, I like as a player.

 

[Stash]

Yeah I think Marinelli liked Charlton better but they clearly considered taking Watt. He came in for a visit to the facility. They actually had Marinelli pitch a plan on how they would use him. This was all reported in the Dallas paper.

Yeah, I thought it was a bad call then, and nothing that's occurred since has done anything to change my mind.

If anything, the results support the belief that they got it wrong.

Add it to the list!

 

[jjktkk]

Well Charlton has the size to play in a 4-3, but has one now laughable pass rush move.

Take your pick. Every down ineffectiveness for four quarters or a lighter workload for a potential impact play in a game.

The way the DL is rotated, I find it hard to believe he would be overexposed to the point where his size would matter.

This pick of Taco over Watt definitely can blow up in the Cowboy's face. I'm disappointed in Taco, but I'm not ready to give up on him after 6 games. I