News: Cowboys restructure Fredrick's and Tyron's contracts

[Toruk_Makto]

It does impact Leary. Paying him $7 million a year would be much more palatable without the Crawford deal on the books, and much better bang for the buck too.

That's just silly talk. Not investing in Leary is a matter of having a capable cheaper alternative and not investing soo much into a single position group. You may not like Crawford the player but i'd rather invest an additional 7mm a year into defensive line than offensive line.

I would hate for you to be our GM.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Player A- where we going to visit for FA...I like Dallas
Agent- they got no cap space...pass
Player A- dang ....let's go to TB, CAR, NE, OAK, TENN

That's the worst agent in the world if he said that.

Now you guys are making up cartoon characters.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Seriously man, quit trying to shame me because I have a different opinion. Your arguments boil down to "you should be ashamed" or "you're being stupid" 90% of the time. Try and act with some class.

If you cannot see the benefit of being prepared beforehand going into a negotiation then we will just have to agree to disagree.

Being prepared means knowing where you'd go for cap space if you need it. Not preemptively creating cap space which can either be harmless or extremely painful.... Largely based on things outside of your control. It's a stupid strategy and it's why we don't do it.

 

[Stash]

Who did Marinelli start at LDE? He started both Crawfords over Irving all year long. Irving did most of his damage at 3T plus he doesn't have many moves and struggles to counter when working outside.

The Tampa Bay game was against a hurt, Haydenesque starter in Cherilus and his UDFA journeyman backup who they rotated because the starter was so bad. I like you cherry picking though.

So qualifiers for Irving's play, excuses for Crawford's, gotcha. The fact is that the team got better when Crawford was out of the lineup. Some of their best performances were when the guy didn't play. Sacks went up across the board when he was missing time.

In a 3 man rotation where Collins and Crawford starts playing 2/3 of the snaps and Irving moves around filling in sees them all get the same number of snaps. They would all be frontline players regardless of who plays the first snap.

Sure. Other than the fact that one guy is making $7 million while the other two cost peanuts, sure, same thing.

Reworking Crawford's deal has no impact on us keeping him or not. He has value which you completely ignored.

I never said he didn't have value. He doesn't have anywhere near $7 million value. And if the Cowboys could get out of paying it, they would. You yourself have admitted he's overpaid, and you're defending him. You really think the Cowboys don't agree that he's overpaid?

He is on par with Paul and Graham in terms of 4-3 LDE production. He is going to cost a lot less than it would be to obtain JPP.

Cowboys fanspeak. Nobody but Cowboys fans would put Tyrone Crawford in the same universe with either of those guys, nobody. Because he's not.

They can keep Leary but they like Collins better and they are not going to pay the backup starter money. They chose to start Collins when healthy for two years in a row.

I know you have your dreams of Collins moving to RT and keeping Leary but the club has chosen not to do that. It is what it is and it has nothing to do with 98's deal.

Every deal is connected to another. They all come out of the same cap. The more you pay one player, the less you have to pay another. Overpaying Crawford means less for everyone else.

You and I are wasting our time here. You're 'dug in like an Alabama tick', and so am I.

Neither one of us is going to change the other's mind. Let's agree to disagree on this matter.

 

[Stash]

That's just silly talk. Not investing in Leary is a matter of having a capable cheaper alternative and not investing soo much into a single position group. You may not like Crawford the player but i'd rather invest an additional 7mm a year into defensive line than offensive line.

I would hate for you to be our GM.

Good news then, I'm not.

 

[Nightman]

That's the worst agent in the world if he said that.

Now you guys are making up cartoon characters.

Just trying to speak your language since logic doesn't work

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Just trying to speak your language since logic doesn't work

Says something incredibly dumb. Pretends he meant to.

 

[Nightman]

Says something incredibly dumb. Pretends he meant to.

Says the cartoon character Lion

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Being prepared means knowing where you'd go for cap space if you need it. Not preemptively creating cap space which can either be harmless or extremely painful.... Largely based on things outside of your control. It's a stupid strategy and it's why we don't do it.

Being prepared means you are ready to offer the amount of money before going into the negotiations not, "hold on Mr. Sheard we need to have you wait while we get our **** together." It also sends a signal to your prospect that you are serious going in.

We have cleared cap space in the lead up to FA several times. It does not matter if it does not work out. You just let it ride and carry it over to next year no harm done.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Being prepared means you are ready to offer the amount of money before going into the negotiations not, "hold on Mr. Sheard we need to have you wait while we get our **** together." It also sends a signal to your prospect that you are serious going in.

We have cleared cap space in the lead up to FA several times. It does not matter if it does not work out. You just let it ride and carry it over to next year no harm done.

Do you think when a player signs a contract you hand over a bag of gold? And if that gold isn't on the table while you're negotiating a deal doesn't get done?

Meanwhile we've created cap space to sign free agents right before we've signed them before. I don't think their agents were pissed off. And it didn't stop the deal. From happening. You're making up scenarios that don't mimic real life.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So qualifiers for Irving's play, excuses for Crawford's, gotcha. The fact is that the team got better when Crawford was out of the lineup. Some of their best performances were when the guy didn't play. Sacks went up across the board when he was missing time.

Sure. Other than the fact that one guy is making $7 million while the other two cost peanuts, sure, same thing.

I never said he didn't have value. He doesn't have anywhere near $7 million value. And if the Cowboys could get out of paying it, they would. You yourself have admitted he's overpaid, and you're defending him. You really think the Cowboys don't agree that he's overpaid?

Cowboys fanspeak. Nobody but Cowboys fans would put Tyrone Crawford in the same universe with either of those guys, nobody. Because he's not.

Every deal is connected to another. They all come out of the same cap. The more you pay one player, the less you have to pay another. Overpaying Crawford means less for everyone else.

You and I are wasting our time here. You're 'dug in like an Alabama tick', and so am I.

Neither one of us is going to change the other's mind. Let's agree to disagree on this matter.

I am not even reading your line by lines.

I got as far as your fantasy that I am making excuses for Crawford. You know that he was the 3rd best SDE in terms of sacks and pressures behind Wake and Bosa. I have admitted that he should be making $2m less than what he is.

Irvings success at LDE was against one of the worst RT in the league. It is what it is. EVerything else he was doing was at 3T.

I am just not pretending like he is Nick Hayden . That would be you.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Do you think when a player signs a contract you hand over a bag of gold? And if that gold isn't on the table while you're negotiating a deal doesn't get done?

Meanwhile we've created cap space to sign free agents right before we've signed them before. I don't think their agents were pissed off. And it didn't stop the deal. From happening. You're making up scenarios that don't mimic real life.

I know that before you can hand over the check the deal has to be approved by the league. A delay can be costly.

I also know that we have cleared cap space leading up to FA every year in the Jones era. I guess they are stupid by your measure.

You don't get to speak for agents either.

 

[Hoofbite]

Would have been better off for Dallas to never start restructuring Tyron's contract in 2015. He signed an extremely team friendly deal to start with, and relative to the contract as it was written the money freed up each year isn't even all that significant after the first restructure.

2015:

Written: $13.1M
Actual: $5M
Net: $8.1M​

2016:

Written: $12M
Actual: $6.8M
Net: $5.2M​

2017:

Written: $12M
Actual: $8.8M
Net: $3.2M​

Total: $16.4M​

$16.4M over the course of 3 years isn't much. Still $7M short of covering the dead money applied to the cap in years 2014 and 2015 for Ware, Ratliff, and Austin. Guess what these guys all had in common in regards to their contracts. If you guessed that they had restructured at some point, you'd be right. Multiple times for Ware and Austin. This, of course, in addition to the fact that Jerry screwed the pooch on Austin from the outset and cost the team $10M in cap space from the penalty.

Anyone care to take a guess what an elite, 28-year-old, LT will cost in free agency in 2019? If Dallas had never touched Tyron's contract they would essentially be signing this player to a 5-year, $57.6M contract with $0 guaranteed.

Probably restructure again next year and turn that contract into what is effectively a 5-year, $75.4M contract with $17.8M guaranteed. Probably won't be considered unreasonable, but it's nowhere near the steal the team would have had if they had just left his contract alone. Take the hits when they're young, or take them when they're either old or off your team. I don't like the idea of paying for age in free agency so not really a fan of basically doing the same thing only with 5+ years of preparing to pay for age.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Would have been better off for Dallas to never start restructuring Tyron's contract in 2015. He signed an extremely team friendly deal to start with, and relative to the contract as it was written the money freed up each year isn't even all that significant after the first restructure.

2015:

Written: $13.1M
Actual: $5M
Net: $8.1M​

2016:

Written: $12M
Actual: $6.8M
Net: $5.2M​

2017:

Written: $12M
Actual: $8.8M
Net: $3.2M​

Total: $16.4M​

$16.4M over the course of 3 years isn't much. Still $7M short of covering the dead money applied to the cap in years 2014 and 2015 for Ware, Ratliff, and Austin. Guess what these guys all had in common in regards to their contracts. If you guessed that they had restructured at some point, you'd be right. Multiple times for Ware and Austin. This, of course, in addition to the fact that Jerry screwed the pooch on Austin from the outset and cost the team $10M in cap space from the penalty.

Anyone care to take a guess what an elite, 28-year-old, LT will cost in free agency in 2019? If Dallas had never touched Tyron's contract they would essentially be signing this player to a 5-year, $57.6M contract with $0 guaranteed.

Probably restructure again next year and turn that contract into what is effectively a 5-year, $75.4M contract with $17.8M guaranteed. Probably won't be considered unreasonable, but it's nowhere near the steal the team would have had if they had just left his contract alone. Take the hits when they're young, or take them when they're either old or off your team. I don't like the idea of paying for age in free agency so not really a fan of basically doing the same thing only with 5+ years of preparing to pay for age.

Tyron's deal has helped this team stay under the cap and has opened up considerable space every year that was critical. Where is this team if it was not able to create 16M in cap space over a 3 year period (haven't analyzed your numbers and assuming accuracy).

Tyron's deal is the envy of the league. And it's an absolute no brainer to have been restructuring him every year up to this point.

 

[Stash]

I am not even reading your line by lines.

I got as far as your fantasy that I am making excuses for Crawford. You know that he was the 3rd best SDE in terms of sacks and pressures behind Wake and Bosa. I have admitted that he should be making $2m less than what he is.

Irvings success at LDE was against one of the worst RT in the league. It is what it is. EVerything else he was doing was at 3T.

I am just not pretending like he is Nick Hayden . That would be you.

I appreciate your intelligence, your knowledge, and your enthusiasm. We just agree to disagree on this one, my friend.

Peace.

 

[Hoofbite]

Tyron's deal has helped this team stay under the cap and has opened up considerable space every year that was critical. Where is this team if it was not able to create 16M in cap space over a 3 year period (haven't analyzed your numbers and assuming accuracy).

Tyron's deal is the envy of the league. And it's an absolute no brainer to have been restructuring him every year up to this point.

His deal is envious because it exceeds average length, has a smaller percentage of guarantees than is typical, and the total is less than he could have gotten. Of course it's envious. I'm sure every team would want a guy like that.

Where is the team if they didn't restructure Tyron's contract? Probably not far from where they are now given it's only 3.5% of the total cap over the span.

 

[Nightman]

His deal is envious because it exceeds average length, has a smaller percentage of guarantees than is typical, and the total is less than he could have gotten. Of course it's envious. I'm sure every team would want a guy like that.

Where is the team if they didn't restructure Tyron's contract? Probably not far from where they are now given it's only 3.5% of the total cap over the span.

That is why it is a mistake to think money saved by Player A assigns to Player A in the future

It all goes into a pool of funds and gets reset every year.....that is why you create space wherever it is guaranteed money saved by Romo and Dez will pay for TFred and Thornton and then money saved by TCrawford will pay for Romo leaving...then Witten and Free retire or get cut

If you are contstantly creating 50m in space it is irrelevent if you have 10-20m in dead money

The bill never comes due unless you sign like 4 otr 5 terrible players and then it only takes a year to get out of trouble...look at NO, CAR and DEN

 

[Hoofbite]

That is why it is a mistake to think money saved by Player A assigns to Player A in the future

It all goes into a pool of funds and gets reset every year.....that is why you create space wherever it is guaranteed money saved by Romo and Dez will pay for TFred and Thornton and then money saved by TCrawford will pay for Romo leaving...then Witten and Free retire or get cut

It's not a mistake because when it comes time to determine whether or not Player A is worth his cap number in the future, I really don't care how well players B-Z are doing. I'm not trying to break even. If a guy isn't worth his cap number, I'm not going to offset the perceived loss of production from Player A by pooling the excess production from other players. I'm going to cut that guy and pay someone else who can produce at the same level exactly what that level of production is worth.

If you are contstantly creating 50m in space it is irrelevent if you have 10-20m in dead money

This whole thing is irrelevant because nobody is doing it.

The bill never comes due unless you sign like 4 otr 5 terrible players and then it only takes a year to get out of trouble...look at NO, CAR and DEN

Well the bill really never comes due if you just ignore the bill all together. I mean, if watching your franchise pass rusher win a championship on another team and having your franchise QB leave you with $14M in excess dead money while your team sits on the sidelines for most of free agency for multiple years in a row isn't "due", then nothing is.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

His deal is envious because it exceeds average length, has a smaller percentage of guarantees than is typical, and the total is less than he could have gotten. Of course it's envious. I'm sure every team would want a guy like that.

Where is the team if they didn't restructure Tyron's contract? Probably not far from where they are now given it's only 3.5% of the total cap over the span.

Except they would have had to restructure other deals to get under the cap. That had shorter length and less total value. So now they are restructuring multiple people for less total gain and less certainty to want to keep him.

No....I suspect the team would not have had so easy a go at it.

 

[Alexander]

Being prepared means you are ready to offer the amount of money before going into the negotiations not, "hold on Mr. Sheard we need to have you wait while we get our **** together." It also sends a signal to your prospect that you are serious going in.

This is entirely true. The neon "OPEN" sign needs to be lit up for the top tier to even bother.

Right now the Cowboys have about $4.5M open. That is not going to even cover the draft class and incidentals, which requires probably another $3-4M.

I still do not understand how people still keep throwing out names like Dontari Poe and Pierre-Paul as options. They will negotiate with the teams flush with cap dollars first.

The other part is that if they are prepared to lose Leary and Williams, they are going to want the compensatory value from them so that will limit activity regardless.