Cowboys Shopping ellis possibly?

[Alexander]

Dallas to New England: Ummm, you guys want Greg Ellis? We hear you need a pass-rushing OLB. And wouldn't you know it, we could use a deep threat WR. Hey, why don't we swap players - we'll give you Ellis for Randy Moss, after all we once selected Ellis over Moss in the draft, so that should give you an idea of the good value this trade would bring you.

New England to Dallas: :laugh2: :laugh1: :laugh2: :laugh1:

I find it very hard to believe that they would want Greg Ellis at his current cap charge. One of the reasons they were interested in Taylor was because he was on the Commanders' dime and would be relatively cheap, like Miami discovered. They could easily just wait this one out.

 

[AbeBeta]

You'd still have to sit through them calling Ellis your backup in a negotiation, even if both sides knew the score.

Just as now you'd have to sit through them pointing out that he had tons of PT last year taken by Spencer and would end up coming out of the game after the first snap. Where he lines up in OTAs is more about Gregg not female-dogging than about making him look like he's not a backup.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Ellis to the Bengals for Tank Johnson, straight up.

 

[Idgit]

Just as now you'd have to sit through them pointing out that he had tons of PT last year taken by Spencer and would end up coming out of the game after the first snap. Where he lines up in OTAs is more about Gregg not female-dogging than about making him look like he's not a backup.

Sure, you have to sit through that anyway, though.

Either way, it's a minor point. I agree with you that both sides know the score with Gregg Ellis, and the Cowboys aren't going to give ground just because he was surpassed in a mini-camp, but it's still easier to sell a trade to a fanbase if local press isn't saying you gave away too much for a Cowboy backup. it's a minor point of positioning, either way, but it probably explains the mild surprise that Ellis started in the OTAs when it had widely speculated that he would not.

 

[Stash]

9:26 AM Fri, May 22, 2009
Tim MacMahon

Ending Greg Ellis' decade-plus tenure with the Cowboys makes financial sense. The team would create more than $5 million in cap space if they can trade him, $4.15 million if they cut him. That cash can be put to good use (direct deposit into DeMarcus Ware's account as part of a massive signing bonus).

I disagree. The team already has the money to get Ware's deal done. And Ellis will be totally off the books next season, so Ware could have a bigger salary in 2010.

Does getting rid of Ellis make football sense? Seems like it's too early to tell.

The Cowboys are confident that 2007 first-round pick Anthony Spencer is ready to step into a starting role. He's an upgrade over Ellis at this point against the run and has the potential to be a good pass rusher. But Spencer missed four games last season, when he was a part-time player, due to knee and hamstring injuries. What happens if he gets hurt?

Bingo! Ellis is still this team's second-best proven pass rusher at OLB. The rest is wishful thinking. I'd prefer a year of 'insurance' over a 2010 draft pick or some unnecessary cap space.

The Cowboys drafted a pair of DE-to-OLB conversion projects in the fourth round. Ideally, they would combine to play about 20 snaps per game on passing downs. If Victor Butler and Brandon Williams are pushed into bigger roles as rookies, they could be exploited in the running game, which LB coach Reggie Herring acknowledged as a facet of the game in which both fourth-rounders need to improve significantly. Justin Rogers is also on the roster, but he's a solid special teams player who hasn't played a significant NFL down on defense.

That's why it's a little surprising that the Cowboys appear ready to move on from Ellis right now. It seems like the Cowboys would have benefited from monitoring the development of their draft picks during training camp and the preseason before making this decision.

Maybe they're doing Ellis a favor, allowing him an opportunity to spend the bulk of an off-season learning his new team's scheme. Or perhaps they figure its best for all involved to cancel this edition of the annual Greg Ellis Summer Soap Opera before it gets rolling.

I haven't heard anything from Ellis or his agent other than him looking forward to being a Cowboy in 2009.

If this isn't a player-for-player deal, I think it's a mistake to trade or release him at this point.

 

[KingintheNorth]

I find it very hard to believe that they would want Greg Ellis at his current cap charge. One of the reasons they were interested in Taylor was because he was on the Commanders' dime and would be relatively cheap, like Miami discovered. They could easily just wait this one out.

You realize that once the trade is made the team and player usually agree upon a new deal? The team does it because it lowers the cap number and the player does it because it involves a signing bonus. A signing bonus means immediate and guaranteed money for the player. A base salary is not guaranteed.

 

[Idgit]

I haven't heard anything from Ellis or his agent other than him looking forward to being a Cowboy in 2009.

If this isn't a player-for-player deal, I think it's a mistake to trade or release him at this point.

This is how I feel, too. But I'm conflicted. Normally, I'm all for letting a young player who's had time to acclimate move into a starting role, and having a rookie backup in place in case of a mid-season injury.

But that second pass-rush role is really important in Wade's defense. Ellis is not one to miss games with knicks and bruises, and Spencer, who I think could explode this year, has to demonstrate that he can stay on the field. I'm already gripping about our depth at OC. Trade Ellis and OLB becomes another spot where losing the starter could seriously derail the season.

 

[AbeBeta]

You realize that once the trade is made the team and player usually agree upon a new deal? The team does it because it lowers the cap number and the player does it because it involves a signing bonus. A signing bonus means immediate and guaranteed money for the player. A base salary is not guaranteed.

Sure, but that deal is going to have to be relatively large b/c Ellis gets 1.5 mill if he's cut. He's not going to take a deal for even 2.5 million b/c he knows he can a) get cut, pick up 1.5 mill then b) likely find a team to give him about 1.5 mill or more for his 2009 salary. So at minimum, he'd want 3 mill a year from the team trading for him.

 

[speedkilz88]

Sure, but that deal is going to have to be relatively large b/c Ellis gets 1.5 mill if he's cut. He's not going to take a deal for even 2.5 million b/c he knows he can a) get cut, pick up 1.5 mill then b) likely find a team to give him about 1.5 mill or more for his 2009 salary. So at minimum, he'd want 3 mill a year from the team trading for him.

I believe Adam said that info was incorrect, that he only gets 1.5 mill if he gets hurt.

 

[Alexander]

You realize that once the trade is made the team and player usually agree upon a new deal?

Yes, which is why it makes even more sense for the Patriots (or anyone else interested) to simply wait this out then having to worry about the hassle of renegogiating with an overaged player like Ellis after they trade for him.

 

[robjgrif]

Let's throw in Carpenter and make it a two for one deal!!!!!

 

[AbeBeta]

I believe Adam said that info was incorrect, that he only gets 1.5 mill if he gets hurt.

That doesn't sound right. Adam only makes posts about Roy Williams.

Can you find that post?

 

[superpunk]

Possible gold-lining - this is evidence that the coaching staff is really confident in the young fella's we drafted after the scouting and early activities.

 

[AbeBeta]

Possible gold-lining - this is evidence that the coaching staff is really confident in the young fella's we drafted after the scouting and early activities.

Premature evaluator.

 

[L-O-Jete]

That doesn't sound right. Adam only makes posts about Roy Williams.

Can you find that post?

Actually he's stated it twice.

 

[AbeBeta]

Actually he's stated it twice.

Not saying he didn't -- asking someone to provide the link...

 

[ethiostar]

Not saying he didn't -- asking someone to provide the link...

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153816&page=3

Post #43........ This is the only thing i can find. This is what Adam said..........

According to the information I have, this is incorrect. Ellis' $1.5 million is guaranteed only in case of an injury.

 

[KingintheNorth]

Yes, which is why it makes even more sense for the Patriots (or anyone else interested) to simply wait this out then having to worry about the hassle of renegogiating with an overaged player like Ellis after they trade for him.

but by trading for him they get to be the only team negotiating with him. If they wait they risk another team outbidding them or the player simply choosing to play for another team.

 

[L-O-Jete]

Not saying he didn't -- asking someone to provide the link...

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2783289&postcount=43

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2783388&postcount=10

Now if anyone can find a post where he says we get a 3rd and 4th next year for Canty & Burnett...

 

[speedkilz88]

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2783289&postcount=43

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2783388&postcount=10

Now if anyone can find a post where he says we get a 3rd and 4th next year for Canty & Burnett...

No one said anything about Burnett. It was the compensation for Canty that was being discussed.


//My bad, the one poster did include Burnett. If they get a pick for him, you would probably be right about it being only a 6 or 7. The Canty pick is the one that could be a pretty decent one.