Signed by Cowboys Cowboys sign Nolan Carroll

FuzzyLumpkins

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It's essentially a 3 million dollar 1 year deal. Not exactly pennies for a guy that some people are saying is exclusively a special teams gunner. Special teams only players usually get less than a million a year.

Dwayne Harris made a lot more than that. There have been others too. The cap is $167m not $50m.

It's less than 2% of the cap. If he is CB3 he will be being paid less than most every nickel corner in the league not on a rookie contract. Certainly less than the nickel guys signing this week.

Don't be the guy that thinks NFL players outside of the stars should make the minimum. The Cowboys are creating a middle class on their roster. Steve-o has had a lot of success with these 2 and 3 modest veteran deals.

He has 7 years of starting experience and it has not all been bad for all the hand wringing around here. He can play corner and is better in zone than man. The Eagles did bring in Jim Schwartz and changed the scheme last year with the coaching overhaul.

Plus he was a gunner on one of the best ST units in the league. Football outsiders has the Eagles as the best ST unit.

That is thing. Yes he is a gunner. Yes he has a lot of starting experience. Yes he can run with quickness. Yes he can tackle. If he ends up being CB4 you are being unfair.
 

CyberB0b

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Dwayne Harris made a lot more than that. There have been others too. The cap is $167m not $50m.

It's less than 2% of the cap. If he is CB3 he will be being paid less than most every nickel corner in the league not on a rookie contract. Certainly less than the nickel guys signing this week.

Don't be the guy that thinks NFL players outside of the stars should make the minimum. The Cowboys are creating a middle class on their roster. Steve-o has had a lot of success with these 2 and 3 modest veteran deals.

He has 7 years of starting experience and it has not all been bad for all the hand wringing around here. He can play corner and is better in zone than man. The Eagles did bring in Jim Schwartz and changed the scheme last year with the coaching overhaul.

Plus he was a gunner on one of the best ST units in the league. Football outsiders has the Eagles as the best ST unit.

That is thing. Yes he is a gunner. Yes he has a lot of starting experience. Yes he can run with quickness. Yes he can tackle. If he ends up being CB4 you are being unfair.

Dwayne Harris was one of the best punt returners in the league, not really an apt comparison. I think it's a fair amount of money if he will relegated to just special teams.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Dwayne Harris was one of the best punt returners in the league, not really an apt comparison. I think it's a fair amount of money if he will relegated to just special teams.

You return on special teams.

The Pats pay Matthew Slater $2m and he cannot play any position.

Then of course there was the rest of my post.
 

waldoputty

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Dwayne Harris made a lot more than that. There have been others too. The cap is $167m not $50m.

It's less than 2% of the cap. If he is CB3 he will be being paid less than most every nickel corner in the league not on a rookie contract. Certainly less than the nickel guys signing this week.

Don't be the guy that thinks NFL players outside of the stars should make the minimum. The Cowboys are creating a middle class on their roster. Steve-o has had a lot of success with these 2 and 3 modest veteran deals.

He has 7 years of starting experience and it has not all been bad for all the hand wringing around here. He can play corner and is better in zone than man. The Eagles did bring in Jim Schwartz and changed the scheme last year with the coaching overhaul.

Plus he was a gunner on one of the best ST units in the league. Football outsiders has the Eagles as the best ST unit.

That is thing. Yes he is a gunner. Yes he has a lot of starting experience. Yes he can run with quickness. Yes he can tackle. If he ends up being CB4 you are being unfair.


question is if he is being cb4 or cb2 or cb3
also is it not much safer to sign a cb2 and draft a cb4
instead of signing a cb4 and trying to draft a cb2?

how was the philly scheme changed?
thought he was playing nickel and dime but then did badly as a starter?
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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question is if he is being cb4 or cb2 or cb3
also is it not much safer to sign a cb2 and draft a cb4
instead of signing a cb4 and trying to draft a cb2?

how was the philly scheme changed?
thought he was playing nickel and dime but then did badly as a starter?

You have to think Brown and Scandrick are ahead of him already.

He started 11 games in 2015 and played well. He started 22 games in 2013-14 at Miami and played well. He was the nickel in 2014 and played well.

The Eagles used to roll coverages and blitz a lot. That led to a lot more zone. Schwarz likes press man coveragea and rushing 3 or 4:

On obvious passing downs, you may see three-man fronts with nickel coverage behind and a tackle at linebacker depth (this was a favorite of his during the Ndamukong Suh era in Detroit). Schwartz needs his linebackers to be heady and diverse, and he prefers aggressive man coverage, though he’s also highly effective at calling zone coverages.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/06/17/philadelphia-eagles-defense-jim-schwartz-fletcher-cox

That is a really good article discussing Schwarz's scheme and the scheme change if you are interested.

You want to pay Munnerlyn $6m AAV? I don't. Amukamara was looking for $8m AAV. Pass. Neither is twice the player of Carroll. He is certainly the most efficient use of dollars.

A second round corner makes about $1m. There are about 15 CB in the top 100. 11 of them run a 4.7 or better. There are about a dozen more size speed prospects down the draft list. The speed of the class is impressive.
 

MichaelWinicki

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You have to think Brown and Scandrick are ahead of him already.

He started 11 games in 2015 and played well. He started 22 games in 2013-14 at Miami and played well. He was the nickel in 2014 and played well.

The Eagles used to roll coverages and blitz a lot. That led to a lot more zone. Schwarz likes press man coveragea and rushing 3 or 4:



http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/06/17/philadelphia-eagles-defense-jim-schwartz-fletcher-cox

That is a really good article discussing Schwarz's scheme and the scheme change if you are interested.

You want to pay Munnerlyn $6m AAV? I don't. Amukamara was looking for $8m AAV. Pass. Neither is twice the player of Carroll. He is certainly the most efficient use of dollars.

A second round corner makes about $1m. There are about 15 CB in the top 100. 11 of them run a 4.7 or better. There are about a dozen more size speed prospects down the draft list. The speed of the class is impressive.

Yep.

Carroll played well in 2014 & 2015.

I assume he'll be used in more zone with Dallas than he was with the Eagles and will have a better season than he did in 2016.
 

waldoputty

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You have to think Brown and Scandrick are ahead of him already.

He started 11 games in 2015 and played well. He started 22 games in 2013-14 at Miami and played well. He was the nickel in 2014 and played well.

The Eagles used to roll coverages and blitz a lot. That led to a lot more zone. Schwarz likes press man coveragea and rushing 3 or 4:

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/06/17/philadelphia-eagles-defense-jim-schwartz-fletcher-cox

That is a really good article discussing Schwarz's scheme and the scheme change if you are interested.

You want to pay Munnerlyn $6m AAV? I don't. Amukamara was looking for $8m AAV. Pass. Neither is twice the player of Carroll. He is certainly the most efficient use of dollars.

A second round corner makes about $1m. There are about 15 CB in the top 100. 11 of them run a 4.7 or better. There are about a dozen more size speed prospects down the draft list. The speed of the class is impressive.

oscan had issues last year and may never be the same after the surgery.
i am not so sure oscan is #2.

what dictates you have to be twice the player to be paid twice as much.
what does twice the player mean - no one runs twice as fast or jumps twice as much.
efficient use of cap dollars - you may as well have all carrolls on the team then you will have really 'efficient' use of cap dollars.

what does efficient mean? if it gets you to the playoffs but no super bowl win, you are still a loser.
in fact you are even a bigger loser than a team that does not make it to the playoffs because your draft position is worse.

a porsche turbo costs 5x more than a normal car and its 0 to 60 is 2 times faster...
these are all artificial constraints.

after a 13-3 year with ~5 clear holes to fixed that can be addressed between fa and the draft, you would expect the fo to go all in.
going all in does not even jeopardize the future, as i have shown numerous times last week in several permutations of the cap table taken out 5 years.
it appears to me that the fo has quietly laid down because they dont think they can beat brady.

to make things worse, they knowingly allowed the better RTs be signed even though they knew Free was likely retiring.
they are banking on 15 years of a young franchise qb.
they have just put Dak at risk even though the 1st year cap impact of many better RTs are less than the base salary of Free.
starting 2018, the cap space really opens up so the cap is not even an issue.
instead, they insist on the approach of signing backups and relying on the draft to find future starters.
they could well have signed starters/semi-stars (though less in number) and relying on the draft to find future stars (though less in number) who would serve as backups in the 1st half of 2017.

you would still have serviced the 5 needs but not essentially laid down for 2017 and probably 2018.
 
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gmoney112

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oscan had issues last year and may never be the same after the surgery.
i am not so sure oscan is #2.

what dictates you have to be twice the player to be paid twice as much.
what does twice the player mean - no one runs twice as fast or jumps twice as much.
efficient use of cap dollars - you may as well have all carrolls on the team then you will have really 'efficient' use of cap dollars.

what does efficient mean? if it gets you to the playoffs but no super bowl win, you are still a loser.
in fact you are even a bigger loser than a team that does not make it to the playoffs because your draft position is worse.

a porsche turbo costs 5x more than a normal car and its 0 to 60 is 2 times faster...
these are all artificial constraints.

after a 13-3 year with ~5 clear holes to fixed that can be addressed between fa and the draft, you would expect the fo to go all in.
going all in does not even jeopardize the future, as i have shown numerous times last week in several permutations of the cap table taken out 5 years.
it appears to me that the fo has quietly laid down because they dont think they can beat brady.

to make things worse, they knowingly allowed the better RTs be signed even though they knew Free was likely retiring.
they are banking on 15 years of a young franchise qb.
they have just put Dak at risk even though the 1st year cap impact of many better RTs are less than the base salary of Free.
starting 2018, the cap space really opens up so the cap is not even an issue.
instead, they insist on the approach of signing backups and relying on the draft to find future starters.
they could well have signed starters/semi-stars (though less in number) and relying on the draft to find future stars (though less in number) who would serve as backups in the 1st half of 2017.

you would still have serviced the 5 needs but not essentially laid down for 2017 and probably 2018.

Gotta love the kneejerk members.
 

waldoputty

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No. Your reaction. Because they aren't following your plan for this offseason that includes numerous spreadsheets and threads about it.

It's going to be okay man. Breathe.

i never expected the team to follow what i said.
those were hypotheticals to show that the team had the option to do almost whatever it wants.

the team is going to be more than ok.
in fact, it is probably going to be too ok because we are going to win too many games for a good draft pick, say 12-4.
but when it counts, the O will be probably unable to carry the D.

cowboys are going to be a very good team.
of course unless dak gets hurt because the RT is not adequate.
 

gmoney112

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i never expected the team to follow what i said.
those were hypotheticals to show that the team had the option to do almost whatever it wants.

the team is going to be more than ok.
in fact, it is probably going to be too ok because we are going to win too many games for a good draft pick, say 12-4.
but when it counts, the O will be probably unable to carry the D.

cowboys are going to be a very good team.
of course unless dak gets hurt because the RT is not adequate.

Haha, I know you love the team. I'm just messing with you. I just don't agree we're in "win now" mode.

There's a ton of bad RT's in this league.

Honestly, if Cleary goes through camp, I think he'd be fine. He started at LT against the Eagles and did his job, until Buttfumble ruined everyone's day.

If Chaz can manage to stay healthy even better, but I'm not counting on that.
 

waldoputty

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Haha, I know you love the team. I'm just messing with you. I just don't agree we're in "win now" mode.

There's a ton of bad RT's in this league.

Honestly, if Cleary goes through camp, I think he'd be fine. He started at LT against the Eagles and did his job, until Buttfumble ruined everyone's day.

If Chaz can manage to stay healthy even better, but I'm not counting on that.

If we are not in a win now mode after 13-3, when are we?
Or are you subscribing to theory that no one can beat Brady on his final tour, so lay low and save money?

I did not watch the Cleary game carefully, and do not have the knowledge to tell anyway.
Did Cleary do ok because he did ok or did they rotate protection to help him?
I have no idea.
 
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