Cowboys: STAY AWAY from Courtney Upshaw

[TheSport78]

Upshaw is a Spencer clone. Solid against the run but not an explosive or consistent pass rusher.

If we must trade down, I would love Melvin Ingram in the 1st or Vinny Curry in the 2nd. Those are the only two legit options I would take in the early rounds.

And being this is a weak pass rushing OLB class, it's safe to say there's a pretty good chance that Curry or Ingram will end up becoming a Cowboy.

 

[robert70x7]

You realize Anthony Spencer had 10.5 sacks coming out of college, right? He has similar measureables to Ingram as well as production. I would give the slight edge to Ingram because he played in the SEC, but there is nothing that has showed me he could be significantly better than Spencer, which doesn't warrant taking a first round pick on him.

 

[jnday]

I like Curry in the second even if Spencer is resigned . You can never have too many pass rushers . Upshaw will be a good player , but he is not a quality pass rusher . With that being said , reports are , that Dallas loves Upshaw .

 

[TheSport78]

You realize Anthony Spencer had 10.5 sacks coming out of college, right? He has similar measureables to Ingram as well as production. I would give the slight edge to Ingram because he played in the SEC, but there is nothing that has showed me he could be significantly better than Spencer, which doesn't warrant taking a first round pick on him.

I would take the chance on Ingram or Curry being better than Spencer, and it fills a huge need. Victor Butler can't be depended on as a starter, and the free agent OLB's aren't that enticing. Mario Williams would cost too much, and there isn't anybody else out there in FA.

 

[jobberone]

You realize Anthony Spencer had 10.5 sacks coming out of college, right? He has similar measureables to Ingram as well as production. I would give the slight edge to Ingram because he played in the SEC, but there is nothing that has showed me he could be significantly better than Spencer, which doesn't warrant taking a first round pick on him.

I know Ingram is faster. I've seen some press saying he is sub 8s but he may even be high 6s and certainly low 7s. I think he is quicker and I'd bet a fair more athletic from watching them both and getting some inside info on Ingram. But that still doesn't make him a better football player. I really have no idea where Ingram will go in this draft. I've seen near top 15 to high second so.........

 

[DA FAN]

If Jerruh thinks signing him will make a big splash, that's all it takes for him to try to sign him.


Jerruh doesn't know if the guy can play or not because Jerruh can't evaluate talent and we all know he won't listen to anyone (although he says otherwise).

 

[dantheman41]

Your forgetting about Nick Perry from USC. He is probably the best pass rusher in the draft, and is quickly moving up boards. I am fine with either him or Melvin Ingram

 

[TheSport78]

Your forgetting about Nick Perry from USC. He is probably the best pass rusher in the draft, and is quickly moving up boards. I am fine with either him or Melvin Ingram

How much does he weigh though? I've read he could be a solid fit as an OLB in a 4-3 defense.

EDIT: He's listed at 6"3' 250 lbs.

Good call...gotta keep our eye out on him also

 

[Risen Star]

I think what will happen is we will resign Spencer because we're too fearful of replacing him adequately and that new contract will be yet another bad one on the books for this franchise.

We love to extend mediocrity in Dallas.

 

[TheSport78]

I think what will happen is we will resign Spencer because we're too fearful of replacing him adequately and that new contract will be yet another bad one on the books for this franchise.

We love to extend mediocrity in Dallas.

I really hope your wrong, Spencer is the epidome of mediocre!

 

[dantheman41]

I will be so annoyed if Spencer is resigned at ridiculous price. I'd be completely fine with seeing Victor Butler and Vinny Curry compete in camp for the starting OLB on opposite side of Ware

 

[Risen Star]

I will be so annoyed if Spencer is resigned at ridiculous price. I'd be completely fine with seeing Victor Butler and Vinny Curry compete in camp for the starting OLB on opposite side of Ware

Yeah, I'd be fine with a platoon too. You can't resign everybody and I don't know why you'd want to on a team that hasn't won anything in two decades anyway.

 

[burmafrd]

Certainly not with a high first rd pick. Yeah he might be cheaper then Spencer would be to resign, but that would be about the only advantage I could see

 

[KingintheNorth]

Sensabaugh signing was rewarding mediocrity. I believe they still liked (and still do like) Scandrick's potential when they re-signed him.

Spencer to a short-term, incentive-packed contract might make business sense and would be one less hole to fill. A long-term contract would be a mistake.

Back to the OP, I think Courtney Upshaw may be one of the most ready to contribute players in the draft. I wish he offered more as a pass rusher. Ingram seems like an ultra-athletic 4-3 Defensive Tackle to me. I'd like to see him in coverage drills. I know he's a player and is versatile but I'm not sure he's a stand-up 3-4 OLB, at least not yet.

 

[robert70x7]

I would take the chance on Ingram or Curry being better than Spencer, and it fills a huge need. Victor Butler can't be depended on as a starter, and the free agent OLB's aren't that enticing. Mario Williams would cost too much, and there isn't anybody else out there in FA.

We don't know that Butler can't be relied upon as a starter.

I'm confused that people say that Spencer should be rushing the passer more. Ware is our primary pass rusher on 60-70% of the plays and Spencer plays in coverage/run support the majority of the time. We don't need another pass rusher from our linebackers, we need someone who can come in and replace Spencer at a cheaper price if we don't re-sign him. You don't replace Spencer with the #14 pick, there are other needs.

I think Spencer was slightly underrated this year. His job isn't to go sack the quarterback on every play, that is Ware's. We can't rush both on every single defensive down, which is why Ware's numbers exceed Spencers.

With that said, only 11 linebackers in the league had at least 50 tackles and 6 sacks: Ware, Suggs, Hali, Miller (Von), Orakpo, Harrison (James), Kerrigan, Wimberly, Ninkovich, Matthews and Spencer.

I don't think Ingram coming into a new system would put up similar numbers.

 

[rkell87]

We don't know that Butler can't be relied upon as a starter.

I'm confused that people say that Spencer should be rushing the passer more. Ware is our primary pass rusher on 60-70% of the plays and Spencer plays in coverage/run support the majority of the time. We don't need another pass rusher from our linebackers, we need someone who can come in and replace Spencer at a cheaper price if we don't re-sign him. You don't replace Spencer with the #14 pick, there are other needs.

I think Spencer was slightly underrated this year. His job isn't to go sack the quarterback on every play, that is Ware's. We can't rush both on every single defensive down, which is why Ware's numbers exceed Spencers.

With that said, only 11 linebackers in the league had at least 50 tackles and 6 sacks: Ware, Suggs, Hali, Miller (Von), Orakpo, Harrison (James), Kerrigan, Wimberly, Ninkovich, Matthews and Spencer.

I don't think Ingram coming into a new system would put up similar numbers.

spencer rushed the passer 400 times and ware 480ish i wouldn't call that anywhere close to the majority

 

[robert70x7]

Provide link for stats? How many of those times that Spencer was blitzing was Ware rushing the passer as well? I just find it unrealistic to expect 10+ sacks when he's opposite a guy that gets 15-20 sacks on any given year.

 

[robert70x7]

It was 451-407 for Ware, my mistake. PFF has him as the 10th best 3-4 OLB for Pass Rush Productivity. I don't think a rookie could come in and be significantly better than that next season.

Spencer was also in pass coverage 153 times, and Ware 76 times.

 

[jblaze2004]

i like bruce irving as of right now. Bruce irving has speed that you cannot teach. He looks like von miller in his speed rush. Bruce irving has a lighting quick first step.

 

[Eskimo]

It was 451-407 for Ware, my mistake. PFF has him as the 10th best 3-4 OLB for Pass Rush Productivity. I don't think a rookie could come in and be significantly better than that next season.

Spencer was also in pass coverage 153 times, and Ware 76 times.

The problem is that Spencer is very rarely the originator of pressure. He makes most of his plays in pursuit once someone has caused the QB to already move. His numbers really overestimate his production as a pass rusher.

If we want to become a better defense this position has to be upgraded. We can't invest a large amount of money in a mediocre player. If Spencer would could be re-signed for Sensy money I would be okay with that until we find a better player. As of right now I'd be okay with going into the draft and looking for an upgrade in the first or second round. Possibilities include Curry, Ingram, Whitney, Hightower and Bruce Irvin.