Game Day ***Cowboys vs Commanders post game thread***

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
What? Wanting to improve your position in an upcoming season makes one a good fan.

You're still talking about hoping for losses, right? If so, I didn't say you weren't a good fan. I suggested you'd managed to hopelessly confuse yourself. Assuming you're one of the Cowboys fans who's rooting for the Cowboys to lose.
 

Beast_from_East

Well-Known Member
Messages
30,140
Reaction score
27,231
Jesus Christ, dude. How can this be broken down for you?

We. Are. One. Game. Behind. In. The. Division.

We have 4 games left, one against a divisional opponent. How is it pointless?

I know this was not directed at me, but I will answer for the gentleman.

I think his point is that while we are one game back right now, a road trip to Lambeau is coming up next week. In the entire 55 year history of the franchise, the Cowboys have won at Lambeau Field just one time.

Ergo, that game is probably a loss. If even one of our division rivals wins next week, we are then 2 games back with 3 games to play. That is a very, very, tall order to overcome especially considering that we don't control our destiny and we would need our division rivals to lose multiple games to other teams.

So it is because we are playing Green Bay next week and an automatic loss pretty much that a lot of fans are thinking that we still will not win the division, hence the feeling that the win really did not accomplish anything of significance.

I believe that is a reasonable way to view the situation, now if we beat Green Bay then things are totally different. I guess your view of this win is based on if you believe Matt Cassel will go into Lambeau and get the franchise's second win ever there or not.
 

Doomsay

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,542
Reaction score
6,160
You're still talking about hoping for losses, right? If so, I didn't say you weren't a good fan. I suggested you'd managed to hopelessly confuse yourself. Assuming you're one of the Cowboys fans who's rooting for the Cowboys to lose.

Do you enjoy talking to yourself?
 

mattjames2010

Well-Known Member
Messages
21,835
Reaction score
20,691
I know this was not directed at me, but I will answer for the gentleman.

I think his point is that while we are one game back right now, a road trip to Lambeau is coming up next week. In the entire 55 year history of the franchise, the Cowboys have won at Lambeau Field just one time.

Ergo, that game is probably a loss. If even one of our division rivals wins next week, we are then 2 games back with 3 games to play. That is a very, very, tall order to overcome especially considering that we don't control our destiny and we would need our division rivals to lose multiple games to other teams.

So it is because we are playing Green Bay next week and an automatic loss pretty much that a lot of fans are thinking that we still will not win the division, hence the feeling that the win really did not accomplish anything of significance.

I believe that is a reasonable way to view the situation, now if we beat Green Bay then things are totally different. I guess your view of this win is based on if you believe Matt Cassel will go into Lambeau and get the franchise's second win ever there or not.

See, looking back at Cowboys history like a team from decades ago is somehow relevant now is pointless. They've lost their last two home games, that's more relevant. It's more relevant that their offense has been sputtering since Denver outside of one game.

It is, even if you attempt to debate. ridiculous to say this game was "meaningless". However you want to slice it, that's loser mentality when you can still win the division.
 

LocimusPrime

Well-Known Member
Messages
34,091
Reaction score
92,903
Some people are optimists, some are pessimist, and some look at the odds or probability. Im a dreamer, beat greenbay, win the rest of the games. Host a playoff game.

Go cowboys
 

RoboQB

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,483
Reaction score
10,762
Anyone worried about losing a top draft pick stop worrying. The Packers will put a whipping on the Cowboy's like the one that got Wade Phillips fired and they'll be back on track.

I agree that Dallas will lose the game but it's not like GB is a team of world beaters... we might hang around for a half.
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Do you enjoy talking to yourself?

This would make more sense if you hadn't directed your previous post at me.

'A' for effort, though! It sounded like a good comeback, right?
 

ScipioCowboy

More than meets the eye.
Messages
25,266
Reaction score
17,597
Some people are optimists, some are pessimist, and some look at the odds or probability. Im a dreamer, beat greenbay, win the rest of the games. Host a playoff game.

Go cowboys

Isn't that absurd? The Cowboys would be right where they were last year...with Romo potentially back.
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Isn't that absurd? The Cowboys would be right where they were last year...with Romo potentially back.

It's insane that it's even a remote possibility.

This is the weirdest season I can ever remember short of the strike seasons.
 

LocimusPrime

Well-Known Member
Messages
34,091
Reaction score
92,903
Isn't that absurd? The Cowboys would be right where they were last year...with Romo potentially back.

It drives my girlfriend nuts but I refuse to give up on the Cowboys. I'm analytical and understand that probability doesn't favor us, but I can't stop cheering. It's just how I am. I want them to win so bad. Tomorrow I'm gonna wake up and flip chanels and stations just to see the commentators eat crow. I have a sickness, I'm a cowboys fan.
 

Beast_from_East

Well-Known Member
Messages
30,140
Reaction score
27,231
At some point, if you're really a Cowboys fan wishing for Cowboys losses, you'd think you'd evaluate the thought process that caused you to do a complete 180 and end up pointing in the opposite direction from where you started out.

I think that is a little assumptious on your part Idgit...........if a fan logically thinks we will not make the playoffs, then said fan might think the best thing for his favorite team is to pick as high as possible in the draft. Said fan can be a die hard since childhood and logically have the ability to think outside of just the one game this week to determine what is best for his team.

Case in point, the Spurs totally sucked one year when David Robinson got hurt and ended up in the draft lottery and picked Tim Duncan. Now if the Spurs won a couple more games that year, they maybe could have snuck into the playoffs but they were not good enough to beat any of the good teams without David Robinson. Ergo, in hindsight it was much better for the Spurs not make the playoffs as a wildcard and instead have the chance to draft Tim Duncan and 4 championships later proves this. So if a Spur fan was rooting for his team to lose the last couple of weeks of the season, did that make him a bad fan?

You may question the logic or decision making, but questioning somebody's fandom because they think what might be best for the team might be short term pain for long term gain is pretty bad and closed minded in my opinion. You may disagree with the logic fans use, but to question anybody's fandom is crossing the line to be quite honest.

I know your reply was not directed at me, but I thought it was important to say this.
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I think that is a little assumptious on your part Idgit...........if a fan logically thinks we will not make the playoffs, then said fan might think the best thing for his favorite team is to pick as high as possible in the draft. Said fan can be a die hard since childhood and logically have the ability to think outside of just the one game this week to determine what is best for his team.

Case in point, the Spurs totally sucked one year when David Robinson got hurt and ended up in the draft lottery and picked Tim Duncan. Now if the Spurs won a couple more games that year, they maybe could have snuck into the playoffs but they were not good enough to beat any of the good teams without David Robinson. Ergo, in hindsight it was much better for the Spurs not make the playoffs as a wildcard and instead have the chance to draft Tim Duncan and 4 championships later proves this. So if a Spur fan was rooting for his team to lose the last couple of weeks of the season, did that make him a bad fan?

You may question the logic or decision making, but questioning somebody's fandom because they think what might be best for the team might be short term pain for long term gain is pretty bad and closed minded in my opinion. You may disagree with the logic fans use, but to question anybody's fandom is crossing the line to be quite honest.

I know your reply was not directed at me, but I thought it was important to say this.

The thing is, the only way the team can pick higher in the draft is by losing football games. That puts that fan, by definition, in a position where they're rooting against their team. And, as bad as this year has been, it's rooting against a team that has a legitimate shot to advance in a lousy NFCE. And one that's actually got a chance of having Tony Romo back in time for the games that matter. We know that's unlikely, but that's not the point.

And for what? Are you sure we're going to draft better a few slots above where we otherwise might because the picks are higher? Take a look at the draft some time a few years down the road and see how many times the team with the highest pick has the best draft overall. Quick, who you got: Cam Newton or JJ Watt?

And even if you do get a hypothetically better fit for your team than you otherwise would, at what cost does it come? Are you losing all the games and firing the staff and replacing them? Is that, plus the draft position, better for the team overall? Who's the next coach? How does the next OCs scheme fit Romo? Are we still a ZBS OL, or do we have to consider moving some personnel around there? Do we keep the 4-3, or do we have to consider moving some personnel around there? Or are we keeping Jason Garrett, after all, and just hoping the team responds better to him next season after going 4-12 than it would have after winning the division and getting eliminated early in the playoff run? They'll listen to him more closely, why? These better players we develop, they'll play harder for him than the guys a few slots lower might, why?

Or maybe, because the NFL is for the fans and the fans are supposed to find it entertaining, we should look at the implications for maximizing the overall entertainment for the next few years. How many playoff Sundays are you willing to give up for, say, 3 extra draft slots? How many regular season Sundays? How much more enjoyable would this season have been for you if we'd picked at, say, 20 instead of 27th? I'll go out on a limb here and say probably not much more at all since we'd likely be in the same boat absent a gift at QB that probably wouldn't have happened anyway.

And, for the record, I *didn't* question anybody's fanhood. I questioned their decision making. Because I think anybody wishing for losses for the team they follow as closely as we follow the Cowboys has badly misled himself. Or herself.
 

mattjames2010

Well-Known Member
Messages
21,835
Reaction score
20,691
It drives my girlfriend nuts but I refuse to give up on the Cowboys. I'm analytical and understand that probability doesn't favor us, but I can't stop cheering. It's just how I am. I want them to win so bad. Tomorrow I'm gonna wake up and flip chanels and stations just to see the commentators eat crow. I have a sickness, I'm a cowboys fan.

That could quickly change.

Just keep winning. Just keep winning.

FMM6fFAl.jpg
 

Joe_Fan

Continuity Is Overrated
Messages
1,245
Reaction score
576
I think that is a little assumptious on your part Idgit...........if a fan logically thinks we will not make the playoffs, then said fan might think the best thing for his favorite team is to pick as high as possible in the draft. Said fan can be a die hard since childhood and logically have the ability to think outside of just the one game this week to determine what is best for his team.

Case in point, the Spurs totally sucked one year when David Robinson got hurt and ended up in the draft lottery and picked Tim Duncan. Now if the Spurs won a couple more games that year, they maybe could have snuck into the playoffs but they were not good enough to beat any of the good teams without David Robinson. Ergo, in hindsight it was much better for the Spurs not make the playoffs as a wildcard and instead have the chance to draft Tim Duncan and 4 championships later proves this. So if a Spur fan was rooting for his team to lose the last couple of weeks of the season, did that make him a bad fan?

You may question the logic or decision making, but questioning somebody's fandom because they think what might be best for the team might be short term pain for long term gain is pretty bad and closed minded in my opinion. You may disagree with the logic fans use, but to question anybody's fandom is crossing the line to be quite honest.

I know your reply was not directed at me, but I thought it was important to say this.

I couldn't have stated it any better myself Beast_from_East. You hit the nail on the head with this one.

As a fan, and after watching this disaster of a season play out I would hope for at least one good thing to come out of it and that's a high draft pick that could help us out next season and years beyond. I completely loathe buying into these moral victories that do nothing but hurt those chances and got enough of that taste back during the Campo era with the 5-11 victories that proved to be just enough to cause us to go from a team with a high choice to middle of the road picks.

I want to see this team improve. Not just next year but for years to come and quite honestly limping into the playoffs or missing them complete which is the far more likely scenario will accomplish that.

We went from going into this season with Super Bowl aspirations to being lucky to even win 500. So sorry, I don't find any joy in these wins that aren't going to be the one saving grace to what ended up being a highly disappointing one.

What will be even more of a kick in the gut is to miss the playoffs and then come April be sitting with a mediocre draft pick due to trying to rack up a few moral victories to end the season.
 

mattjames2010

Well-Known Member
Messages
21,835
Reaction score
20,691
I couldn't have stated it any better myself Beast_from_East. You hit the nail on the head with this one.

As a fan, and after watching this disaster of a season play out I would hope for at least one good thing to come out of it and that's a high draft pick that could help us out next season and years beyond. I completely loathe buying into these moral victories that do nothing but hurt those chances and got enough of that taste back during the Campo era with the 5-11 victories that proved to be just enough to cause us to go from a team with a high choice to middle of the road picks.

I want to see this team improve. Not just next year but for years to come and quite honestly limping into the playoffs or missing them complete which is the far more likely scenario will accomplish that.

We went from going into this season with Super Bowl aspirations to being lucky to even win 500. So sorry, I don't find any joy in these wins that aren't going to be the one saving grace to what ended up being a highly disappointing one.

What will be even more of a kick in the gut is to miss the playoffs and then come April be sitting with a mediocre draft pick due to trying to rack up a few moral victories to end the season.

[QUOTEI would hope for at least one good thing to come out of it][/QUOTE]

So us winning out or slipping into playoffs wouldn't be a good thing? You are complaining about the first step we made with making that reality. Dude, you're completely off on this.

What will be even more of a kick in the gut is to miss the playoffs and then come April be sitting with a mediocre draft pick

What is a "mediocre draft pick" in terms of position in the first round?

We got two offensive lineman, probowlers, with those "mediocre draft picks" and Morris Claiborne with the top 10 pick. Shall we go through the list of busts in the top 15 every single year? I'm guessing there is a player in college you're just dying to have, because I can't think of any other reason a fan of a team one game behind a division leader is this upset over a win.
 
Top