cowboys vs. my Commanders (last game of the season)

[WoodysGirl]

But yet you are arguing this point with me. I make a claim, and if you don't have anything to say either way, there's a good chance that you shouldn't say anything. That's like somebody saying I think Hiliary Clinton should be president and then I jump up and say, I have no opinion on the subject! I just wasted everyone's time, didn't I?

Actually, I'm not arguing the point. I think you made a comment without anything to back it up. And when challenged on it, tried to redirect the discussion by trying to attack something I never said. But whatever. Keep on with that..

And just fyi, please don't make political comments on this board. They're not allowed.

That's your opinion, but the statement about Smoot never being efficient as a starter is completely false. If he wasn't, why did Minny pay $34 mil for him (including $11mil in bonuses)? He was an effective starter for Washington.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18156-2005Mar8.html

That just proves Minny overpaid..and they corrected that action by cutting him two years later.

Most of the reasons he was cut for his distracting off the field stuff and salary cap issues. He has shown he is a better player, and putting him in a position where he has to cover worse receivers can only increase his productivity.

He was so effective in Washington he was let go. He was so effective in Minny, he was benched and then cut, not for salary cap reasons, but because of performance reasons.

And you contradict yourself too often. You say that you never made a claim that Glenn was better, then you say that Smoot has to prove he is better.

In my very first post to you, I stated that Smoot has to prove he's efficient as a #3. Because since the season hasn't started, that particular fact is unknown. And only THEN can a legitimate comparison between the two be made.

Make a stand, if you think Glenn is better, say so... If you think that Smoot can't play nickel, say that. But this whole, I'm going to act like Glenn is better so I can argue that the Boys have a better nickel but not actually say anything so I don't have to provide evidence ("why should I provide evidence when I never made that claim") doesn't fly.

Are you really that bothered by the fact that I won't say Glenn is better than Smoot? I'm not even arguing that one player is better than another. I stated one who's effective in his role. That would be Glenn. And one who hasn't proven to be effective in his new role as a #3. That would be Smoot and it's only applicable if that's the role he's actually going to play.

And you're mad because I won't say Glenn is better than Smoot. Pffpt.

 

[superpunk]

Why is it always the personal attacks dude? I am half-tempted to ignore everything you say because everything starts off with "you don't know anything" because I disagree.

Get down off that cross, we need the wood. You should try not deserving the tongue lashings doled out.

Newman doesn't always move to the slot. When there is a dangerous receiver (this year that is), Newman stays with him. Even so, they put Glenn on the easiest person to cover, that's the role of nickelback. So comparing the #1 CB to a nickel corner is ******** because the roles are different. Might as well compare a DE to a DT.

No, your statement about Glenn probably being matched up on the #3 receiver was ********. Unless there was a specific matchup we needed Newman to take away, he moves to the slot. I believe we only matched him up against Moss and Smith last year.

I also (now) fail to understand why you are referring to Smoot as a #1 CB? Have you ever heard of Antoine Winfield? They do not put Glenn on the easiest person to cover, because Parcells does not play matchups, except in those few instances I outlined above. He plays who lines up across from him, and often when he is on the field, that is the #1 WR.

I'm not arguing his production in Minny, I don't know why it fell off. He was good in Washington, and returning to the same scheme might help. Or just having less responsibilities.

So, you've elected to ignore his most recent atrocious struggles, and let your mind reside in some dream land where he'll get better simply because he's going to be wearing ketchup and mustard rather than Purple and Gold. I've got news for ya buddy, it doesn't work that way. We heard the same tales about Archuletta and Lloyd last year, you're simply wrong on your speculation. He was dreadful in Minnesota.

I'm not sure if you missed or ignored the SEVENTH-WORST STARTING CB in the NFL comment, but it's still there, laughing at you.

Maintained his job as not starting in a secondary that only one person can cover anybody. There is no point there. If you put DeAngelo Hall in as nickel, I'm sure he'd light it up, the responsibilities are considerably less.

The responsibilities are not less. Playing the slot frmo a nickel package is one of the most difficult assignments in the NFL, which is why most teams move their #1 CBs to that spot in the nickel package.

Patently-false? You know, your right... Let me act like everything is great in Cowboy land and the Skins will never go anywhere.

Your hyperbolic response doesn't make you any less wrong. Just "louder" wrong.

 

[superpunk]

But yet you are arguing this point with me. I make a claim, and if you don't have anything to say either way, there's a good chance that you shouldn't say anything. That's like somebody saying I think Hiliary Clinton should be president and then I jump up and say, I have no opinion on the subject! I just wasted everyone's time, didn't I?


That's your opinion, but the statement about Smoot never being efficient as a starter is completely false. If he wasn't, why did Minny pay $34 mil for him (including $11mil in bonuses)? He was an effective starter for Washington.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18156-2005Mar8.html


Most of the reasons he was cut for his distracting off the field stuff and salary cap issues. He has shown he is a better player, and putting him in a position where he has to cover worse receivers can only increase his productivity.
And you contradict yourself too often. You say that you never made a claim that Glenn was better, then you say that Smoot has to prove he is better. Make a stand, if you think Glenn is better, say so... If you think that Smoot can't play nickel, say that. But this whole, I'm going to act like Glenn is better so I can argue that the Boys have a better nickel but not actually say anything so I don't have to provide evidence ("why should I provide evidence when I never made that claim") doesn't fly.

This is a particularly brilliant post, and not just because you appear to not be aware of what "contradict" means.

It's also funny because you are in denial over why Smoot was let go from Minnesota (he was awful), and you give WG a hard time just because she won't engage in the same uber-homeristic rationale you have come to love.

Your argument for Smoot being better than Glenn boils down to how you perceive he played three years ago, and your personal opinion of him because he plays for your favorite team (which sucks, w00t!). WG could just as easily make a post hyping Glenn using how she "feels" about him as a basis for judgement, but you berate her because she won't engage in such an infantile system of evaluation?

Ridiculous...

 

[firehawk350]

Actually, I'm not arguing the point. I think you made a comment without anything to back it up. And when challenged on it, tried to redirect the discussion by trying to attack something I never said. But whatever. Keep on with that..

And just fyi, please don't make political comments on this board. They're not allowed.

I never said one thing about Clinton (if it's a good idea or bad one). I merely used an example. Mentioning a person's name is hardly a political comment...

That just proves Minny overpaid..and they corrected that action by cutting him two years later.
He was so effective in Washington he was let go. He was so effective in Minny, he was benched and then cut, not for salary cap reasons, but because of performance reasons.

Washington put out an offer for $10mil in bonuses. Hardly "let go". And being paid like a good CB is hardly negative proof for being a bad one. He was perceived as a good CB and he struggled and released. It happens all the time when players switch schemes/coaches.

In my very first post to you, I stated that Smoot has to prove he's efficient as a #3. Because since the season hasn't started, that particular fact is unknown. And only THEN can a legitimate comparison between the two be made.
Are you really that bothered by the fact that I won't say Glenn is better than Smoot? I'm not even arguing that one player is better than another. I stated one who's effective in his role. That would be Glenn. And one who hasn't proven to be effective in his new role as a #3. That would be Smoot and it's only applicable if that's the role he's actually going to play.

And you're mad because I won't say Glenn is better than Smoot. Pffpt.

No, I'm not mad. Smoot is a better corner. That's my stand. And if you put a better corner in the same position, the better corner *should* do better. Do you disagree with anything I say there?

 

[adamknite]

No, I'm not mad. Smoot is a better corner. That's my stand. And if you put a better corner in the same position, the better corner *should* do better. Do you disagree with anything I say there?

You're saying Smoot is the better #1 CB... the nickle corner is a different position trust me. Smoot hasn't played the nickle yet so your comparison on positions makes no sense.

 

[DallasEast]

Washington put out an offer for $10mil in bonuses. Hardly "let go".

Umm... The $10 million signing bonus was NOT the issue...

Smoot's departure from Washington appeared inevitable late last season after he rebuffed an extension, which included a $10.5 million signing bonus. The Commanders did not budge from that offer once free agency began March 1, partly because of salary cap constraints caused by trading wide receiver Laveranues Coles to the New York Jets for wideout Santana Moss.

Although Minnesota's signing bonus offer was similar to Washington's, according to sources, Minnesota's contract was structured so that Smoot received an average salary of $6 million over the first three years -- significantly higher than Washington's offer. In addition, a player is less likely to be released from a contract during its first three years.

- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18156-2005Mar8.html

Washington dumped his arse for the same habitually annual reason: their woeful salary cap. Still, the part highlighted in red is too funny...

 

[superpunk]

You're saying Smoot is the better #1 CB... the nickle corner is a different position trust me. Smoot hasn't played the nickle yet so your comparison on positions makes no sense.

I don't know for sure, but Smoot probably played in nickel scenarios after getting benched for his incredibly terrible play last season. Whether he moved to the slot or not, I have no idea, I didn't watch Minnesota enough.

In any case, Smoot is apparently going to be fine the same way the Skins woeful run defense is suddenly going to be "fine", despite them not changing anything.

Majik!

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Kudos in 1996 to be able to say the Cowboys wouldn't win another playoff game for at least a decade. And you also predicted them losing a playoff game at home to Jake Plummer and the sorry Cardinals? Man, on point

Nice work

Yet, despite the mediocrity in which Dallas has been steeped over the past decade, the Cowboys have still won three Super Bowls since the Commanders last won one Super Bowl. As a Commander fan, that should concern you.

 

[1fisher]

Umm... The $10 million signing bonus was NOT the issue...


- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18156-2005Mar8.html

Washington dumped his arse for the same habitually annual reason: their woeful salary cap. Still, the part highlighted in red is too funny...

:laugh2:

you should have posted this jewel 5 pages ago!

 

[Bob Sacamano]

flash-back to '05, Aaron Glenn is one-on-one w/ Plaxico Burress for the majority of the game because Henry is out, he gives up 52 yards and 0 TDs, keep in mind that in '05, PLax averaged 81 yards receiving a game

I have never seen Smoot shut anyone down in forever, this discussion sucks, firehawk, you're a damn homer, just because Smoot has started in the past, does not mean that he is now the greatest 3rd CB in the world, but hey, keep polishing that turd, and keep avoiding the fact that Smoot is one of the worst starting CBs in the league

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't know for sure, but Smoot probably played in nickel scenarios after getting benched for his incredibly terrible play last season. Whether he moved to the slot or not, I have no idea, I didn't watch Minnesota enough.

In any case, Smoot is apparently going to be fine the same way the Skins woeful run defense is suddenly going to be "fine", despite them not changing anything.

Majik!

it doesn't matter if he moved into the slot, the Minny pass D didn't improve if he did

 

[smarta5150]

it doesn't matter if he moved into the slot, the Minny pass D didn't improve if he did

Welcome back

 

[Bob Sacamano]

It happens all the time when players switch schemes/coaches.

no it doesn't, it only happens all the time to you guys

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Welcome back

glad to be back

 

[1fisher]

glad to be back

where have you been?

 

[silverbear]

just my point,how bout having none?

My team's drafting 22nd this year, after a playoff appearance last year... it is a team regarded by most of the analysts as being on the rise...

Your team's drafting 6th this year, and has become rather a joke around the league...

That's the only point I care about, right now... which team is better situated to find success in the near future??

Everything else is just troll hot air...

 

[silverbear]

OBVIOUSLY you havent got the message,your owner has gone 11 years no playoff wins..maybe his early success gave you cowboy fans a 11 year time grace period to win at least another playoff game..thats cool with me...but as a Commanders fan i would want a owner change asap,if we went 11 years with the same owner and not 1 PLAYOFF WIN...I dont care if he won superbowls..(11 years)

Refresh my memory, what is the Skins' team record since Danny Boy bought them??

Oh wait, I know-- the Skins have gone 61-71 over those 8 years... they've had a winning record exactly twice in that span...

If I was a Skins fan, I'd want an owner change ASAP if "we" went 10 games under .500 over 8 years...

 

[silverbear]

Obviously not great, but total offense isn't the best indicator of offensive line play.

Actually, I do think that total offense is just about the best barometer of offensive line play available... good offenses tend to operate behind good offensive lines, bad offenses tend to feature bad lines...

Cmon Silver, we couldn't find the cap room? No one on this planet believes that.

Well, let's just say that if they had matched that offer he received, they wouldn't have had any cap room left to do anything else, so they made the choice not to...

Not trying to bash Dock, he played well for us and steadily improved from season to season. I wouldn't have minded us overpaying to keep him, but I don't mind that we didn't. He isn't the best fit for our offense, great at the point of attack, but not so great pulling and zone blocking.

And yet, at no point have the Skins really tried to replace him... this would seem to contradict your assertion, it would seem to suggest they thought he fit in just fine...

Probably, but it doesn't mean our offense won't improve.

Absent additions to offset the losses, how do you figure the offense improves by downgrading yourselves at offensive guard??

Or did I miss some offensive additions??

Not true at all, he showed intangibles that good QBs need, thing you can't teach.

About the only such intangible I can think of is he didn't turn the ball over too often... of course, the Skins "dumbed down" the offense, didn't ask him to do too much, either... what happens when Al Saunders expects him to master all of that complicated offense??

It's not just the players, we don't have a passing game. No bread and butter plays, no consistency at QB or in our overall team offense. That's why we run so many WR screens and play-action bump and gos.

But... but... but I thought you guys have a Hall of Fame coaching staff??

Let's not go crazy with the Ladell argument, he's great in his role, but he won't lead our team to any victories. He lacks toughness and break-away speed. As for our offense, well, it just aint very good, injuries or not.

Sorry about "going crazy", but Betts is my favorite Commander these days... I really like his game...

I think your biggest problems on offense are a) the quarterback position, and b) the lack of depth... I think your starters on offense are just fine, for the most part... certainly, I don't think you have the problems on offense that you do on defense...

OTOH, look at the age of Samuels, Jansen and Thomas, and you might recognize that there is a rather large problem looming on the horizon... I refer, of course, to a number of the starters on your OL getting rather old...

Probably, but it still doesn't mean our D won't improve. Last season was a disaster, players having problems with players, with the coaches, coaches having problems with eachother, etc.

Y'know, I respect your honesty in this debate, and I think you've hit on a VERY big key to the debacle last season-- "coaches having problems with each other"...

Unfortunately for you, I believe that to be an ongoing problem... too many chiefs (head coaches in waiting like Saunders, Williams and Bugel), not enough Indians... what an ironic problem for a team that calls itself the Commanders to have, eh??

Don't even go there. I'll never forgive our FO for letting Clark go, one of my favorite players. Great guy; the prototypical over-acheiver. As for Arch, he'll be great in Chicago, of course, playing next to one of the best D-Lines and LB cores in the league can make anyone look great,

Perhaps the Skins should have realized they didn't have the personnel to maximize his skills... he never was a good fit in Washington, to be honest...

Asante would piss me off, he wouldn't help anything and benefits from playing in the NE defense.

I think he's kinda overrated...

I could deal with the Briggs move, we've done far worse for me to complain about trading for a young pro-bowl LB.

Like Archuleta, I don't think Briggs would be a good fit in Washington... he also needs to have a strong DL tying up blockers, letting him run to the ball...

Agreed though, we should stay at #6. I don't care who we draft, I don't care if we don't go D-Line and draft Landry or whatever, we need talent at pretty much every position.

Just about anybody you guys could draft at pick 6 ought to be able to come in and help y'all right from the start...

If we would build something stable then it would work, but not when you change coaches, personnel and schemes every year.

My man, I think you have just summed up the root of the problems at Commanders Park these last few years PERFECTLY...

I'm guessing they don't care much for your brand of hard-headed realism over on Extremeskins...

 

[silverbear]

A young QB more like it. I think we'll be fine at stopping the run this year.

And why, pray tell, do you think that??

I mean, they ranked 27th in the NFL last year in run defense, giving up 137.3 yards per game... they were 24th in yards per carry allowed, at 4.5 yards per carry...

Did I miss some major defensive changes??

I like our CB depth far more then I like yours.

Let's see-- you've got the oft-injured Shawn Springs (22 games missed over the last 6 seasons), Carlos Rogers coming off a MAJOR sophomore slump... then, you added a small cornerback from the league's worst pass defense, who was in and out of the starting lineup (Fred Smoot), and a cornerback from the league's 30th ranked pass defense, who was riding the bench for his team until game 11 last year (David Macklin)...

Newman is better than any of those four... Henry is a solid starter, certainly at least as good as Rogers, and Aaron Glenn is better than either Smoot or Macklin... now, 4th CB is a bit of a question mark, if only because we don't know who the Boys' 4th corner is likely to be-- it could be Jacques Reeves, it could be Nathan Jones, it could be Quincy Butler... it could even be Joey Thomas...

 

[silverbear]

Pierce isn't on the level that Fletcher is. 1092 tackles (averages over 100 tackles/year), 27.5 sacks (averages 3/yr), 11 INTs (averages a hair over 1/yr).
Pierce has 341 tackles (averages 69/yr), 5.5 sacks (averages less then one/yr), 6 INTs (averages 1/yr). Theres not a statisical category that Pierce even matches Fletcher.

Including the most important one-- games played...

Having played in 144 games, and racked up almost 1100 tackles, your new linebacker doesn't have a lot of tread left on those ol' tires... each hit is one hit closer to the end of a long career...