D-line review

theSHOW

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Got to know where the play is headed and retreat to get a potential angle for an assist. Containing the ballcarrier is key. Every man counts. Bishop needs to continue to be part of the play even if he is seemingly out. This holds true for everybody.
 

rpntex

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We had a shot at jernigan in the 2 and but Stephen Jones assured us that we could draft 1 tech later in the draft.

What was more important---the 1-tech or a speed rusher (Lawrence). We weren't going to be able to get both.
 

rpntex

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I'd didn't write down the play by play but I did watch every play at least 4 times, focusing on each individual. Here's my thoughts:

Hayden is by far our biggest problem. He holds ground against single teams, that's about it. And against doubles, he gets blown out, causing huge running lanes. You could see them go at him again and again... His "pass rush" usually just gets in the way of others. Sadly, he was out there quite a bit on 3rd down (partly bc we had a lot of 3rd and 4s). Even sadder, he is our best #1, the only one who didn't lose seemingly every play. Nobody has talked about it all off-season, but the biggest training camp injury was Terrell McClain. We need him, and maybe Brent, quick.

Bishop can hold ground almost as good as Hayden, and might have something eventually, but right now, he just can't get out of blocks. And he doesn't do any better against double teams. I think he's practice squad, if T. McClain can play. He gets blown out more than Hayden, although he makes a better stand here and there. Turns backwards too much. Needs to drop the knee.

Coleman, on the other hand, we have something here. He has great quickness and a mean spin move (one of the best I have seen). He gets blown out too much and plays with poor technique. He needs to work on not turning his back when his fist move doesn't work. He maybe relies on te spin move too much and goes to it after absorbing a good punch. Can't do that. Gotta just hold ground then. He can learn this I think. Right now, he just swings for the fences every play and if he doesn't get a hit, he gets beat pretty bad. But as a 3, he is doing his job a lot. Moving the play a little, causing hesitation, filtering back to the middle. unfortunately, the middle is where we are awful (see above).

Mincey is interesting. He had some real nice pass rush from the 3 (great swim move) and one good pressure from the edge. He seems to read the play well and usually contains on the runs, filtering back inside (which is what he's supposed to do, but for our biggest problem). But he's not special. We can win with him. I even like him inside on passing downs. But there's not the speed to run things down from the backside. He seems to take plays off if they go away from him, but overall his effort is there. He seems competitive.

Crawford really flashes. He split time, so he's not out there as much, but he's gotten pressure in run and passing games pretty steady. He knows how to get off blocks. He doesn't trust his outside edge speed so he always fakes that and cuts back inside. Here, he has power. And his hand fighting is improving. He is reminding me of a young Spencer -- "the almost" Spencer. But he can develop. he rushed from the inside one time and he got past with an under move but didn't show the technique to straighten out and really get the qb. looked like he's been working on outside tech much more.

Selvie looked sluggish at first but came on some. He was held a couple of times and not called later in the half, including the play he got hurt on. He, Mincey, and Crawford make a great strong DE rotation. Problem is, I think we have about 3 of the same players here. Average to a little above average pros, 6-8 sack range on a good defense. But they should be your #2 rushers, getting you 12 sacks combined off the strong side.

So, we have no speed rusher. Wilson is trash, unless it's 3rd and long and he can just speed off. He shies from contact and people just run into his gaping holes every time.

Minter looked about the same as Bishop and worse than Coleman. He's more like Coleman than Bishop, less stout, not a candidate for the 1. Against other 1s, he was invisible or just getting blasted. So, he's not the savior -- again, we need a 1.

We are fine with Melton, Coleman, Mincey, Crawford getting snaps at the 3 (or the pass rushing 1 on 3rd and long). I think Coleman could really be a spark plug as the backup. Someone doesn't quite study enough film of his spin move, and that's a pressure a game. Mincey looked really nice rushing inside. He's slower than tackles but quicker than guards. Crawford might get some looks there, too.

We are more than fine on the strong-side De. We need a quicker rusher (Spencer or Dlaw maybe). But mostly, we need a 1. Can a fat butt be that hard to find?

Good analysis. I'm of the opinion that Hayden and Bishop are pretty much the same player right now. Bishop has room to get batter, hwoever, while I think Hayden is just about all we can hope he'll be. Advantage - Bishop.

I still think Terrell McClain will make a huge (pardon the pun) difference once he's back, as will Melton. I also think we'll be okay on the SS DE spot between Selvie, Crawford, and Spencer. The problem is going to be the weak side until Lawrence gets back (if he can this year - you just don't know with a foot). I had hopes for Wilson, but he was just getting tossed around like a rag doll and was especially vulnerable against the run.

I still have high hopes for Dartwan Bush. My Red Raider roots may be coloring my judgement a little, but I've seen him so may times be in the backfield before the QB can set his feet in college, I hope he can do it at this level. He's a lot stronger than his size would lead you to believe. I think he can be a part of the WSDE rotation.

So here's what I see happening---every position a "rotation"

SSDE - Selvie/Spencer/Crawford
WSDE - Wilber/Mincey/Bush until Lawrence returns, then we'll see who's the odd man out.
3-tech - Melton/Crawford/Coleman
1-tech - McClain/Bishop

Notice Hayden's name is missing. I also know that's 11 names there. Once Lawrence is back, I think we have to let one go.
 

waving monkey

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Yeah. I know. I think we didn't like him, and he would have cost us Lawrence, who might end up being a lot more important piece of the puzzle. With our luck, Jernigan would have broken a foot the first week of camp, anyway.

Lawrence was diffidently viewed as more important then a 1
 

TheDude

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Yeah. I know. I think we didn't like him, and he would have cost us Lawrence, who might end up being a lot more important piece of the puzzle. With our luck, Jernigan would have broken a foot the first week of camp, anyway.


That's cynical. THat'll drive a wedge in our relationship Idgit
 

speedkilz88

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Good analysis. I'm of the opinion that Hayden and Bishop are pretty much the same player right now. Bishop has room to get batter, hwoever, while I think Hayden is just about all we can hope he'll be. Advantage - Bishop.

I still think Terrell McClain will make a huge (pardon the pun) difference once he's back, as will Melton. I also think we'll be okay on the SS DE spot between Selvie, Crawford, and Spencer. The problem is going to be the weak side until Lawrence gets back (if he can this year - you just don't know with a foot). I had hopes for Wilson, but he was just getting tossed around like a rag doll and was especially vulnerable against the run.

I still have high hopes for Dartwan Bush. My Red Raider roots may be coloring my judgement a little, but I've seen him so may times be in the backfield before the QB can set his feet in college, I hope he can do it at this level. He's a lot stronger than his size would lead you to believe. I think he can be a part of the WSDE rotation.

So here's what I see happening---every position a "rotation"

SSDE - Selvie/Spencer/Crawford
WSDE - Wilber/Mincey/Bush until Lawrence returns, then we'll see who's the odd man out.
3-tech - Melton/Crawford/Coleman
1-tech - McClain/Bishop

Notice Hayden's name is missing. I also know that's 11 names there. Once Lawrence is back, I think we have to let one go.

Spencer can play RE, and if he's back before Lawrence he's a great bet to be there. From what I've seen they keep putting Bush at the LE. I think Boatright has a chance.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Keep in mind that plays like the one where Bishop was being moved downfield on an inside run to the offensive right, that he has to give ground to make the backside pursuit while engaged with 2 blockers. I'm not saying he played it perfectly, but he would be of no value on that play if the just held his ground right at the line of scrimmage, because the run was to the opposite side of the Center from him. There's not value to him holding up blockers while the RB bursts though the hole vacated by the other DT Coleman. Bishop has to tried to flow to that play, but it makes it appear that he is getting driven yards downfield.

I've seen Hayden against similar plays and he didn't appear to be driven back, but he didn't get over and flow with the play which gives him no chance to make a play.

That is what I see as well. When Bishop has to come across the face of the center to try and pursue. He gets held up. It was bringing a double team from the playside guard and engaging the center. He forced a double team. Sure he loses a bit of ground but that means a LB is free to make a play when the back cuts back behind the double team. Hitchens in particular was bad about taking away that cutback as the will.
 

Idgit

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That's cynical. THat'll drive a wedge in our relationship Idgit

I didn't mean *his* foot. I figured he'd step on Matt Johnson or Sean Lee or somebody else who we all don't like already.
 

TheDude

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So you would have us believe that Jernigan would step on an inactive player in the film room, break his and the others players foot and Matt Johnson would pull a hammygetting out of the chair?

muck. Take down the pot. I can't call that. Odds are in your favor 57/43
 

xwalker

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That is what I see as well. When Bishop has to come across the face of the center to try and pursue. He gets held up. It was bringing a double team from the playside guard and engaging the center. He forced a double team. Sure he loses a bit of ground but that means a LB is free to make a play when the back cuts back behind the double team. Hitchens in particular was bad about taking away that cutback as the will.

Sounds like we are in agreement.

Even a quality veteran 1-tech would have to give some ground to get across and move towards the RB, IMO. Let's say that Bishop gains a yard laterally for each yard that he loses going backwards, then I think a really good NFL veteran player might gain 1-1/2 yards laterally for each yard moving backwards or something like that, if that makes sense.
 

xwalker

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Good analysis. I'm of the opinion that Hayden and Bishop are pretty much the same player right now. Bishop has room to get batter, hwoever, while I think Hayden is just about all we can hope he'll be. Advantage - Bishop.

I still think Terrell McClain will make a huge (pardon the pun) difference once he's back, as will Melton. I also think we'll be okay on the SS DE spot between Selvie, Crawford, and Spencer. The problem is going to be the weak side until Lawrence gets back (if he can this year - you just don't know with a foot). I had hopes for Wilson, but he was just getting tossed around like a rag doll and was especially vulnerable against the run.

I still have high hopes for Dartwan Bush. My Red Raider roots may be coloring my judgement a little, but I've seen him so may times be in the backfield before the QB can set his feet in college, I hope he can do it at this level. He's a lot stronger than his size would lead you to believe. I think he can be a part of the WSDE rotation.

So here's what I see happening---every position a "rotation"

SSDE - Selvie/Spencer/Crawford
WSDE - Wilber/Mincey/Bush until Lawrence returns, then we'll see who's the odd man out.
3-tech - Melton/Crawford/Coleman
1-tech - McClain/Bishop

Notice Hayden's name is missing. I also know that's 11 names there. Once Lawrence is back, I think we have to let one go.

Spencer can play RE, and if he's back before Lawrence he's a great bet to be there. From what I've seen they keep putting Bush at the LE. I think Boatright has a chance.

I tend to like Bush slightly better than Boatright from what I've seen; however, Speed has a point that I only remember Bush playing at LDE.
 

rpntex

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Spencer can play RE, and if he's back before Lawrence he's a great bet to be there. From what I've seen they keep putting Bush at the LE. I think Boatright has a chance.

I just don't see Spencer playing on the weak side. As a 3-4 LBer, he was pretty much always on the strong side. I know he can play the weak side (any DE can) but can he be effective? That's my concern.
 

CF74

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I like Coleman more than Bishop and Hayden so far, so much more upside from what I've seen to date...
 
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