D-line review

ejthedj

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I'd didn't write down the play by play but I did watch every play at least 4 times, focusing on each individual. Here's my thoughts:

Hayden is by far our biggest problem. He holds ground against single teams, that's about it. And against doubles, he gets blown out, causing huge running lanes. You could see them go at him again and again... His "pass rush" usually just gets in the way of others. Sadly, he was out there quite a bit on 3rd down (partly bc we had a lot of 3rd and 4s). Even sadder, he is our best #1, the only one who didn't lose seemingly every play. Nobody has talked about it all off-season, but the biggest training camp injury was Terrell McClain. We need him, and maybe Brent, quick.

Bishop can hold ground almost as good as Hayden, and might have something eventually, but right now, he just can't get out of blocks. And he doesn't do any better against double teams. I think he's practice squad, if T. McClain can play. He gets blown out more than Hayden, although he makes a better stand here and there. Turns backwards too much. Needs to drop the knee.

Coleman, on the other hand, we have something here. He has great quickness and a mean spin move (one of the best I have seen). He gets blown out too much and plays with poor technique. He needs to work on not turning his back when his fist move doesn't work. He maybe relies on te spin move too much and goes to it after absorbing a good punch. Can't do that. Gotta just hold ground then. He can learn this I think. Right now, he just swings for the fences every play and if he doesn't get a hit, he gets beat pretty bad. But as a 3, he is doing his job a lot. Moving the play a little, causing hesitation, filtering back to the middle. unfortunately, the middle is where we are awful (see above).

Mincey is interesting. He had some real nice pass rush from the 3 (great swim move) and one good pressure from the edge. He seems to read the play well and usually contains on the runs, filtering back inside (which is what he's supposed to do, but for our biggest problem). But he's not special. We can win with him. I even like him inside on passing downs. But there's not the speed to run things down from the backside. He seems to take plays off if they go away from him, but overall his effort is there. He seems competitive.

Crawford really flashes. He split time, so he's not out there as much, but he's gotten pressure in run and passing games pretty steady. He knows how to get off blocks. He doesn't trust his outside edge speed so he always fakes that and cuts back inside. Here, he has power. And his hand fighting is improving. He is reminding me of a young Spencer -- "the almost" Spencer. But he can develop. he rushed from the inside one time and he got past with an under move but didn't show the technique to straighten out and really get the qb. looked like he's been working on outside tech much more.

Selvie looked sluggish at first but came on some. He was held a couple of times and not called later in the half, including the play he got hurt on. He, Mincey, and Crawford make a great strong DE rotation. Problem is, I think we have about 3 of the same players here. Average to a little above average pros, 6-8 sack range on a good defense. But they should be your #2 rushers, getting you 12 sacks combined off the strong side.

So, we have no speed rusher. Wilson is trash, unless it's 3rd and long and he can just speed off. He shies from contact and people just run into his gaping holes every time.

Minter looked about the same as Bishop and worse than Coleman. He's more like Coleman than Bishop, less stout, not a candidate for the 1. Against other 1s, he was invisible or just getting blasted. So, he's not the savior -- again, we need a 1.

We are fine with Melton, Coleman, Mincey, Crawford getting snaps at the 3 (or the pass rushing 1 on 3rd and long). I think Coleman could really be a spark plug as the backup. Someone doesn't quite study enough film of his spin move, and that's a pressure a game. Mincey looked really nice rushing inside. He's slower than tackles but quicker than guards. Crawford might get some looks there, too.

We are more than fine on the strong-side De. We need a quicker rusher (Spencer or Dlaw maybe). But mostly, we need a 1. Can a fat butt be that hard to find?
 

BAT

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Nice write up OP. Agree that Cowboys are hurting at 1and 9. Tried to warn everyone about Wilson, not physical enough to play DL. He really would have been better off as a pass rushing specialist from SAM ala Bruce Irvin in Seattle. But Wilson has been more productive than Ojomo, Rayford (still like him tho) and even Bush, during games.

Problem is that Cowboys have a lot of depth guys and not enough starters. Melton, McClain, Brent, Okoye, Spencer even the rook Lawrence are not saviors either. Putting all our eggs in one basket for injured/inexperienced players is an unsound strategy. Dallas may be able to salvage a better 1 tech off someone else's scrap heap but they need to trade for a proven 9 tech (WDE).

Claiborne, Carr, Randle/Williams, Weeden are not the future. But they can assist us getting that type of player.
 

xwalker

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I'd didn't write down the play by play but I did watch every play at least 4 times, focusing on each individual. Here's my thoughts:

Hayden is by far our biggest problem. He holds ground against single teams, that's about it. And against doubles, he gets blown out, causing huge running lanes. You could see them go at him again and again... His "pass rush" usually just gets in the way of others. Sadly, he was out there quite a bit on 3rd down (partly bc we had a lot of 3rd and 4s). Even sadder, he is our best #1, the only one who didn't lose seemingly every play. Nobody has talked about it all off-season, but the biggest training camp injury was Terrell McClain. We need him, and maybe Brent, quick.

Bishop can hold ground almost as good as Hayden, and might have something eventually, but right now, he just can't get out of blocks. And he doesn't do any better against double teams. I think he's practice squad, if T. McClain can play. He gets blown out more than Hayden, although he makes a better stand here and there. Turns backwards too much. Needs to drop the knee.

Coleman, on the other hand, we have something here. He has great quickness and a mean spin move (one of the best I have seen). He gets blown out too much and plays with poor technique. He needs to work on not turning his back when his fist move doesn't work. He maybe relies on te spin move too much and goes to it after absorbing a good punch. Can't do that. Gotta just hold ground then. He can learn this I think. Right now, he just swings for the fences every play and if he doesn't get a hit, he gets beat pretty bad. But as a 3, he is doing his job a lot. Moving the play a little, causing hesitation, filtering back to the middle. unfortunately, the middle is where we are awful (see above).

Mincey is interesting. He had some real nice pass rush from the 3 (great swim move) and one good pressure from the edge. He seems to read the play well and usually contains on the runs, filtering back inside (which is what he's supposed to do, but for our biggest problem). But he's not special. We can win with him. I even like him inside on passing downs. But there's not the speed to run things down from the backside. He seems to take plays off if they go away from him, but overall his effort is there. He seems competitive.

Crawford really flashes. He split time, so he's not out there as much, but he's gotten pressure in run and passing games pretty steady. He knows how to get off blocks. He doesn't trust his outside edge speed so he always fakes that and cuts back inside. Here, he has power. And his hand fighting is improving. He is reminding me of a young Spencer -- "the almost" Spencer. But he can develop. he rushed from the inside one time and he got past with an under move but didn't show the technique to straighten out and really get the qb. looked like he's been working on outside tech much more.

Selvie looked sluggish at first but came on some. He was held a couple of times and not called later in the half, including the play he got hurt on. He, Mincey, and Crawford make a great strong DE rotation. Problem is, I think we have about 3 of the same players here. Average to a little above average pros, 6-8 sack range on a good defense. But they should be your #2 rushers, getting you 12 sacks combined off the strong side.

So, we have no speed rusher. Wilson is trash, unless it's 3rd and long and he can just speed off. He shies from contact and people just run into his gaping holes every time.

Minter looked about the same as Bishop and worse than Coleman. He's more like Coleman than Bishop, less stout, not a candidate for the 1. Against other 1s, he was invisible or just getting blasted. So, he's not the savior -- again, we need a 1.

We are fine with Melton, Coleman, Mincey, Crawford getting snaps at the 3 (or the pass rushing 1 on 3rd and long). I think Coleman could really be a spark plug as the backup. Someone doesn't quite study enough film of his spin move, and that's a pressure a game. Mincey looked really nice rushing inside. He's slower than tackles but quicker than guards. Crawford might get some looks there, too.

We are more than fine on the strong-side De. We need a quicker rusher (Spencer or Dlaw maybe). But mostly, we need a 1. Can a fat butt be that hard to find?

Excellent analysis.

I think Bishop is at least as good as Hayden but Bishop is likely to get better.

I've harped on the T. McClain issue to the point that people laugh about it. I didn't expect him to be All-Pro, but I really think he would easily be better than Hayden if healthy.

I had high hopes for Wilson with his athleticism, but he just didn't have any power to go with the speed. Bush and Boatright both looked better, IMO.
 

ejthedj

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Excellent analysis.

I think Bishop is at least as good as Hayden but Bishop is likely to get better.

I've harped on the T. McClain issue to the point that people laugh about it. I didn't expect him to be All-Pro, but I really think he would easily be better than Hayden if healthy.

I had high hopes for Wilson with his athleticism, but he just didn't have any power to go with the speed. Bush and Boatright both looked better, IMO.

I think Bishop has more potential than Hayden but he is not as good right now. Hayden only gets pushed 3 yards. Bishop sometimes gets blown out. And Bishop just can't get off blocks. Sometimes, though, he flashes being able to withstand a double team more than Hayden
 

jobberone

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Hayden is a backup at best but I don't see his replacement either. He does hold some double teams so I don't see him as bad as some. But again he's nothing to hang your hat on.

I agree with everyone in all the threads. We need a WDE. Right now we need Spencer, McClain, Melton, Selvie and maybe Brent to get on the grass and play as well as we've seen them play.
 

Idgit

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I think Bishop has more potential than Hayden but he is not as good right now. Hayden only gets pushed 3 yards. Bishop sometimes gets blown out. And Bishop just can't get off blocks. Sometimes, though, he flashes being able to withstand a double team more than Hayden

That's Bishop's problem. He's not as consistently below-average as Hayden right now. We're in a bind at 1-tech unless McClain's a hail-mary.
 

reddyuta

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We arev in this situation because of marinelli, he thinks anybody can play at 1 in system and that is not the case,we had a chance to draft some good ones but we didn't and that decision is the biggest blunder in the off season and why he should be liable.
 

xwalker

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I think Bishop has more potential than Hayden but he is not as good right now. Hayden only gets pushed 3 yards. Bishop sometimes gets blown out. And Bishop just can't get off blocks. Sometimes, though, he flashes being able to withstand a double team more than Hayden

Keep in mind that plays like the one where Bishop was being moved downfield on an inside run to the offensive right, that he has to give ground to make the backside pursuit while engaged with 2 blockers. I'm not saying he played it perfectly, but he would be of no value on that play if the just held his ground right at the line of scrimmage, because the run was to the opposite side of the Center from him. There's not value to him holding up blockers while the RB bursts though the hole vacated by the other DT Coleman. Bishop has to tried to flow to that play, but it makes it appear that he is getting driven yards downfield.

I've seen Hayden against similar plays and he didn't appear to be driven back, but he didn't get over and flow with the play which gives him no chance to make a play.
 

Idgit

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We arev in this situation because of marinelli, he thinks anybody can play at 1 in system and that is not the case,we had a chance to draft some good ones but we didn't and that decision is the biggest blunder in the off season and why he should be liable.

I don't think I agree. Maybe, if there were a specific 1-tech available in a round after the 3rd that we passed on. But either McClain or Brent might represent an upgrade to last-year's starter. Brent was a long-shot, but we thought we had McClain in our pocket with insurance down the line. We didn't really need to add a third upgrade through the draft when we didn't have picks to burn.

It just turns out we then immediately got back in the position where Hayden is starting. What I want is to splice the DNA from players like Arkin and Hayden with guys like Sean Lee so we can finally field a roster of players who know what they're doing and can stay on the field.
 

jobberone

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Just read where Brent was going to be suspended for sure but anonymous. I starting to wonder if it will be a year but I'm hoping less. Others have gotten a year for DUI manslaughter.
 

reddyuta

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I don't think I agree. Maybe, if there were a specific 1-tech available in a round after the 3rd that we passed on. But either McClain or Brent might represent an upgrade to last-year's starter. Brent was a long-shot, but we thought we had McClain in our pocket with insurance down the line. We didn't really need to add a third upgrade through the draft when we didn't have picks to burn.

It just turns out we then immediately got back in the position where Hayden is starting. What I want is to splice the DNA from players like Arkin and Hayden with guys like Sean Lee so we can finally field a roster of players who know what they're doing and can stay on the field.
We had a shot at jernigan in the 2 and but Stephen Jones assured us that we could draft 1 tech later in the draft.
 

xwalker

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I don't think I agree. Maybe, if there were a specific 1-tech available in a round after the 3rd that we passed on. But either McClain or Brent might represent an upgrade to last-year's starter. Brent was a long-shot, but we thought we had McClain in our pocket with insurance down the line. We didn't really need to add a third upgrade through the draft when we didn't have picks to burn.

It just turns out we then immediately got back in the position where Hayden is starting. What I want is to splice the DNA from players like Arkin and Hayden with guys like Sean Lee so we can finally field a roster of players who know what they're doing and can stay on the field.

I think they could find a better version of Hayden in the cuts if they really wanted to do it. They might have to sign a vested veteran which would guarantee their salary, but there are probably run pluggers available. They might as well get some super wide body with no pass rush skills because Hayden has no pass rush skills either. At least the wide body would be able to hold up against the run which Hayden isn't really doing.

Physically, I really think T. McClain is what they want, but obviously he's out injured.

The version of Josh Brent that we saw just before his accident would be a great addition to this defense. He was a real Bull. He wasn't much of pass rusher, but he could drive OLinemen back into the QB.
 

xwalker

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We had a shot at jernigan in the 2 and but Stephen Jones assured us that we could draft 1 tech later in the draft.

Broaddus thinks they were considering drafting Justin Ellis in the 4th, but he went 12 picks ahead of them.
 

Idgit

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I think they could find a better version of Hayden in the cuts if they really wanted to do it. They might have to sign a vested veteran which would guarantee their salary, but there are probably run pluggers available.

Yeah. That was my first thought when I heard BJ Raji tore his bicep: crap, we just got more competition for that vet at cutdowns.
 

Idgit

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We had a shot at jernigan in the 2 and but Stephen Jones assured us that we could draft 1 tech later in the draft.

Yeah. I know. I think we didn't like him, and he would have cost us Lawrence, who might end up being a lot more important piece of the puzzle. With our luck, Jernigan would have broken a foot the first week of camp, anyway.
 
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