Dak’s third down rating

[conner01]

Was brutal all the way around. Lol.

Some of that is about what was accomplished on first and second downs
Converting 3rd and 3 is much easier than 3rd and 7
The lions game we did better on first and second downs

 

[glimmerman]

Some of that is about what was accomplished on first and second downs
Converting 3rd and 3 is much easier than 3rd and 7
The lions game we did better on first and second downs

And no penalties. Those penalties that back us up and give us a 2nd and 20. Or our Defense getting a penalty on 3rd down and having to stay on the field.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Someone said that dropped passes rating can't be true. Well here's another site that supports it

Transactions
NFL Team Leaderboards: Receiving

Receiving Categories: NFL | NFC | AFC

NFL Passes Dropped
Rank Team Passes Dropped
1 Cleveland Browns 10
2 Minnesota Vikings 10
3 Philadelphia Eagles 10
4 Green Bay Packers 9
5 Oakland Raiders 9
6 Cincinnati Bengals 8
7 Jacksonville Jaguars 8
8 Denver Broncos 7
9 Tennessee Titans 7
10 Buffalo Bills 6
11 Indianapolis Colts 6
12 Baltimore Ravens 6
13 Detroit Lions 5
14 Kansas City Chiefs 5
15 New England Patriots 5
16 New Orleans Saints 5
17 Los Angeles Chargers 5
18 Carolina Panthers 5
19 Houston Texans 4
20 Arizona Cardinals 4
21 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4
22 New York Giants 3
23 New York Jets 3
24 San Francisco 49ers 3
25 Seattle Seahawks 3
26 Chicago Bears 2
27 Miami Dolphins 2
28 Pittsburgh Steelers 2
29 Atlanta Falcons 1
30 Dallas Cowboys 1
31

I think it's more about what they classify as a drop. According to this list we only have one, I'm not 100% positive but I believe that was credited to Zeke. They way they usually determine what a drop is, is the "brain fart" type drops, like the type Dez had many of last year. They don't count the ones that many would consider a drop or the type of passes the player should have caught. I don't believe the Gallup one that led to a INT or the deep pass to Tavon in the EZ were considered drops. Zeke had a couple in the Seattle game in addition to the two times he stepped out of bounds, those fall into the gray, should have been caught area and don't show up in stats. Gallup and Hurns have had a couple that I can remember that would also fall into that category. There's also the catchable, but would have been tough type, like that deep pass to Gallup up the left sideline a couple weeks back. It's hard to classify all those types of what's a drop versus what's catchable and what's catchable for any given player. Stats are just a number and you have to know how they are derived and what's included or left out.

The TFL, tackles for loss, stat is kinda misleading.. You see a player has 2 sacks and 4 TFL, so it sounds like he had 6 total tackles behind the LOS, but it's only four since a sack is also considered a TFL.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Some folks barely watch anyone other than the Cowboys, so they know every drop our boys make - no other team could possibly have more!

The Vikings have 10 drops already and that doesn't count those catchable, but not considered a drop types. That's with a lineup with Diggs, Thelein and Rudolph....yikes.

 

[percyhoward]

This one from ESPN is up to date, and says that the Cowboys have 2 drops on the season.

I can think of 2 drops last week in the 2nd quarter alone (Austin and Hurns).

 

[Hennessy_King]

It's not like it was a genius take to predict that the Cowboys wouldn't do anything with one of the most inept GMs ever running the show. You could have replaced Romo with your choice of QB for their entire career and they would most likely have not won anything either.

Stop, Romo just wasn't that good. This offense doesn't need Dak to be an air raid QB. We need him to move the chains and not turn the ball over. I just want a winning team Idgaf about stats.

 

[Rockport]

You're on record of making stuff up about other posters to position yourself as Super Fan, in your own mind. How dare anyone be objectively critical of the Cowboys!

Righting the wrongs on Cowboys Zone, one post at a time!

I don’t make stuff up.

 

[punchnjudy]

Not a big fan of using QB rating there because a pick or a TD can swing things a ton.

Dak was at the bottom of the league last season at throwing for a first down on 3rd and long (8+ yards). Still is. This year, so far, he's near the bottom in 3rd and medium as well. Obviously it's early.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=047&type=Passing&year=

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=048&type=Passing&year=

 

[Ken]

Lol yes, im sure you are more reliable and unbiased then every source in this thread.

the old standby...every else says it so it must be right...lol

A screen is a screen...there is no bias involved.

 

[Sydla]

I don’t make stuff up.

LOL

 

[Number1]

We can all point to a play and go "See?!" but the cumulative numbers over 4 games tell a story:

Dallas leads the NFL in average per rush. Zeke's great, but someone is blocking too.

Only 3 starting QBs average more time to throw than Dak, and none of them are great QBs (because great ones get rid of the ball).

Despite that time to throw, only 9 QBs have gotten hit more than Dak and only 5 have been sacked more (because others get rid of the ball).

Dak's hesitation is his biggest weakness. Whether he can't see the field or he's too cautious to throw it the results are the same - not good enough.

are you pretending this OL is good at pass protection?

"Dallas leads the NFL in average per rush. Zeke's great, but someone is blocking too.

Only 3 starting QBs average more time to throw than Dak ... ",

if you actually think this OL is good at pass blocking you're delusional

mobile QBs create time to throw. Scheme and WRs also have a lot to do with it as well. Stats are only useful when considering cause and effect.

Here's the most glaring stat of Dak's career so far - he's won 80% of games when sacked 3/- times. Also when throwing deep he has a stellar QBR.

Dak has a classic problem, a 50/50 run/pass timing system with a very good run blocking OL, that is very iffy when it comes to pass protection. The classic solutions are quick hits down field, play action deep, and roll outs - they just need to do more of that.

 

[Number1]

ESPN is up to date, and says that the Cowboys have 2 drops on the season.

I can think of 2 drops last week in the 2nd quarter alone (Austin and Hurns).

but you're not ESPN or PFF so what you see don't matter to ignorant people trying to convince us reality ain't reality

 

[Jake]

I don’t make stuff up.

You make assumptions about people you don't know then criticize them based off those assumptions, all in an effort to position yourself as the holier-than-thou Cowboys fan. The evidence is scattered all over this forum, and no, I'm not going to dig it up for you.

I've wasted too much time on your schtick already.

 

[Gator88]

Stop, Romo just wasn't that good. This offense doesn't need Dak to be an air raid QB. We need him to move the chains and not turn the ball over. I just want a winning team Idgaf about stats.

He was better than many QBs whose teams won multiple championships. He wasn't good enough to win a championship with the inept front office/coaches he had to deal with, but I don't know if there was ever a QB who was that good.

As for Dak, usually you need a QB that has the ability to put up stats if you want to be effective at moving the ball, but hey you can hope for a Qb to move the ball and not put up stats all you want.

 

[ClintDagger]

One thing about the drops. I assume the Gallup play against Seattle was not a drop, yet it did cost dak a pick. I’m sure it happens to other teams too but thought I’d point it out.

Good defensive play. Dak made a good throw in tight coverage but the CB made a nice play to punch it out. ET was in great position. Sometimes you tip your hat to the D.

 

[pansophy]

Stop, Romo just wasn't that good. This offense doesn't need Dak to be an air raid QB. We need him to move the chains and not turn the ball over. I just want a winning team Idgaf about stats.

So I guess according to you there have only been 3 good QBs in the modern era. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_career_passer_rating_leaders

 

[percyhoward]

but you're not ESPN or PFF so what you see don't matter to ignorant people trying to convince us reality ain't reality

It looks like a lot of what normally would be considered "drops" are happening when there is less than a yard of separation, so the incompletion goes as a "contested pass" instead of a drop, even when the defender doesn't get his hand on the ball.

PFF says the Cowboys lead the NFL in percentage of pass attempts that are "contested."

 

[pansophy]

It looks like a lot of what normally would be considered "drops" are happening when there is less than a yard of separation, so the incompletion goes as a "contested pass" instead of a drop, even when the defender doesn't get his hand on the ball.

PFF says the Cowboys lead the NFL in percentage of pass attempts that are "contested."

That could mean that the WRs aren't getting open, or that Dak is throwing the ball to the wrong WR. Hard to know from that stat alone.

 

[percyhoward]

That could mean that the WRs aren't getting open, or that Dak is throwing the ball to the wrong WR. Hard to know from that stat alone.

True as far as that goes, but I was pointing out that stat in an attempt to explain why so many of our perceived "drops" weren't being counted.

 

[Number1]

It looks like a lot of what normally would be considered "drops" are happening when there is less than a yard of separation, so the incompletion goes as a "contested pass" instead of a drop, even when the defender doesn't get his hand on the ball.

PFF says the Cowboys lead the NFL in percentage of pass attempts that are "contested."

I can see that with all the tight throws, but have a few issues with PFF ... I don't really trust their objectivity

IMO popular established high round picks often get a pass, others don't, or get dissed for years

For example, Martin is an awesome OG. deserves the accolades, but he was outplayed by Cooper and Leary the last two years, but not according to PFF (or PB votes)

want proof, go watch any career highlight tape of Dak or Zeke - it's pretty clear

they are human, they have opinions and agendas and sometimes play politics