Dak - a balanced thread

[TwistedL0g1k]

Why was Paxton Lynch #25, and why was Brady a 6th rounder, and why did precious Antonio Ramiro Romo go undrafted?

After you do that can you enlighten me on why Tim Couch and Akili Smith were drafted #1 and #3?

And one last burning question: why was there such a run on bad first round QB in 2011 after Cam Newton?

I watched all those QB in college, all I seen was non NFL QBs, the highly thought of scouts saw 1st rounders

Had Dak been coming out of LSU, he would’ve been no less than a second round pick

QB is perhaps the most difficult position to draft. There are certainly examples of late round picks (or FA's) like Brady and Romo who had great careers, But- there are significantly higher numbers of first round picks who have been busts. Both facts you alluded to. There was a study that I quoted often on the other team board before it closed. It had the statistical probability of a QB making the pro-bowl, based on what round the QB was drafted in. I don't have the exact numbers anymore, but first rounders had a significantly higher probability than second rounders, and second rounders had a significantly greater chance than third rounders. After the third round, the probability dropped off like a cliff, and was extremely low. Point being, a first round pick may not be a guaranteed pro-bowler, but a late round pick is almost certainly not. Again, one can find exceptions, but that does not disprove the point.

As to your other question, the QB is such a critical position, teams will reach in the draft. We've all seen this too many times.

Now- back to the point in the post you quoted... I'll not deny Dak's strengths. He's proven to be a tough player, cool in clutch time. His record and playoff win are not easy accomplishments. I'm not a Dak hater. But- he has significant weaknesses in his game. This fact is the reason he was drafted where he was, and the reason virtually every professional analysts ranks him no better than an average QB in the league. If the draft were held again today, Goff, Wentz, and Dak would go in the exact same order. For the same reasons.

 

[Whyjerry]

OK well I know what camp you fall into...

Camp? I find it interesting that people have been conditioned to need to put other people into categories. Individualism and gray areas don't exist. Very revealing and really lazy. In your mind you need to place people into a box. In this case - Dak supporter box and Dak non supporter box. Objectivity, compromise, acknowledging that certain aspects of a view can go either way, all that stuff out the window this days. Few seconds of analysis, some validation from others, and "BAM" opinion formed. Keynes has a great quote something like "when the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"

Dak was great, then he wasn't, then he was average, and then he was good. Overlay all he has had to deal with and I think the 25 year old QB is pretty darn good. You keep hating on him though.

 

[HungryLion]

It’s not fair to blame fans when many (dare I say most) of the national pundits have the same criticisms of Dak. It’s not like we have Mahomes here and a big chunk of the fan base is ripping him. There are very legitimate reasons to think the franchise might be treading water with a guy like Dak at the helm. There’s also a lot to like about Dak as well. So it’s a toss up what his actual legacy will be.

Sure it’s fair to blame the fans when he was reacting to a specific poster/posters on this board that say Dak sucks and “can’t throw a football”.

Show me one national pundit that says “Dak can’t thtie a football”.

That is not a legitimate criticism at all. Not even close.

 

[ClintDagger]

Sure it’s fair to blame the fans when he was reacting to a specific poster/posters on this board that say Dak sucks and “can’t throw a football”.

Show me one national pundit that says “Dak can’t thtie a football”.

That is not a legitimate criticism at all. Not even close.

So you blame fans in general for the comment of one internet poster? The comment was clearly pointed at Dak critics in general and that sentiment goes well beyond the fan base.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Where did I ever say Brady won by himself, Dak is no Brady and not close in first 3 years. Learn to read please.

When you say "Brady won a SB in year 2" and Dak didn't, it infers that Brady did it by himself. You're ignoring the value of Belichick, Kraft, etc. which Dak doesn't have.

Learn to write, please...

 

[Brax]

When you say "Brady won a SB in year 2" and Dak didn't, it infers that Brady did it by himself. You're ignoring the value of Belichick, Kraft, etc. which Dak doesn't have.

Learn to write, please...

Brady was a very big part of why they won, Dak isn't close to Brady in any year. No knock on Dak but Dak had a better team in 2016 than Brady did in his second year. Stop blaming everyone else for Dak's short comings, hopefully he improves. Brady won a SB in year 2 and just won another many years later. Again you need to practice RIF, (reading is fundamental) you comprehension level is low and limited.

 

[HungryLion]

So you blame fans in general for the comment of one internet poster? The comment was clearly pointed at Dak critics in general and that sentiment goes well beyond the fan base.

He wasn’t referencing all fans in general, or even all fans critical of Dak. He was specifically referencing a small subset of fans that make completely baseless and ridiculous criticisms like “he can’t throw a football.”

That’s why he said fans are the worst sometimes. He didn’t says fans are the worst, period. The word sometimes is an important part of the sentence and has a large affect on the sentences meaning.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Brady was a very big part of why they won, Dak isn't close to Brady in any year. No knock on Dak but Dak had a better team in 2016 than Brady did in his second year. Stop blaming everyone else for Dak's short comings, hopefully he improves. Brady won a SB in year 2 and just won another many years later. Again you need to practice RIF, (reading is fundamental) you comprehension level is low and limited.

1. No way to tell if the 2001 Pats weren't as good as Dallas, that's your opinion.
2. I didn't say anything about blaming everybody else, you dreamed that up out of thin air.
3. Once again you say BRADY WON a Super Bowl. HE didn''t win it, he's the "winning quarterback", which is not the same thing. As you said also, he's a very big part of it, but not the only part.
4. My comprehension level is low? From someone who writes "you comprehension level"? It's YOUR, not you.

Obviously you just want to insult people, not discuss anything, I have no patience with that.

Kiss my grits...

 

[Brax]

1. No way to tell if the 2001 Pats weren't as good as Dallas, that's your opinion.
2. I didn't say anything about blaming everybody else, you dreamed that up out of thin air.
3. Once again you say BRADY WON a Super Bowl. HE didn''t win it, he's the "winning quarterback", which is not the same thing. As you said also, he's a very big part of it, but not the only part.
4. My comprehension level is low? From someone who writes "you comprehension level"? It's YOUR, not you.

Obviously you just want to insult people, not discuss anything, I have no patience with that.

Kiss my grits...

Sorry missed the "R" mr.perfect , insult was not my intention, your original reply set the tone. I guess LA say's it all.
"Yeah, he won it all by his little self. All you need to win SBs is a top quarterback, the rest of the team can be total crap."

 

[Philmonroe]

So you blame fans in general for the comment of one internet poster? The comment was clearly pointed at Dak critics in general and that sentiment goes well beyond the fan base.

You gotta look at the posters name and see they live through Dak so being disingenuous is in their nature regarding Dak. You're correct most national guys have mentioned similar complaints on Daks flaws but they just want to make it seem like everybody hating on this super awesome qb without flaws. The funniest thing is when these Dak followers say he has flaws but folks are being too hard by mentioning the flaws they know he has.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Sorry missed the "R" mr.perfect , insult was not my intention, your original reply set the tone. I guess LA say's it all.
"Yeah, he won it all by his little self. All you need to win SBs is a top quarterback, the rest of the team can be total crap."

I'm just tired of all the "Dak's trash", "Dak's garbage", "Dak can't throw over 20 yards accurately" crap. Be fair in your assessment or don't comment at all. Not saying you said that, but anytime I see someone act like Brady's the best ever because he was the winning quarterback by his second year, and coaching, defense, ownership and playing in a patsy division, and that Dak has to do that or he's not any good is nonsense...

 

[Vtwin]

He wasn’t referencing all fans in general, or even all fans critical of Dak. He was specifically referencing a small subset of fans that make completely baseless and ridiculous criticisms like “he can’t throw a football.”

That’s why he said fans are the worst sometimes. He didn’t says fans are the worst, period. The word sometimes is an important part of the sentence and has a large affect on the sentences meaning.

Your problem, like many of the extreme Dak fans, is you misinterpret things in order to feed your outrage.

You interpret "can't throw a football" in its most literal sense. You have programmed yourself to see the worst and make little effort to even try and objectively comprehend and understand what is really being said. This makes it impossible to have a reasonable debate.

I think most would interpret "can't throw a football" in this context, to mean cannot throw with the same accuracy and consistency as the better QB's do which is a legitimate criticism. You can easily find plenty of "experts" in the media who would agree with that.

 

[gjkoeppen]

I'm not closing the book on Dak at all. He can get better. But steps need to be taken for him to get better. He needs improved coaching and a modernized offensive scheme that simplifys his progressions. He is being held back by poor coaching, IMO. Especially the HC and his fossilized schemes.

Better OL will help. But even when he had clean pockets this year he was still holding the ball too long. He either doesn't trust what he is seeing or he doesn't see it at all. Not sure which. He needs to be more decisive and pull the trigger sooner. I think he can only play in a 1 or 2 read offense. After that, his mechanics fall apart.

He's not Nathan Peterman as some around here claim. But he's not Aaron Rodgers either. And never will be.

When you have just 1 or 2 reads that makes it way to easy on the defense which means neither receiver will be open which means he'll hold the ball longer waiting for one to get open. When Prescott has had time and hasn't thrown it, just like other QB's in the same situation those sacks are called coverage sacks. Prescott's biggest problem since 2016 has been a change in the O-line and that change hasn't been for the better.
.

 

[75boyz]

AS maligned as Eli is/was he was good QB in this league a long time. He is not a Peyton, Brees, Rothliesberger but he was better than 75% of the league in his prime.

I strongly disagree. Take away his 2011 year which Ill concede was elite and I think he is one of the most over rated quarterbacks to ever play.

He has longevity statistics based on insane durability. He has done NOTHING before 11 or since.

Don't quote me Super Bowl MVPs based on a once in a lifetime helmet catch by Tyree and another throw that he still hasn't completed again, before or since, in the second SB.

Strahan and Company won his first bowl
JPP and most of the remaining guys (namely Osi and Tuck) won his second

He's garbage. Like 2 or 3 games above .500 as a starter for his career.

Last name is all he is.

Can't throw a screen or an accurate crossing pattern to this day, 16 years later.

ILL actually take Dak over him. Lol! His footwork makes Dak's look impressive at times, lol.

Obviously, I despise him. Nothing personal.

 

[HungryLion]

Your problem, like many of the extreme Dak fans, is you misinterpret things in order to feed your outrage.

You interpret "can't throw a football" in its most literal sense. You have programmed yourself to see the worst and make little effort to even try and objectively comprehend and understand what is really being said. This makes it impossible to have a reasonable debate.

I think most would interpret "can't throw a football" in this context, to mean cannot throw with the same accuracy and consistency as the better QB's do which is a legitimate criticism. You can easily find plenty of "experts" in the media who would agree with that.

You’re right I am the extreme poster. When the person who stated he “cant throw a football” was Risen Star. A poster who purposefully and blatantly has an extreme position on Dak. I actually think Risen is a funny poster. But he consistently posts like Dak is one of the worst things that has happened to the team and that Carson Wentz is a football savior. So let’s be real, about who is or isn’t being extreme.

Im also not the poster complaining about somebody saying that fans are sometimes the worst and taking it personal.

Also, your assertion is full of assumptions about what the intent of somebody is. When somebody only says “Dak can’t throw a football” that is a garbage position because it doesn’t actually discuss what Dak can and cannot do on a football field. Because Dak can in fact throw a football. Is he perfect at it no. But just saying a blanket comment like “he can’t throw a football” is just garbage and provides no insight into what Dak’s actual weaknesses and issues are, that he needs to improve on. Meanwhile, I have had countless posts talking about Dak’s poor footwork and saying that he needs to improve his footwork and be more consistent with it, to take the next step.

That would be the equivalent of saying an OL with some issues “can’t block” or a CB with some issues “can’t cover”. It’s useless garbage.

I’m also not outraged at all. I actually like most of Risen’s posts and think he is funny. But if somebody says something the has no value or merit, I am going to respond to it accordingly. You’re also responding to my posts in which I was telling another poster to not take it personally when another poster says “fans are the worst sometimes”.

But I’m the one that’s outraged? That makes no sense.

 

[Them]

Let's stop the fan boy nonsense. This is the Dallas Cowboys. Some of you are just too young to know what that used to mean.

QB is the premier position in all of sports. The Dallas Cowboys are supposed to be the premier franchise in football. The fact that the Cowboys would now look for a new franchise QB and settle on a stiff like Dak Prescott should sicken anyone with an ounce of credibility as a fan. All I read over and over is what he can't do and how that's okay we can work around that. What the hell kind of plan is that for the Dallas Cowboys in search of their franchise QB? That's Cincinnati Bengals thinking. I don't want a guy who can't do things. I don't want to settle at the position. That shouldn't be plan A. I want a real talent who allows you to get by at other positions not other positions allowing them to get by at his own. I don't want a college offense. I want a real QB who can play real pro football.

We are already saddled with the worst Owner and GM in sports, a complete fraud at Director of Personnel and a weak Head Coach. The thought of being okay with adding a mediocre at best QB to that mix is baffling to me.

Why? Just cause Go Cowboys! and stuff?

You are supporting a QB who can't throw the football.

I repeat - You are supporting a QB who can't throw the football.

If for whatever reason Dak Prescott is on your roster and your starter goes down, then you look to get by and tailor a gimmick offense around him and his lack of any talent. Then it makes sense to read the things I read about him every day. Well, they just mean until our starter gets back. But to watch him play for three years and think this is the guy you want under center for the next 10 years as the future of our offense is an opinion I just can't take seriously.

A QB who can't throw the football.

The Dallas bleepin Cowboys.

Thank God Tom Landry isn't around to see this.

...jeese I couldn't even read all of that...but I do get that you don't care for Dak...so be it...but unless Dallas trades all of their picks for the # 1 spot in the draft...or... Dallas loses enough next season to get the #1 spot in the draft...then I guess you're gonna be in a lot of pain in the next few seasons.
Dak was a 4th round pick...I don't believe anyone saw what he would accomplish, and he's only 25 years old. He's won +_ 67% of his games.
I've been a fan of the Boys since high school...I've seen the Landry SBs..and the 90's JJ SBs, and having Dak as the QB doesn't bother me one iota.
and I'm a damn proud fan of the Dallas Cowboys....and no-one can ruin that ever!....p.s....maybe Dak will get injured and Mike White can be your knight in shining armor.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I've watched the agendas on here saying Dak sucks so bad he should have never been drafted. Then others say he is the best in stats or whatever.

As a fan I'd love him to be the absolute best but he isn't. But he is far from the worst. What he is, is a QB that hasn't figured it all out yet and may not ever do so or he may become a SB QB

The reality is that none of us really know. What we know is that as fans we want and need him to get better every year to get to where we all want to get. Nobody will win the discussion now because the future has yet to be written. Let's cross our fingers that he develops and takes us to the promise land while we treat each other with respect.

Some know better than others obviously. Dak is one of the best young QB's in the NFL without question. I haven't heard anyone say he is the best or that he has the best stats. Dak continues to prove his doubters wrong and its only going to get worse for the Petty Dak Trolls.