Dak from a clean pocket last night via PFF

[robbieruff]

I looked at the replays and I don't see Bryant "totally" quitting on the route (makes a hard cut at the 35 yd line), or "jogging" to catch Hall. From the six yard line to almost the thirty, Bryant is full on after Hall. He didn't immediately make the tackle but he wasn't "jogging" after Hall. Hall caught the ball like an outfielder catching a pop fly. Bryant simply couldn't find the ball and was run into by Jenkins right as Hall collected the INT. See what you want to see bud...but the fact remains Prescott threw into double coverage under duress. I simply don't see a man COMPLETELY quitting on a route NOR a man INEXCUSABLY JOGGING after Hall once he made the INT. Nope, don't see it. Prescott threw that ball straight down the right hash mark, where Hall, the safety was already well placed. He didn't even have to close on it to catch it...he was already in position on the right hash mark. He simply needed to reach up his hands and collect it. You can't make that throw.

Per Bob Sturm:

The second half was an offensive disaster. There is simply no other way to describe eight different possessions that resulted in just three first downs, one play in Giants territory, and zero points. It was absolutely the worst thing we have seen all year from this offense that has been among the best in the league all season. They actually crossed midfield for one play, then committed a holding penalty, and to try to get it all back, Dak Prescott made one of his rare poor decisions as he threw a prayer into coverage that was picked off on a deep ball on third and 15. If you are a young QB, you have to know that throwing a deep ball on third and 15 into a waiting safety is about the most rookie thing you can do.

And while poor decisions are rare, he had a few more. Including a screen pass that was ill-timed and he still tried to get the ball to Lance Dunbar which was almost picked off and returned for a touchdown. Having gotten away with that, he then tried a rollout where the Giants had all options shut down and he tried a very dangerous pass across the body to Jason Witten into traffic. These all suggest he was rattled and out of his normal form.

But, those were the decisions. Then there were the poor throws. Some were high and misses. Others were bounced and missed. There was a moment on his first throw after halftime where he threw a duck that landed beyond Witten and in front of Dez Bryant that seemed to betray his complete lack of confidence and command of his performance.

Third down performance has been particularly poor. The Giants had all sorts of ways to pressure Dak and also close off his familiar escape routes. He was reluctant to use his feet and the lanes were taken away with the arm. The Giants have a very nice defense and the corners were winning many battles.

OK - I'm back...apologies for the delayed response but with these more vigorously enforced Youtube rules, it has been difficult to find a good replay of the play we're debating to illustrate the point I've been making about Dez's poor route running (i.e., loafing) that was a key contributor to the Leon Hall pick...and that it was not solely on Dak making a "rookie mistake" as the Mr. Sturms of the world might contend. That POV is a gross simplification and shows zero perspective on the nuances of the play from start to finish.

For the record, I am not saying that the decision was the best thing for Dak to do in that situation - he forced it...BUT, what I have always maintained is that his throw was typical of what one often sees from QB's to their so-called ELITE targets...in other words, double teams be dammed...I am just going to let him go make a play for me. I've already referenced instances where this sort of thing is commonplace and as a knowledgeable fan of the game as it appears you are, you have to AT LEAST admit that that sort of thing occurs with some regularity...especially when that elite target is a big physical receiver in the Dez, Marshall, Megatron mold.

So...take a look at the replay of the play (not the live action as it shows a poor angle) that occurs just before the 1:28 mark (that's 1 hour and 28 minutes)...again, apologies for the poor vid quality as pickins were slim...



Right at about the 36 yard line, Dez saw that the corner (Jenkins) had outside leverage on him...likely Jenkins knew he has deep middle help from Hall. Dez takes a hard step to the outside at that point and then starts to push hard to the middle hashes, showing a deep post route, which I am pretty sure Dak was tracking based on his eyes in the pocket from other replays. Then...at about the 25, Dez breaks off the route into sort of a sideways/backpedalling veer to the outside again. This juncture of the play is what I was referring to as "jogging" - and not his pursuit of Hall or anything that happened thereafter...if a different word works better for you then swap that in to align with your own sensibilities; however, to me, by Dez standards, that's tantamount to jogging speed. So this shoddy route running inexplicably allowed Jenkins to beat him to the post and COMPLETELY crossed up his QB who is expecting Dez to continuing running hard to deep the post. If Dez continues along that path, we had a good shot as I've previously stated of outmanning the 5-11 Hall for a leaping catch OR the pass is broken up and we're pinning them back on the 4th down punt. OR, maybe we're fortunate to draw PI on the play.

Now YOU KNOW that route running has been a bone of contention for Dez - that's indisputable. Even earlier this year (forget the game), Garrett was shown exorting Dez from the sideline on a lazy route he ran along the sidelines. So...to this fan's view, this play was yet another example of Dez's lazy route running (i.e., not finishing out the pattern), which greatly contributed to the resulting negative play. If we runs hard there and doesn't start loafing at the 25 because he perhaps thinks the ball isn't coming his way, then we have a very different outcome IMO. As a world class receiver supposedly, his job is to FINISH routes as IF the ball is coming EVERY TIME! Not make in-the-moment decisions that cross up his QB and make him look bad. Dez needs to be better than that and not pick and choose when he runs hard and when he doesn't. Even great QBs need their playmakers to go make a play sometimes.

I've enjoyed our back and forth about this and look forward to future discussions BTW

 

[Kevinicus]

OK - I'm back...apologies for the delayed response but with these more vigorously enforced Youtube rules, it has been difficult to find a good replay of the play we're debating to illustrate the point I've been making about Dez's poor route running (i.e., loafing) that was a key contributor to the Leon Hall pick...and that it was not solely on Dak making a "rookie mistake" as the Mr. Sturms of the world might contend. That POV is a gross simplification and shows zero perspective on the nuances of the play from start to finish.

For the record, I am not saying that the decision was the best thing for Dak to do in that situation - he forced it...BUT, what I have always maintained is that his throw was typical of what one often sees from QB's to their so-called ELITE targets...in other words, double teams be dammed...I am just going to let him go make a play for me. I've already referenced instances where this sort of thing is commonplace and as a knowledgeable fan of the game as it appears you are, you have to AT LEAST admit that that sort of thing occurs with some regularity...especially when that elite target is a big physical receiver in the Dez, Marshall, Megatron mold.

So...take a look at the replay of the play (not the live action as it shows a poor angle) that occurs just before the 1:28 mark (that's 1 hour and 28 minutes)...again, apologies for the poor vid quality as pickins were slim...



Right at about the 36 yard line, Dez saw that the corner (Jenkins) had outside leverage on him...likely Jenkins knew he has deep middle help from Hall. Dez takes a hard step to the outside at that point and then starts to push hard to the middle hashes, showing a deep post route, which I am pretty sure Dak was tracking based on his eyes in the pocket from other replays. Then...at about the 25, Dez breaks off the route into sort of a sideways/backpedalling veer to the outside again. This juncture of the play is what I was referring to as "jogging" - and not his pursuit of Hall or anything that happened thereafter...if a different word works better for you then swap that in to align with your own sensibilities; however, to me, by Dez standards, that's tantamount to jogging speed. So this shoddy route running inexplicably allowed Jenkins to beat him to the post and COMPLETELY crossed up his QB who is expecting Dez to continuing running hard to deep the post. If Dez continues along that path, we had a good shot as I've previously stated of outmanning the 5-11 Hall for a leaping catch OR the pass is broken up and we're pinning them back on the 4th down punt. OR, maybe we're fortunate to draw PI on the play.

Now YOU KNOW that route running has been a bone of contention for Dez - that's indisputable. Even earlier this year (forget the game), Garrett was shown exorting Dez from the sideline on a lazy route he ran along the sidelines. So...to this fan's view, this play was yet another example of Dez's lazy route running (i.e., not finishing out the pattern), which greatly contributed to the resulting negative play. If we runs hard there and doesn't start loafing at the 25 because he perhaps thinks the ball isn't coming his way, then we have a very different outcome IMO. As a world class receiver supposedly, his job is to FINISH routes as IF the ball is coming EVERY TIME! Not make in-the-moment decisions that cross up his QB and make him look bad. Dez needs to be better than that and not pick and choose when he runs hard and when he doesn't. Even great QBs need their playmakers to go make a play sometimes.

I've enjoyed our back and forth about this and look forward to future discussions BTW

I see no loafing. I see a cut back away from the safety.

 

[robbieruff]

I see no loafing. I see a cut back away from the safety.

And I see another blatant example of Dez not finishing a route when he started to run hard to the post...which is not an unfamiliar theme this year nor the past couple for that matter...and I am a HUGE Dez fan...

 

[robbieruff]

I see no loafing. I see a cut back away from the safety.

And Ryan Clark thinks so, too..."He doesn't finish"...starting 5:45 mark of the video...a direct reference to the play we're discussing.

 

[Kevinicus]

And I see another blatant example of Dez not finishing a route when he started to run hard to the post...which is not an unfamiliar theme this year nor the past couple for that matter...and I am a HUGE Dez fan...

Do we know it's a post route?

Either way, it's still not "loafing."

 

[robbieruff]

Do we know it's a post route?

Either way, it's still not "loafing."

Look at the Ryan Matthews comments in the video link...