Dak gets another Top 5 ranking

[Ranched]

Dak was ripping it in all of the games he actually played in last year.

Nice post. Mahomes wouldn't have a ring w/out a fantastic coaching staff that gives him that outstanding O-line. We all know what he looks like when a few starters are missing.

This will be cry baby Wodgers 16th season & only one ring to show for it. Brady should be #1 because he is just that, #1.

I'm happy where Dak is. Very talented young quarterback. He's broken many records in his short playing time. Dallas was fortunate to get him.

Watson? I'd take Josh Allen & or Russell Wilson over him.

 

[blueblood70]

We still harkening back to 2016 to defend Dak? lol

Dak's career is on a similar trajectory as Cousins........ lots of yards and few playoff wins. Dak's got 1 30 TD season. Your projection that Dak was going to continue his 2020 pace over a whole season against good defenses is laughable. He piled up those stats against prevent/milk the clock defenses b/c we were losing. Dak was 1-3 in 2020.

beyond laughable its insane he and Rockport do this constantly, thats not the reality's of LAW OF AVERAGES, Dak would not have come close to that see 2019 fast start 5-3 great number finished 3-5 and couldn't buy TDs and wins..they folded lie cheap tent..

i can see Dak 5-10 on anyone's list its all debatable but this list missing RW is insane alreasdy..RW is better then most of them and could be THREE(3) easily in most debates..

 

[LACowboysFan1]

mean, the numbers 100% say Kirk is better,

100%?

No. Winning percentage - Dak 60%, Cousins 50%.
TD to INT ratio? Dak 2.65, Cousins 2.26.
INT percentage? Dak 1.7, Cousins 2.3.
Cousins has 9 years in the league, with the 50% win ratio. After 9 years he's probably as good as he's going to get. Dak has 4 1/3, approximately, probably will get better as a quarterback, especially with Garrett gone, but even if not, he'll likely carry that 60% win rate for his career.

Of course Cousins has other numbers that are better than Dak. Not saying Dak's numbers I quoted are more meaningful than Cousins'.

But there not "100%" better in any way, shape or form...

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

There is a stat ESPN came up with called total quarterback rating, or QBR. This stat specifically quantifies how a player does on third and fourth downs; in the third or fourth quarter, and particularly evens out what players do while they’re within 1 score vs putting up “garbage time stats”.

Despite putting up at least somewhat similar stats over Dak’s career, Dak has 4 of his 5 QBR years over 70. That’s a very good score, as he is a very good quarterback.

Kirk, on the other hand, has put up a 56 in his last year in Washington, a 59, a 60, and a 63 in his 3 Minny years. The things people say about Dak garbage time stat padding is twofold on Cousins.

He is playing with a deficit (despite often having better defenses than Dak, particularly in Minnesota), and trying to claw his team back from a hole they often ultimately lose, as shown by the fact he now has 4 losing seasons in his 8 years starting multiple games. Whether or not you consider Dak a winner, Kirk is something less than what Prescott is labeled, and the stats show that.

QBR, PFF, etc are flawed analysis, but they’re handy for specific interactions like this

The 4th quarter is VERY overweighed in QBR and everyone knows it. That's always been the criticism with it. You can play terrible for 3 quarters, but put up a bunch of empty garbage time stats and get a better QB then the QB that actually won the game.

You don't see me bringing up that Cousins has a better career passer rating then Dak (he does), because again, it's too flawed.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

The 4th quarter is VERY overweighed in QBR and everyone knows it.

No. Per Wiki:

There are six steps to building QBR:[4]

• Each QB "action play" (passes, rushes, sacks, scrambles, or penalties attributable to the QB) is measured in terms of the expected points added (EPA)
• Adjust for the difficulty of each play. EPA is adjusted based on the type and depth of a pass, and whether the QB was pressured.
• If there is a completion, he only is credited for the typical number of yards after the catch (passer rating takes all yards into effect) based on the type and depth of the pass
• There is a discount on garbage time, or a time where the score is out of reach near the end of the game.
• Opponent adjustment: More credit is given with tougher defenses and vice versa.
• QBR averages the adjusted EPA per play and transforms it to a 0 to 100 scale, with 50 being average.

It is NOT "overweighted" in the 4th quarter, see the above...

 

[blueblood70]

He's only passed for 30 TDs twice. He's played in 5 or more games in 7 different seasons. Not sure what makes you think he's consistently a 30 TD guy.

Also, Kirk has never lead his team to 13-3. And he's never passed for 4 interceptions in a year. Kirk's best 2 years were 2015 and 2019. Dak pwns him with 2016, and 2020 where he was gonna surpass 6000 yards and 40 TDs had he played the whole year!! Kirk never had stats that pop off the page like that.

stop with this nonsense trying to stretch out 4.5 games of stats to 16 is ridiculous..

thats not the reality's of LAW OF AVERAGES, Dak would not have come close to that see 2019 fast start 5-3 great number finished 3-5 and couldn't buy TDs and wins..they folded like a cheap tent..

i can see Dak 5-10 on anyone's list its all debatable but this list missing RW is insane alreasdy..RW is better then most of them and could be THREE(3) easily in most debates..

no one is dissing Dak saying hes possibly 5 but also could be 6 as the logjam of qbs from 5-10 maybe even to 12 of pretty much very close ranked talent levels so fans naturally choose their guy at 5-6 but in reality's they could easily be 10-12

its like an Olympic sprint where all 8 lanes finished close one clear winner and 2nd place but go to the tape tape for the others as they all finished within .00008 milisec of each other..that debating whos better from 5-12 lots of qbs there to choose from..not a lot of separation IMHO

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

how has kirk cousin been more productive? he has played more years and has done less all around....Dak has 4 more years to catch up with Cousin, so perhaps we should compare kirk's first 4 years against Dak's. wouldn't that be a more fair comparison. wait...cousin was a back up on his team. couldn't get on the field unless injury happened to starter. he couldn't beat out the great Robert Griffin...

btw, Cousins first 4900 season came in his 5th year in the league....

lets see how Dak does over the next 4 years and then we can compare notes....

He has not done less. They both have 1 playoff win. They both have 2 Pro Bowl appearances. The only thing Dak has done that Cousins has not is miss a season due to injury.

Did you really just say that cousins couldn't get on the field without an injury to the starter? No, you did not just say that lol seeing as how Dak would have never seen the field without an injury to not just the starter, but also the back up!

He has played more years, but he has only been a full time starting QB for 1 more year then Dak.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

The 4th quarter is VERY overweighed in QBR and everyone knows it. That's always been the criticism with it. You can play terrible for 3 quarters, but put up a bunch of empty garbage time stats and get a better QB then the QB that actually won the game.

You don't see me bringing up that Cousins has a better career passer rating then Dak (he does), because again, it's too flawed.

You can’t proclaim QBR is not a useful stat by comparing it to a far worse stat. That’s hyperbole.

And 4th quarter does matter, a tremendous amount. A TD in the 2nd quarter is worth equal to that in the 4th, true, but it represents a moment in the game where the QB has an understanding in the stakes, what it will specifically take to win. That is when QBs are differentiated.

Despite playing fewer 4ths than any other quarter due to injuries that occur throughout a game, he has by far thrown the most interceptions in that quarter. He not only has the lowest completion % of any quarter, He has the fewest yards per attempt. In the eleventh hour, Kirk Cousins becomes a lesser quarterback. This matters, QBR reflects that.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

No. Per Wiki:

There are six steps to building QBR:[4]

• Each QB "action play" (passes, rushes, sacks, scrambles, or penalties attributable to the QB) is measured in terms of the expected points added (EPA)
• Adjust for the difficulty of each play. EPA is adjusted based on the type and depth of a pass, and whether the QB was pressured.
• If there is a completion, he only is credited for the typical number of yards after the catch (passer rating takes all yards into effect) based on the type and depth of the pass
• There is a discount on garbage time, or a time where the score is out of reach near the end of the game.
• Opponent adjustment: More credit is given with tougher defenses and vice versa.
• QBR averages the adjusted EPA per play and transforms it to a 0 to 100 scale, with 50 being average.

It is NOT "overweighted" in the 4th quarter, see the above...

It's always been the problem with QBR. A QB that wins the game through great play in the first 3 quarters somehow finishes behind the losing QB that tries to make a comeback in the 4th because that QB played better in the 4th then the 1st three quarters.

As I said, It's just a stat that Dak has Cousins beat in, just like Cousins has Dak beat in passer rating.

This all weirdly proves my point though. If you have to pick and chose things that Dak is better in doesn't that prove that Dak is not clear cut, head and shoulders better than Cousins as most here would like to think?

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

It's always been the problem with QBR. A QB that wins the game through great play in the first 3 quarters somehow finishes behind the losing QB that tries to make a comeback in the 4th because that QB played better in the 4th then the 1st three quarters.

As I said, It's just a stat that Dak has Cousins beat in, just like Cousins has Dak beat in passer rating.

This all weirdly proves my point though. If you have to pick and chose things that Dak is better in doesn't that prove that Dak is not clear cut, head and shoulders better than Cousins as most here would like to think?

Passer rating is not nearly as valuable as QBR, they’re not 1 for 1. That’s like saying Dak averages more wins per 16 starts, but cousins has more second quarter fumble recoveries so they cancel each other out.

passer rating is a terribly ignorant stat

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

You can’t proclaim QBR is not a useful stat by comparing it to a far worse stat. That’s hyperbole.

And 4th quarter does matter, a tremendous amount. A TD in the 2nd quarter is worth equal to that in the 4th, true, but it represents a moment in the game where the QB has an understanding in the stakes, what it will specifically take to win. That is when QBs are differentiated.

Despite playing fewer 4ths than any other quarter due to injuries that occur throughout a game, he has by far thrown the most interceptions in that quarter. He not only has the lowest completion % of any quarter, He has the fewest yards per attempt. In the eleventh hour, Kirk Cousins becomes a lesser quarterback. This matters, QBR reflects that.

I didn't compare it. In fact, I pointed out how I didn't use passer rating as an argument because, like QBR, it is flawed.

All these formulas that each of these companies like to put out are flawed in their own ways. One puts too much emphasis in this stats, while another puts too much into this stats. Then people can pick and chose which formula you want to go with that day, which usually is the one that makes your QB look better in an argument.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

Passer rating is not nearly as valuable as QBR, they’re not 1 for 1. That’s like saying Dak averages more wins per 16 starts, but cousins has more second quarter fumble recoveries so they cancel each other out.

passer rating is a terribly ignorant stat

Why do I feel like if Dak was ahead of Cousins in passer rating you wouldn't be saying that?

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

beyond laughable its insane he and Rockport do this constantly, thats not the reality's of LAW OF AVERAGES, Dak would not have come close to that see 2019 fast start 5-3 great number finished 3-5 and couldn't buy TDs and wins..they folded lie cheap tent..

i can see Dak 5-10 on anyone's list its all debatable but this list missing RW is insane alreasdy..RW is better then most of them and could be THREE(3) easily in most debates..

Russell Wilson had the most passing TDs ever through 3 games last year.

He finished 15 TDs short of the record and tied for 2nd in the league.

Why people really think Dak was going to keep that pace is insane to me. All I know is this, they sure are setting the bar high for him this season.

 

[blueblood70]

100%?

No. Winning percentage - Dak 60%, Cousins 50%.
TD to INT ratio? Dak 2.65, Cousins 2.26.
INT percentage? Dak 1.7, Cousins 2.3.
Cousins has 9 years in the league, with the 50% win ratio. After 9 years he's probably as good as he's going to get. Dak has 4 1/3, approximately, probably will get better as a quarterback, especially with Garrett gone, but even if not, he'll likely carry that 60% win rate for his career.

Of course Cousins has other numbers that are better than Dak. Not saying Dak's numbers I quoted are more meaningful than Cousins'.

But there not "100%" better in any way, shape or form...

ill give you that thats why im saying all within this thread sure dak can be 5th but he also could easily be 10th..its logjam of similarly talented QBs from 5-12 and from whatever fan perspective there are is how they would be ranked..

yet this top five is very suspect..No RW and for sure Allen is in the conversations so sure with Rivers and brees gone and big ben on his way out naturally all of sudden he top 5 changes doesnt make these guys better then they used to be makes them pulled up the list by default )

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Why do I feel like if Dak was ahead of Cousins in passer rating you wouldn't be saying that?

Id always be saying that. Steve Young is my favorite QB of all time, and for a while he was the all time leader in passer rating... and it’s still an ignorant stat. So much it doesn’t take into account (or care to).

Tony Romo has a better passer rating than Peyton simply because Peyton threw a lot of picks when having to carry his team. QBR is fairly consistent with how people value these QB’s careers, which comes out to a dramatically different result to passer rating. It’s a way better system because it already has a proven track record

 

[blueblood70]

Russell Wilson had the most passing TDs ever through 3 games last year.

He finished 15 TDs short of the record and tied for 2nd in the league.

Why people really think Dak was going to keep that pace is insane to me. All I know is this, they sure are setting the bar high for him this season.

its sports idiocism. yes made word up because it fits LOL

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

its sports idiocism. yes made word up because it fits LOL

They better keep that same energy when the season starts.

I am fully ready to eat crow. In fact, I HOPE I do, because if I eat crow that means my team is winning and Dak is playing well. That means I am happy as can be.

I highly doubt the 6,000 yard, 50 TD club is willing to eat any crow. It'll just be more excuses.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Tannehill should be #1.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

He has not done less. They both have 1 playoff win. They both have 2 Pro Bowl appearances. The only thing Dak has done that Cousins has not is miss a season due to injury.

Did you really just say that cousins couldn't get on the field without an injury to the starter? No, you did not just say that lol seeing as how Dak would have never seen the field without an injury to not just the starter, but also the back up!

He has played more years, but he has only been a full time starting QB for 1 more year then Dak.

well, cousins went back to the bench after starter came back!! remember....he couldn't keep the job.... Dak got on the field, never left...see the difference?

he has played more years, thus accumulated more stats....give Dak 4 years, then lets compare....

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

These days it's really hard to find anyone who don't rank him from #5-7. Sure we weren't winning, but Quarterbacks have struggled even under good conditions - and with good receivers. (like Kirk Cousins has a really good supporting cast, but he's still middle of the pack)

Dak was ripping it in all of the games he actually played in last year. The only one he looked merely decent was against the #1 defense.... the Rams. I can totally see why he's Top 5. Everyone else but the Top 6 has looked horrible at times last year.


https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2021/6/1/22445936/nfl-quarterbacks-ranked-2021-qb-rankings-starters


No. 5: Dak Prescott — Cowboys
It’s so weird to think of a Dallas Cowboys quarterback flying under the radar, but it feels like Prescott is the best quarterback people don’t really talk about when it comes to the NFL’s best passers. This is probably due (in part) to a year of Cowboys fans saying Dak wasn’t that good because he didn’t sign a low-ball offer, now needing to pivot into championing him again.

No. 4: Deshaun Watson — Texans
Honestly, I don’t know what Watson’s situation will be in 2021. There’s a pending league investigation into allegations of sexual assault, and that could mean he’s suspended for a significant amount of time. However, if we look purely at on-field play he remains one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL, even on the league’s most dysfunctional roster.

No. 3: Tom Brady — Bucs
Brady is past the point where he’ll be a stat-stuffing God, but until someone else proves it he’s still the best pure winner at the position in football. With the support around him in Tampa Bay, there’s nothing preventing him from having another great season, perhaps even taking the Buccaneers back to the Super Bowl.

No. 2: Patrick Mahomes — Chiefs
It’s Pat Mahomes. Nuff said, really. Seriously though, crushing Super Bowl loss aside, the Chiefs have made moves to get Mahomes more protection, which feels like the only thing holding him back from throwing for 5,000 yards a season like it’s nothing.

No. 1: Aaron Rodgers — Packers
Rodgers is the reigning MVP, sure — but this is also a product of him doing so much with such little support. For Rodgers to actually be the top quarterback again in 2021 could depend on where he plays, but I have a feeling enough will be done to keep him in Green Bay and get him some help.

But I heard he was trash and a bus driver. I heard it here on this site. *faints*