Dak is finally playing like an elite QB

[KingCorcoran]

Dak over the last four games combined.

#1 in TD's

#1 in yardage

#1 in yards per attempt

#1 in passer rating

Timing is everything going into negotiations on a contract extension. When Lamb signs it will be for more than any other WR ever, setting the bar at a new high mark for star receivers. And Prescott’s representation certainly can argue for, at least, Herbert money.

 

[DallasInDC]

Dak over the last four games combined.

#1 in TD's

#1 in yardage

#1 in yards per attempt

#1 in passer rating

For this season (at the halfway point), when compared to the consensus top 6 elite QBs - Mahommes, Allen, Burrows, Hurts, Herbert, and Lawerence) ranking the stats against these 6, Dak is:

#2 in completion % - 70.7%
#3 in yds or yds/game - 2,423 or 269
#1 in yds/att and yds/cmp - 8.1 and 11.4
#2 (Tied) TDs - 17
#2(tied) Int - 6
#2 Td:Int ratio - 2.8:1
#2 QBR - 72.6
#1 QB rating - 105.1

Note: when looking at all these stats only Josh Allen has more #1 rankings with 3 Herbert is tied with 2; Dak leads #2 rankings with 5..next closes is 2 for Josh allen; and combined with #1-# 3 rankings at 8, next closes is Josh Allen with 6. And if you want to throw in winning %, only Hurts and Mahommes has a better winning % (Hurts +2 and head to head and Mahommes +1)

So after 9 games, Dak has performed better than what has been consistently considered the elite QBs in this league.

You may disagree that he is elite, but for all the haters that says he is trash, his results and his stats this year (as most years) say otherwise.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

To me it's not just a case of "finally". He's been just as good as this for the majority of his career, especially past the halfway point of 2018. It's just that the national media, narratives, and even threads on this forum would make you believe otherwise.

No, Dak is not on a level with the so-called "elite" passers since he (or more accurately the Cowboys) have not won consistently in the postseason. But if you want to judge him solely off his "bad" games you will see that he has just as many of those as all the QB's we hear are better than him. Nobody is going to piece together 16 or 17 perfect games. No-body.

 

[BigD5]

These last four games have been the best Dak has ever played in my opinion. Something changed in this man and after the Giants game I knew this was a different man. For years, something didn’t feel right about how he played. He wasn’t horrible, but it felt like there was a barrier that he couldn’t overcome to lead us to greatness. If Dak can sustain this level of play through the playoffs, sign this man to a contract extension immediately!! The man is finally doing what I wanted a Cowboys qb to do!

Signed, a “Dak hater”

Rat poison!

 

[KingCorcoran]

To me it's not just a case of "finally". He's been just as good as this for the majority of his career, especially past the halfway point of 2018. It's just that the national media, narratives, and even threads on this forum would make you believe otherwise.

No, Dak is not on a level with the so-called "elite" passers since he (or more accurately the Cowboys) have not won consistently in the postseason. But if you want to judge him solely off his "bad" games you will see that he has just as many of those as all the QB's we hear are better than him. Nobody is going to piece together 16 or 17 perfect games. No-body.

I understand disappointment over losses, particularly in playoff games, but he is on a level with the so-called elite quarterbacks in he NFL. And not because of yesterday or the last several games. He consistently delivers a quality performance. He quarterbacks the Cowboys to a lot of wins. Guys like Prescott and Hurts will bust their butts for the team they play for and neither will ever win an MVP. What they lack in the panache that excites the national media they make up for with high regard from their teammates and opponents. Guys like Purdy, Lawrence, Herbert, Burrow, Allen are darlings of the media. Obviously playoffs wins are not the difference.

 

[Swagger]

For this season (at the halfway point), when compared to the consensus top 6 elite QBs - Mahommes, Allen, Burrows, Hurts, Herbert, and Lawerence) ranking the stats against these 6, Dak is:

#2 in completion % - 70.7%
#3 in yds or yds/game - 2,423 or 269
#1 in yds/att and yds/cmp - 8.1 and 11.4
#2 (Tied) TDs - 17
#2(tied) Int - 6
#2 Td:Int ratio - 2.8:1
#2 QBR - 72.6
#1 QB rating - 105.1

Note: when looking at all these stats only Josh Allen has more #1 rankings with 3 Herbert is tied with 2; Dak leads #2 rankings with 5..next closes is 2 for Josh allen; and combined with #1-# 3 rankings at 8, next closes is Josh Allen with 6. And if you want to throw in winning %, only Hurts and Mahommes has a better winning % (Hurts +2 and head to head and Mahommes +1)

So after 9 games, Dak has performed better than what has been consistently considered the elite QBs in this league.

You may disagree that he is elite, but for all the haters that says he is trash, his results and his stats this year (as most years) say otherwise.

The problem in comparing quarterbacks is how many of those quarterbacks have the strength of this Cowboys roster? I would argue zero.

This roster is loaded and it has been for the previous two seasons. Every roster is going to have a few issues but on the whole this roster should have already reached a Superbowl.

People criticise a quarterback like Justin Herbert yet do not factor in that he plays for the Chargers with a dreadful offensive line, awful Head Coach and the Chargers don't have four gimme joke games against the Giants and Washington.

Herbert scored 4 touchdowns and put up 38 points on the Lions with an injured hand - the Lions have a 7-2 yet the Chargers lost the game as the defense gave up 41 points.

With the Cowboys going 5-1 with a practice squad QB like Cooper Rush over the previous two seasons that clearly shows this roster is loaded.

Prescott hasn't suddenly changed approaching his 10th year in the league. The tape is out there on him.

It's simply a case of the Cowboys having a far stronger opposition that its opposition and Prescott has used legs a bit more. The result is wide open receivers for easy pickings.

How did he play when the team didn't outplay the 49ers or Cardinals and even when he helped put the Cowboys in position to beat the Eagles, when given the opportunity to do so he failed to execute (again).

I agree Prescott will get an extension and that will be the end of the franchise for another 4-5 years. It's such a shame for the objective neutral fan as it's so painful watching a loaded team already fail twice and the reality is Prescott is unable to play his part to beat a good team away especially in the play offs.

Cowboys have to win the division to have any chance in the play offs.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Can we play the Giants every week? 2023 final score : 79-17……. And 10’of those points were pure charity.

 

[OGSixshooter]

These last four games have been the best Dak has ever played in my opinion. Something changed in this man and after the Giants game I knew this was a different man. For years, something didn’t feel right about how he played. He wasn’t horrible, but it felt like there was a barrier that he couldn’t overcome to lead us to greatness. If Dak can sustain this level of play through the playoffs, sign this man to a contract extension immediately!! The man is finally doing what I wanted a Cowboys qb to do!

Signed, a “Dak hater”

The barrier you refer to is in his head. He’s a 4th round pick who wants to be the NFL version of Tim Tebow. He has to give up running like Tebow and live from the pocket.

To me this is like Luke saying, “So I am a Jedi…” and Yoda laughing. “Vader…you must face Vader.” Dak has to beat SF and win an NFC championship game to GET INTO the elite conversation. Elite is not top 5, it’s top 3…the top 10% of his peers. To ME, there can only be 3 elite QBs for the word to make any sense. Mahomes, Burrow and Stroud have that locked up now….especially since Stroud is making Noah Brown and Schultz look BETTER than Dak ever did with them.

 

[b0xZZ]

Dak will lay an egg against premier competition he ALWAYS does. I don’t care how he looks beating up on teams that have quit.

 

[zeke21]

The problem in comparing quarterbacks is how many of those quarterbacks have the strength of this Cowboys roster? I would argue zero.

This roster is loaded and it has been for the previous two seasons. Every roster is going to have a few issues but on the whole this roster should have already reached a Superbowl.

People criticise a quarterback like Justin Herbert yet do not factor in that he plays for the Chargers with a dreadful offensive line, awful Head Coach and the Chargers don't have four gimme joke games against the Giants and Washington.

Herbert scored 4 touchdowns and put up 38 points on the Lions with an injured hand - the Lions have a 7-2 yet the Chargers lost the game as the defense gave up 41 points.

With the Cowboys going 5-1 with a practice squad QB like Cooper Rush over the previous two seasons that clearly shows this roster is loaded.

Prescott hasn't suddenly changed approaching his 10th year in the league. The tape is out there on him.

It's simply a case of the Cowboys having a far stronger opposition that its opposition and Prescott has used legs a bit more. The result is wide open receivers for easy pickings.

How did he play when the team didn't outplay the 49ers or Cardinals and even when he helped put the Cowboys in position to beat the Eagles, when given the opportunity to do so he failed to execute (again).

I agree Prescott will get an extension and that will be the end of the franchise for another 4-5 years. It's such a shame for the objective neutral fan as it's so painful watching a loaded team already fail twice and the reality is Prescott is unable to play his part to beat a good team away especially in the play offs.

Cowboys have to win the division to have any chance in the play offs.

This, this and 100% this. We post these stats and point to Dak being 'elite' without the context. I've been saying this since 2016.. when else has a rookie walked into to a SB contending offence and been given the keys?!! It doesn't happen that often.

Yep Dak has looked much better against some weak opposition. I've seen him beat up on the NFCE for a long time.. and his stats look really pretty. Then we hit an actual opponent and we see the same stuff year in and year out.. sloppy footwork, bad decisions, interceptions and ultimately losses.

Our offence was just too good for the Giants.. Cooper Rush could have won that game.. heck I think just about any QB in the league could have won that game yesterday. And it wasn't just offence.. when your defence keeps a team to under 10 points then it makes things really simple. Good starting field positions.. good special teams. So right now this roster is built for success. Dak has weapons like CeeDee, Cook, Gallop at WR.. a really strong TE room. Two legit RBs who are capable of both tough yards and explosive plays and a very very solid OLine (Smith, Smith, Frederick is a great starting point).

Yet again we gloss over the fact that the Giants defence still slowed Dak down when they played zone and we still struggled with designed red zone plays. So winning and winning well should be the expectation.. I want to see this team finally pull it together at the right time in the season and win something of note. Tired of being November and December clubhouse champions and it amounting to nothing again and again.

 

[DallasInDC]

The problem in comparing quarterbacks is how many of those quarterbacks have the strength of this Cowboys roster? I would argue zero.

This roster is loaded and it has been for the previous two seasons. Every roster is going to have a few issues but on the whole this roster should have already reached a Superbowl.

People criticise a quarterback like Justin Herbert yet do not factor in that he plays for the Chargers with a dreadful offensive line, awful Head Coach and the Chargers don't have four gimme joke games against the Giants and Washington.

Herbert scored 4 touchdowns and put up 38 points on the Lions with an injured hand - the Lions have a 7-2 yet the Chargers lost the game as the defense gave up 41 points.

With the Cowboys going 5-1 with a practice squad QB like Cooper Rush over the previous two seasons that clearly shows this roster is loaded.

Prescott hasn't suddenly changed approaching his 10th year in the league. The tape is out there on him.

It's simply a case of the Cowboys having a far stronger opposition that its opposition and Prescott has used legs a bit more. The result is wide open receivers for easy pickings.

How did he play when the team didn't outplay the 49ers or Cardinals and even when he helped put the Cowboys in position to beat the Eagles, when given the opportunity to do so he failed to execute (again).

I agree Prescott will get an extension and that will be the end of the franchise for another 4-5 years. It's such a shame for the objective neutral fan as it's so painful watching a loaded team already fail twice and the reality is Prescott is unable to play his part to beat a good team away especially in the play offs.

Cowboys have to win the division to have any chance in the play offs.

It's hilarious that when other QBs are discussed as being elite NO ONE offers up qualifiers....but when discussing the QB of the team they support, there is ALWAYS a qualifier...and the goalposts always moves as arguments are discredited.

 

[Havic]

Gonna pump the brakes here but will admit its a good stretch of football for him.

 

[Blast From The Past]

These last four games have been the best Dak has ever played in my opinion. Something changed in this man and after the Giants game I knew this was a different man. For years, something didn’t feel right about how he played. He wasn’t horrible, but it felt like there was a barrier that he couldn’t overcome to lead us to greatness. If Dak can sustain this level of play through the playoffs, sign this man to a contract extension immediately!! The man is finally doing what I wanted a Cowboys qb to do!

Signed, a “Dak hater”

If it carries over to the better competition then I will flip flop about Dak until then he is a middling starter. I support Dak as our qb but we gotta get over the hump dudes. Lead the way Dakota.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Dak supporter here...

What is the next team we have with a decent secondary they runs heavy zone?

During this last 4 game stretch....how strong are the zone defenses we faced?

I ask because...the top critique from Dak critics is his ability to read zone. Last night, Giants went zone after halftime and Dak immediately threw and INT. Thats a win for the Dak critics that proclaim his issue is reading zone quick enough. Im not a film watcher or x and o's guy....but the majority or Daks INT's seem to be dumb throws into zone to the TE. Thats on Dak for sure...but I think thats uncreative play calling to beat zone. We are too predictable...and I guess that falls on Dak for taking the easy pass that defenses are sitting on and setting him up for.

Cooper Rush threw an INT against the same zone defense. That tells me it is a coaching problem for both QBs.

 

[plasticman]

As for whether or not Dak is "elite", it might help if everybody is on the same page as far as what that actually means:

ELITE: a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society:

So what does that mean in terms of NFL quarterbacks? I realize it is arbitrary but there are 32 starting QB's in the NFL and 32 backups. If half the teams were developing a quarterback then that is another 16 for a total of 80 quarterbacks in a season.

If we say that 10% of the quarterbacks are elite then we are talking about 8 of them. If it's 5% then we are talking about 4 quarterbacks. I am going to compromise and say that 6 QB's playing in the NFL are elite.

Well, if I start off with a combination of passer ratings and winning percentage, then it' going to look like I set the whole thing up in favor of Dak.

That's because Dak is 6th among all active quarterbacks in passer rating. He's also 6th in winning percentage.

Of course, playoff record is also high consideration. But this also presents some problems.

First of all, what is a better playoff record 2-2 or 2-4? The percentage is better with 2-2 but 2-4 implies that the QB was able to lead his team to a couple additional playoffs.

If I look at the playoffs winning percentage then my "elite" QB's include Jimmy Garoppolo and Russell Wilson. If I look at QB playoffs passer ratings it looks believable for the most part, although it seems a little dated when it includes Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson. Some benefited more than others because the team's defense was elite. Any statistical method used is going to devalue Lamar Jackson's unique set of skills.

In the end, the whole question of "elite" status comes down to individual perception, there really isn't a comprehensive formula to determine this. Even if there was, the variables used would be too numerous. The question itself will never provide an answer, only endless, pointless debate.

 

[Zman5]

For the last two weeks anyway . Inconsistancy has been his problem for the last six years . I have never seen a QB go from the very top one week to rock bottom the next week like Dak does . One extreme to the other with no in between .

You need to watch other teams play because this happens to many QBs. Josh Allen does this all the time. Same with Herbert. Go look at how Purdy is doing this year. He went from being the next Montana for several weeks to Mr. Irrelevant to playing well this past week.

 

[doomsday808]

This has to be Dak's year! There cannot be another collapse. Get the monkey of our backs and take us to the super bowl! At least the conference championship.

 

[cowboyed]

Elite quarterbacks also have outstanding players not only on offense but also defense and special teams. The coaching staff on these teams usually has a high football IQ along with the GM. However, there is plenty of evidence in past seasons and the current one how teams with elite quarterbacks start losing when key supporting players succumb to injury or are less talented than those on opposing teams.
I do think elite quarterbacks are able to carry the offense more when things go south and over a longer stretch of games but there is a tipping point for all starting quarterbacks. Dak is a very good quarterback and hope he can keep this playing level up.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Dak’s had stretches where he’s played elite before.

Let’s not forget he had a couple of horrid passes yesterday that should have been picks.

 

[zeke21]

As for whether or not Dak is "elite", it might help if everybody is on the same page as far as what that actually means:

ELITE: a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society:

So what does that mean in terms of NFL quarterbacks? I realize it is arbitrary but there are 32 starting QB's in the NFL and 32 backups. If half the teams were developing a quarterback then that is another 16 for a total of 80 quarterbacks in a season.

If we say that 10% of the quarterbacks are elite then we are talking about 8 of them. If it's 5% then we are talking about 4 quarterbacks. I am going to compromise and say that 6 QB's playing in the NFL are elite.

Well, if I start off with a combination of passer ratings and winning percentage, then it' going to look like I set the whole thing up in favor of Dak.

That's because Dak is 6th among all active quarterbacks in passer rating. He's also 6th in winning percentage.

Of course, playoff record is also high consideration. But this also presents some problems.

First of all, what is a better playoff record 2-2 or 2-4? The percentage is better with 2-2 but 2-4 implies that the QB was able to lead his team to a couple additional playoffs.

If I look at the playoffs winning percentage then my "elite" QB's include Jimmy Garoppolo and Russell Wilson. If I look at QB playoffs passer ratings it looks believable for the most part, although it seems a little dated when it includes Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson. Some benefited more than others because the team's defense was elite. Any statistical method used is going to devalue Lamar Jackson's unique set of skills.

In the end, the whole question of "elite" status comes down to individual perception, there really isn't a comprehensive formula to determine this. Even if there was, the variables used would be too numerous. The question itself will never provide an answer, only endless, pointless debate.

everyone has different ideas for sure. Not convinced there is only one way to measure but I agree that Elite needs to be in comparison to the compared objects. If you consider NFL QBs in terms of all QBs who have ever played then any guy that is on an NFL roster could be considered above average to elite. So I think you have to compare like to like.

I've always been comfortable with looking at the current NFL QBs and picking which 5 are my 'first choice' in a pick up game at any given point. I think adjust for past success, injury and/or current form. I think you could make an argument for top 6 as you have done. I like to think who would you want under centre if they had the same offence and had to play a drive to safe your life. Who are you going to pick to be under centre?

So for me, I would rank QBs as - Mahomes (not in a purple patch but clearly best QB in the league/runs on the board), Allen (if they could build a roster around him that would be good, again the runs are on the board), Hurts (whether we like to admit it or not.. the dude can legit play), Tua (if you haven't watch a miami game.. then do so), Stroud (kid is a legit gun, going to be all time legend imho), Jackson (putting together a nice string of games) and then I do think on form Dak comes in around here on current hot streak.

However, you could then argue that Burrow, Herbert and Lawrence would all do as well, if not better if they were playing with our roster. So if you are considering elite QBs then I would pick them first. So Dak then slips to about 10th.

You then wonder if Rodgers has another year left in him (aka the Brady affect) in which case, with the right tools he is clearly elite but I think time has passed. Wilson has clearly lost a step.

So they are the same arguments as always but I don't think Dak is elite. I think he is in an elite squad, surrounded by elite skill position players and several elite o linemen. I think he is complimented by an elite defence. But I wouldn't pick Dak ahead of Mahomes, Allen, Tua, Jackson, Stroud, Burrow, Herbert, Lawrence to save my life. I'd have Dak as the 'in form' leader of the group that includes Watson, Cousins (when fit), Mayfield, Carr, Goff, Stafford (when fit). So to me he is above average and always has been. Great value in the 4th round, great value if he was on a middle of the road contract but not the guy that will win us a SB or worth top dollar.