Dak numbers without Zeke

[khiladi]

As I said, the weaknesses of Dak, what people attribute as 'regression', those were his identified flaws in the pre-draft scouting report. It is more accurate right now to say last year was an anomaly than this year.

WEAKNESSES: Work in progress as a passer but has a live arm and good field vision. His footwork is inconsistent and he loses accuracy when his feet are not set.

Tends to predetermine some throws and relies on a lot of back shoulder patterns, something that got him in trouble against Auburn and Alabama. Has not shown the consistency to lead his team through the air in tough road environments when the ground game is shut down.

Prescott is a project. His footwork needs to be adjusted and then drilled over and over again to erase years of bad technique. A good quarterback coach will focus on not just taking drops from center but also on finding a consistent launch point on every three-, five- and seven-step drop so those steps are always at the same depth and same speed.

Right now—and some of this is due to how he was used at Mississippi State—Prescott stares down pressure in the pocket. This leads to a hesitation in his reads down the field, and in the NFL, that's a sack. After four years of running the ball and playing behind suspect offensive lines, the last thing Prescott needs is to absorb more free hits in the NFL. He has to learn to use his feet to evade the rush while staying true in the pocket and keeping his eyes downfield to scan for targets.

Can Prescott learn to throw on time and to space instead of to receivers? In the Bulldogs offense, he dominated with dink-and-dunk routes while struggling on downfield routes. He has the arm to push the ball deep but wasn't accurate enough to be a serious threat there consistently. NFL coaches must be patient while fixing his mechanics, which will in turn improve his accuracy. One of the great traits of Andrew Luck and JameisWinston when they were prospects was their ability to anticipate routes and coverages, and Prescott doesn't show that yet.

Hesitation, doesn't set his feet at times, chucking balls over head, and his inability to throw WRs open... He dominates on dink and dunk but struggles downfield... He has the arm to throw deep, but he's not accurate to throw consistently. He hesitates in the pocket and holds on to the ball too long. These are are consistent weaknesses pointed out by pretty much every scouting report. He struggles when the running game is stopped.

What we are witnessing is Dak Prescott, normalization, not regression... Yes, he's good when the OL is dominating and the Running game is established, but when they struggle, his lack of consistency is totally on display.

 

[HungryLion]

As I said, the weaknesses of Dak, what people attribute as 'regression', those were his identified flaws in the pre-draft scouting report. It is more accurate right now to say last year was an anomaly than this year.





Hesitation, doesn't set his feet at times, chucking balls over head, and his inability to throw WRs open... He dominates on dink and dunk but struggles downfield... He has the arm to throw deep, but he's not accurate to throw consistently. He hesitates in the pocket and holds on to the ball too long. These are are consistent weaknesses pointed out by pretty much every scouting report. He struggles when the running game is stopped.

What we are witnessing is Dak Prescott, normalization, not regression... Yes, he's good when the OL is dominating and the Running game is established, but when they struggle, his lack of consistency is totally on display.

You fail to mention that all of those issues are also correctable and things that can be improved upon.

Dak also has the intangibles that can’t be taught and has proven that on an NFL field many times over during his first couple years in the league.

So I don’t think it’s unreasonable for some of us to want to keep Dak and see how much more
He can improve his game.

 

[IheartRomo]

Dak has got to improve his accuracy to get better. Can't throw a back shoulder fade. Cannot throw a receiver open. He needs everything in his favor to be decent. How many dropped interceptions has he thrown since he has been here. He has had a lot of luck so far. Coaches need to get more creative with the offense. We are so predictable it is funny. It seems the defense in the huddle with us.

Agree with you on the predictability - it's almost laughable if it wasn't so scary.

Dak certainly has to improve but the flashes of being a very competent pocket passer have been there (certainly last year, and at times this year). He's a second year QB who has played exceedingly well all things considered. He's nowhere close to a finished product but I just think it's unfair to knock him because he isn't Romo. Not very many QBs have ever been as good as Romo was. He was one of the best of his generation - just after Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Brees but solidly in, if not near the top of, the Roethlisberger, Rivers class.

 

[Trouty]

As I said, the weaknesses of Dak, what people attribute as 'regression', those were his identified flaws in the pre-draft scouting report. It is more accurate right now to say last year was an anomaly than this year.





Hesitation, doesn't set his feet at times, chucking balls over head, and his inability to throw WRs open... He dominates on dink and dunk but struggles downfield... He has the arm to throw deep, but he's not accurate to throw consistently. He hesitates in the pocket and holds on to the ball too long. These are are consistent weaknesses pointed out by pretty much every scouting report. He struggles when the running game is stopped.

What we are witnessing is Dak Prescott, normalization, not regression... Yes, he's good when the OL is dominating and the Running game is established, but when they struggle, his lack of consistency is totally on display.

How is this a certainty at this point? I mean, I'm down on Dak this year, as well. But there's a whole hell of a lot of absolutes being slung around in the thread.

You speak of RG3's rookie year stats, have you compared their year 2 stats?

 

[JeffInDC]

Have you bothered to notice that Linehan has effectively squashed the seven-step drop for Dak? That is what pro football and QB'ing is primarily about...

And we are in a Coryell offense and we squashed it as the primary drop-back for him...

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When the hell do you see Wentz, Rodgers, Brees, Brady taking 7-Step drops? This isn't 1985.........look back at team sack totals in that era. The reason the Bears and Vikings each crossed that magical 70 sack threshold is because their respective defenses feasted on traditional, statue-esque QB's that took FOREVER to release the ball......because the offensive design (including the original Air Coryell) was to throw everything 15 yards past the LOS. These defenses created the need for quicker drops (3 & 5 step) and shorter throws. That's exactly what Marino and Co. did to the Bears in their 1 loss that season - shorter, quicker throws to use the Bears aggression against them.

 

[irishline]

Wot?

RG3's rookie year was nothing like Dak's.

Not that I am trying to bash Dak or that do not like him but:


Completion percentage: Dak 67.8%, RG3 65.8%
Passing Yards: Dak 3,667, RG3 3,200
TD (%): Dak 23 (5.0%), 20, (5.1%)
INT (%): Dak 4 (0.9%), 5 (1.3%)
Yards per attempt (per catch): Dak 8.0 (11.8), RG3 8.1 (12.4)
Rushing yards (TD): Dak: 282 (6), Rg3 815 (7)

Dak had an incredible year and I believe he is our future, but lets not downplay just how good RG3 was his rookie season. Many sites (NFL.com included) have Griffin's rookie season as one of the top 5 for an NFL QB in the super bowl era.

Do I think Dak will fall from grace they way RG3 did? No. But RG3 is a incredibly powerful cautionary tale about anointing someone too quickly.

Dak also has the intangibles that can’t be taught and has proven that on an NFL field many times over during his first couple years in the league.

This is the biggest difference between Dak and RG3 and it is in plain display every time he drops back to throw. He has some issues but he has all the tools to improve on what needs to be improved, and has the intangibles that RG3 never did.

 

[khiladi]

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When the hell do you see Wentz, Rodgers, Brees, Brady taking 7-Step drops? This isn't 1985.........look back at team sack totals in that era. The reason the Bears and Vikings each crossed that magical 70 sack threshold is because their respective defenses feasted on traditional, statue-esque QB's that took FOREVER to release the ball......because the offensive design (including the original Air Coryell) was to throw everything 15 yards past the LOS. These defenses created the need for quicker drops (3 & 5 step) and shorter throws. That's exactly what Marino and Co. did to the Bears in their 1 loss that season - shorter, quicker throws to use the Bears aggression against them.

Notice what I said:

And we are in a Coryell offense and we squashed it as the primary drop-back for him...

Brady's offense by design gets the ball out quickly. But he also led the league in FIVE-step drops as well in 2015, meaning he's the very definition of a drop-back passer. All of these QBs can play under the Center and do it plenty.

Kyle Shanahan with Matt Ryan used shotgun only 30% of the time and like he points out, you effectively limit your options when your in shotgun, certain options like running being cut and half.

And that is the point:

For Dak it is to simplify the offense, just like I said...

Dallas offense by design is to threaten downfield and under the center...

 

[HungryLion]

Not that I am trying to bash Dak or that do not like him but:


Completion percentage: Dak 67.8%, RG3 65.8%
Passing Yards: Dak 3,667, RG3 3,200
TD (%): Dak 23 (5.0%), 20, (5.1%)
INT (%): Dak 4 (0.9%), 5 (1.3%)
Yards per attempt (per catch): Dak 8.0 (11.8), RG3 8.1 (12.4)
Rushing yards (TD): Dak: 282 (6), Rg3 815 (7)

Dak had an incredible year and I believe he is our future, but lets not downplay just how good RG3 was his rookie season. Many sites (NFL.com included) have Griffin's rookie season as one of the top 5 for an NFL QB in the super bowl era.

Do I think Dak will fall from grace they way RG3 did? No. But RG3 is a incredibly powerful cautionary tale about anointing someone too quickly.

RG3 absolutely had an amazing rookie year.

Although, I do think it’s apples to oranges based on the systems the two guys played in. Yes Dak has elite talent around him.

However, RG3 has a massive benefit of running the read option, pistol formation and RPO’s that nfl defenses weren’t used to. Defenses has no answer for those plays in his rookie season. Once defenses adjusted it was over.

Dak’s offense last year was a traditional style offense. That didn’t feature any new gimmicks. Simply just world class talent around him.

 

[Trouty]

Not that I am trying to bash Dak or that do not like him but:


Completion percentage: Dak 67.8%, RG3 65.8%
Passing Yards: Dak 3,667, RG3 3,200
TD (%): Dak 23 (5.0%), 20, (5.1%)
INT (%): Dak 4 (0.9%), 5 (1.3%)
Yards per attempt (per catch): Dak 8.0 (11.8), RG3 8.1 (12.4)
Rushing yards (TD): Dak: 282 (6), Rg3 815 (7)

Dak had an incredible year and I believe he is our future, but lets not downplay just how good RG3 was his rookie season. Many sites (NFL.com included) have Griffin's rookie season as one of the top 5 for an NFL QB in the super bowl era.

Do I think Dak will fall from grace they way RG3 did? No. But RG3 is a incredibly powerful cautionary tale about anointing someone too quickly.

Right. I went off-tangent with Khiladi. I was speaking more of their play, rather than the stats. Hell, we could lump any number of QBs with great first years (rookie year/first year starting) in with Dak.

Their styles were/are worlds apart. And RG3's second year regression was much more pronounced than what Dak is going through.

 

[irishline]

RG3 absolutely had an amazing rookie year.

Although, I do think it’s apples to oranges based on the systems the two guys played in. Yes Dak has elite talent around him.

However, RG3 has a massive benefit of running the read option, pistol formation and RPO’s that nfl defenses weren’t used to. Defenses has no answer for those plays in his rookie season. Once defenses adjusted it was over.

Dak’s offense last year was a traditional style offense. That didn’t feature any new gimmicks. Simply just world class talent around him.

Oh I completely agree with you. I was actually adding a quote from you to my original post stating something similar while you typed this (not quite as in-depth or eloquent as you stated above). You just hit reply before I could finish my edit.

 

[khiladi]

You fail to mention that all of those issues are also correctable and things that can be improved upon.

Dak also has the intangibles that can’t be taught and has proven that on an NFL field many times over during his first couple years in the league.

So I don’t think it’s unreasonable for some of us to want to keep Dak and see how much more
He can improve his game.

Yes, he potentially can. All I am saying is this argument that this year is an anomaly, as opposed to last year is simply untrue. These are the identified weakness in Dak's game that goes back to college, so it's not a regression. Just as people think he can improve his game, the worries regarding his play this year in particular is justified too.

 

[irishline]

Their styles were/are worlds apart. And RG3's second year regression was much more pronounced than what Dak is going through.

That is so true. I do think the injury RG3 sustained at the end of the year attributed to that somewhat. However, RG3 could never read a defense at an NFL level, and as DakPresgoat said NFL defenses figured out how to play against the pistol. While their styles of play were different, the results were somewhat similar.

That said, I don't see the same problems with Dak. His are more mechanicall and easier to correct (with better coaching and his work ethic I expect they will be).

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I don't think an O-Line with Byron Bell and La'el Collins at tackle with Jonathan Cooper at LG is an O-Line that QB's dream of.

It goes beyond EE as up until last night, Morris was averaging 5.0 yards per carry.

It was about a coaching staff that have very predictable play calling and struggles to adjust when things do not go to plan with a major problem at the Z-Receiver position, the complete regression of Witten and Dez as receivers. Combine that with Dak's footwork issues and the pass protection taking a massive decline...it's why the numbers dropped despite such good production from Morris.




YR

All this excuse making and hyperbole. Suddenly Witten and Dez suck though you acknowledge the QB has sight and footwork and accuracy issues. Meanwhile Dez and Witten have track records the can point to.

This isn't a chicken or the egg situation. We know the problem isn't with our pass catchers it's with our passer. Everything else is just conjecture and fantasy trying to arrive at an outcome that you prefer.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Run off a broken down QB who never reached the conference finals? Okay

Romo was healthy when we parted ways with him. And a QB doesn't make a conference finals. A team does.

 

[CowboyRoy]

QB rating:
59.5
137.1
93.4
60.6
30.4
82.1

TDs: 5
INTs: 7

Record: 3-3

The entire team has missed Zeke, Dak included. And lets not forget that we have one of the worst head coaches in the NFL. So Dak was pretty much left to fend for himself. Also of note is half of those games were also without Tyron Smith. You can pretty much take that worst game off the books as Chaz Green couldnt even block and ruined any chance of Dak or the Cowboys playing well.

then of course half of those games were without Sean Lee on the defense. Which was pretty much a gauranteed loss right there. Been much more then the loss of Zeke.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Yeah they're looking dominant

People see the world “Seattle” and think “legion of boom.” The legion is disbanded for the year. Seattle has surrendered over 70 points in two weeks. For now, the team is mainly Russell Wilson running for his life and floating prayers.

 

[Trouty]

People see the world “Seattle” and think “legion of boom.” The legion is disbanded for the year. Seattle has surrendered over 70 points in two weeks. For now, the team is mainly Russell Wilson running for his life and floating prayers.

Yup. Saw you fighting the good fight, explaining this many times to folks yesterday, Scip

 

[JeffInDC]

Yes, he potentially can. All I am saying is this argument that this year is an anomaly, as opposed to last year is simply untrue. These are the identified weakness in Dak's game that goes back to college, so it's not a regression. Just as people think he can improve his game, the worries regarding his play this year in particular is justified too.

See, THIS is the type of logical argument to be had. I think what happens (maybe not so much with you) is that OTHERS are trying to state emphatically that they just seem to know he'll never get better, blah, blah, blah...........Aaron Rodgers threw 3 picks yesterday. Now, obviously we all know how great he is. But, stuff happens. Of course there were gonna be growing pains with Dak.........but, to act as if he hasn't shown real glimpses of being a really good NFL QB are insane.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

On the field Dak reminds me so much of RG3/Kaepernick. The only difference is Dak has a good head on his shoulders hopefully that can make the difference. But this passing offense is atrocious to watch.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Yup. Saw you fighting the good fight, explaining this many times to folks yesterday, Scip

I’m amused by all the dire prognosticating.

“Seattle is going to curb stomp us.”

“They’re going to bring us back to reality.”

Why? What’s so great about them? They have the same record the Cowboys do. Like the Cowboys, they’ve struggled mightily through injuries. Like Dak, Wilson has thrown in some clunkers. We have a clapper. They have a gum smacker. The difference is the Cowboys are returning key pieces next week. The Seahawks aren’t.