Dallas might need 2 new starting DTs next year

[kskboys]

Well that's why the Bucc's got rid of him because was washed lol. I wouldn't have had a problem with going after him. Hill was never about this season. He was never meant to come in and fill a need. I don't know what the Cowboys intentions are with the salary cap. Like they clearly wanted to set aside money to re-sign their own guys. Adding Quinn and Cobb's contracts.....I don't know how much they had left get a McCoy. I personally liked Malik Jackson or that role.

TB acquired a ton of talent and didn't need him any more. Prolly a salary dump.

Older players get released all the time to save salary, why would you automatically assume he's washed up?

 

[xwalker]

Maybe, maybe not. If the middle is stout, the LB's and DE's don't have to crash in to protect it.

That run was outside the DE.

There was nothing the DTs could do about that.

There was an 11 & 7 yard run in the middle before they started playing a prevent defense in the 2nd half. Those were the only significant runs in the middle.

Both of those were in a LB gap (6 gaps, 4 DL, 2 gaps for the LBs).

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

TB acquired a ton of talent and didn't need him any more. Prolly a salary dump.

Older players get released all the time to save salary, why would you automatically assume he's washed up?

He was washed up last year.

 

[Sydla]

Well that's why the Bucc's got rid of him because was washed lol. I wouldn't have had a problem with going after him. Hill was never about this season. He was never meant to come in and fill a need. I don't know what the Cowboys intentions are with the salary cap. Like they clearly wanted to set aside money to re-sign their own guys. Adding Quinn and Cobb's contracts.....I don't know how much they had left get a McCoy. I personally liked Malik Jackson or that role.

To say Hill was never about this season is poppycock.

There is no way this franchise took a guy in the 2nd round factoring in/assuming/knowing he might be a non factor this year.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

To say Hill was never about this season is poppycock.

There is no way this franchise took a guy in the 2nd round assuming/knowing he would be a non factor this year.

This, if so that would be first round pick in Taco Bell and Hill that they was picking and give them a couple of years to get acclimated, which is crazy and wasted picks.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

To say Hill was never about this season is poppycock.

There is no way this franchise took a guy in the 2nd round factoring in/assuming/knowing he might be a non factor this year.

So he got benched in college but was suppose to be good enough to start in the pros? I just don’t see it. I can see if he was a top 10 pick but a mate 2nd rounder? They took a flyer on a project.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

My thing is they had taken a project on Taco not long ago. These first 2 rounds you cannot just close your eyes and throw a dart at the board. You have to hit on some of these.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Yeah I disagree. When you talk about premiere DT's in this league it isn't very long. There are more average to below average DT's in this league than there are actual above average to premiere guys. Same goes for Safety.

This whole "Jag" title. IT bothers me. Antwan Woods is a JAG. Collins is not that. When healthy he's proven he can play in this league.


Yeah I don't know ion he was interested in coming here but Malik Jackson was definitely someone I would've looked at. And from what I remember the contract wasn't even a big one.

When healthy? Which has been very little. And then what has he done when healthy? The guy is always the talk of camp and then makes little impact. He may be our best DT, but I see him as a JAG. Inability to stay healthy included in that.

I guess we just disagree on the Tackle, Safety thing. Strength up the middle should be a priority, not an afterthought. The DC's that want to build a good defense understand that.

Just look at our Marinelli. His defense is predicated on the 3 technique being a disruptor. Without it, his defense doesnt work so well.

Warren Sapp?

 

[kskboys]

That run was outside the DE.

There was nothing the DTs could do about that.

There was an 11 & 7 yard run in the middle before they started playing a prevent defense in the 2nd half. Those were the only significant runs in the middle.

Both of those were in a LB gap (6 gaps, 4 DL, 2 gaps for the LBs).

Yes, there is. They could be bigger and stymie the middle so the other players don't have to cover the gaps they leave by rushing in or being pushed aside.

I don't know the X's and O's anywhere near how you do and I don't pretend to, but this is basic stuff. Playing two 3 techs at DT has never won a super bowl that I'm aware of.

 

[kskboys]

He was washed up last year.

6 sacks says he wasn't.

 

[kskboys]

So he got benched in college but was suppose to be good enough to start in the pros? I just don’t see it. I can see if he was a top 10 pick but a mate 2nd rounder? They took a flyer on a project.

They did, yes.

I think the biggest problem is that they didn't seem to be aware that Hill is a project player.

 

[ChuckA1]

I hope everyone here remembers it was Game 1, which we won by a decisive margin! The BS they go through in pre-season does not equate to real game situations. Let's give this D a little more time to gel before we talk about canning the DT's.

 

[Batman1980]

They did, yes.

I think the biggest problem is that they didn't seem to be aware that Hill is a project player.

Marinelli's lost the ability to evaluate these kids.

 

[BlueStar22]

Why are yall worried about next year 1 week into this season. Aren't you tired of contract talk yet?

 

[xwalker]

Well that's why the Bucc's got rid of him because was washed lol. I wouldn't have had a problem with going after him. Hill was never about this season. He was never meant to come in and fill a need. I don't know what the Cowboys intentions are with the salary cap. Like they clearly wanted to set aside money to re-sign their own guys. Adding Quinn and Cobb's contracts.....I don't know how much they had left get a McCoy. I personally liked Malik Jackson or that role.

I don't think McCoy is washed up. He was a salary dump.

 

[xwalker]

Yup, it's not the size. Our problem has been that we keep trotting out 3 techs to play the 1 tech position. Which might mean more pass rush, but also means less strength up the middle. Why oh why don't people remember Rats getting washed out against the Ravens for two long runs up the middle? You need that clogger to stop that nonsense.

Ratliff was in the 3-4 defense.

 

[xwalker]

And Thornton was a 3 tech type, not a stuffer.

I think all the top 4-3 D's have a run stuffer at NT. Let's see, offhand, MINN/4th, 329lb Linval. Cowboys/7th/Woods at 312. SD/9th/Mebane at 311. Jax/5th/Abry Jones at 318. BUFF/2nd/Lotulelei at 315.

Those are the top 10 4-3 D's. As you can see, we are the only one w/o a stuffer. Once again, it's not size.

With the Eagles Thorton was one of the tougher match-ups for Zack Martin. Thorton was terrific against zone runs.

Thorton lost weight before he got to camp with the Cowboys and he looked like a different player. There was also some type of personality issue but I never heard any details other than some people in the organization were irritated with him.

 

[xwalker]

Yes, there is. They could be bigger and stymie the middle so the other players don't have to cover the gaps they leave by rushing in or being pushed aside.

I don't know the X's and O's anywhere near how you do and I don't pretend to, but this is basic stuff. Playing two 3 techs at DT has never won a super bowl that I'm aware of.

Woods is not a 3-tech.

Collins is 310 pounds.

After the season I posted the weights of the DTs for all of the playoff teams. They Cowboys were the 2nd heaviest if I recall correctly. The Pats were the heaviest with a 315 pound DT and a 320 pound DT as the starters.

The Rams game was not about the DL getting blown up physically. It was all about scheme and the Rams run scheme getting defenders out of position.

 

[Johnny23]

Ratliff was in the 3-4 defense.

And playing out of position at Nose and we killed his career and drove him mad breaking his back. It is something @kskboys have discussed over the years on the official boards about how we need an active stout DT in the middle so Ratliff can play 5-tech in base and 3-Tech in dime and nickle. But our football dumb owner and son have no value for DTs after Russell Maryland left for Oakland in free agency. Down played the contributions of our DTs during the Super Bowl dynasty years.

We took a guy like Ratliff who played hurt,great locker room guy,and would do what was asked of him. Jerked him around and soured him to the point he turned a complete 180 at the end.


We took a project play in Hill. Much like we took a project in JJ Wilcox to play safety because we don't value having impact players in the middle of the defense.

 

[xwalker]

And playing out of position at Nose and we killed his career and drove him mad breaking his back. It is something @kskboys have discussed over the years on the official boards about how we need an active stout DT in the middle so Ratliff can play 5-tech in base and 3-Tech in dime and nickle. But our football dumb owner and son have no value for DTs after Russell Maryland left for Oakland in free agency. Down played the contributions of our DTs during the Super Bowl dynasty years.

We took a guy like Ratliff who played hurt,great locker room guy,and would do what was asked of him. Jerked him around and soured him to the point he turned a complete 180 at the end.


We took a project play in Hill. Much like we took a project in JJ Wilcox to play safety because we don't value having impact players in the middle of the defense.

The Wade Phillips defense has been highly successful with multiple different teams and he is not known for big NTs. Ratliff was over 300. Ratliff was an insane type personality early on. I went to training camp many of those years and Ratliff was always an on-edge type person. More crazy in practice than I saw from Charles Haley back in the day.

Russell Maryland was not a huge DT. He was valued for his quickness with decent size.

The Cowboys have bigger DTs (by weight) than all but 1 team in the playoffs last season.

The days of the Tub of Lard DTs is long gone. There are a few 330 plus DTs but they also have freakish quickness for their size (Snacks, Poe, Shelton).

The Zone Run Blocking scheme made the Tub of Lard slugs obsolete.

When the Cowboys have Crawford at DT they are too small but with Collins and Woods they're heavier than all but 1 playoff team at DT.

Hill was 308 in the draft and reportedly played some years in college at 320.

The new backup Covington is bigger than the 4th DTs they had last year (Ross & Reid).

There is a long running fan narrative that a monster sized DT would solve all problems but that more fan imagination than reality. The best DT in the NFL is Aaron Donald and he plays at under 300 pounds.