Dallas Passed on Him For Character Issues...
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Talk about a blast from the past.
GTaylor
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To everyone who wanted Moss over Ellis...
- Can you promise he would be as motivated being picked #8 as he was when he was passed over by 20 teams (Cincinnatti passed him twice and Tennessee took a WR earlier)?
- Can you promise Irvin was going to be just as positive a role model as former-addict Chris Carter, who not only had Moss training with him at his camp in Florida but made Moss cut his hair (Remember, in 98 is when the Cowboys had Scissorgate)? Also can you promise Moss would still stay productive when Irvin gets injured and has to retire?
- Can you promise Moss was going to behave just as well in party-city Dallas as he did in Minny?
- Better yet, could he have flourished with the very bright lights that were going to be beaming down on him from local/national media questioning his every move (Kinda like what T.O. is going through here but remember, we're talking about a rookie, not a vet)
If you can answer yes (I couldn't, I know #1 would be a no as his motivation was proving everyone wrong. #2 a maybe, would depend on how he would have handled scissorgate/Irvin's injury/being double-teamed afterwards, #3 would be a yes since Gailey was the head coach even though players went around him and #4 would be a yes if the team was successful, if they struggled I think we would have seen his actions similiar to his later years in Minny) then you're correct in that we picked the wrong guy. Myself there are too many ifs ands or butts, with a #8 pick you need someone you have no doubt about which is why I had no problem with Ellis.
- Can you promise he would be as motivated being picked #8 as he was when he was passed over by 20 teams (Cincinnatti passed him twice and Tennessee took a WR earlier)?
- Can you promise Irvin was going to be just as positive a role model as former-addict Chris Carter, who not only had Moss training with him at his camp in Florida but made Moss cut his hair (Remember, in 98 is when the Cowboys had Scissorgate)? Also can you promise Moss would still stay productive when Irvin gets injured and has to retire?
- Can you promise Moss was going to behave just as well in party-city Dallas as he did in Minny?
- Better yet, could he have flourished with the very bright lights that were going to be beaming down on him from local/national media questioning his every move (Kinda like what T.O. is going through here but remember, we're talking about a rookie, not a vet)
If you can answer yes (I couldn't, I know #1 would be a no as his motivation was proving everyone wrong. #2 a maybe, would depend on how he would have handled scissorgate/Irvin's injury/being double-teamed afterwards, #3 would be a yes since Gailey was the head coach even though players went around him and #4 would be a yes if the team was successful, if they struggled I think we would have seen his actions similiar to his later years in Minny) then you're correct in that we picked the wrong guy. Myself there are too many ifs ands or butts, with a #8 pick you need someone you have no doubt about which is why I had no problem with Ellis.
Yeagermeister
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GTaylor;1544536 said:
:clap2:
theogt
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http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/1998Kilyin;1544582 said:
Dude, look at that list and tell me that Greg Ellis hasn't played like a 1st rounder. He's had a better career than half the players in the first round.
joseephuss
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Kilyin;1544582 said:
Moss is better than Ellis. No question. Moss would not have brought a Superbowl to Dallas. They would have still had lots of holes on the team even with Moss. Dallas has struggled to draft guys to provide 6-7 sacks per season except for Ellis and now Ware. How would they magically do a better job of it with Moss on the team? They wouldn't because Jerry and crew were poor at drafting.
I have always thought that Moss would have made the offense in Dallas better, but it would still not be enough to be a winner.
It may have changed history because the play that Irvin got hurt on may have never happened. They would not go after Galloway was a bigger impact, but Jerry would have wasted those two 1st round picks.
Aikman's career probably does not go any longer because he was already struggling with back problems and concussions.
Emmitt was in his 8th season and not getting better. He was still good, but his best years were behind him. That happens to most backs. The average career for a running back is just over 3 years, so it is no surprise that Emmitt was on the down side by 1998.
Dallas was just a mess and Randy Moss does not fix that. He probably ends up leaving in free agency or Jerry over pays to keep him hampering the salary cap.
Randy Moss in Dallas would have been scary. The pressure to win and be productive is much greater in Dallas than it is in Minny. I have always had doubts that Moss could have dealt with that pressure and I wanted Dallas to draft him. I am a fan of Ellis and appreciate everything that he did for the Cowboys. I just thought Moss was a better player, but I was also cautious of the pick.
Moss is going to his 3rd team for a reason and in neither trade did the team trading him get a lot in return. New England isn't even looking at him to be the Moss of his first few seasons. They just want him to be better than what they had last year. They aren't putting all their eggs in the Moss basket. That is why they picked up Welker and Stallworth.
Q_the_man
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And more than Likely a HOFerdargonking999;1544261 said:Yea the same guy 21 other teams passed on
The same guy that has found his way onto his 3rd team in his career
the same guy that has been criticized for giving up on plays, and quitting on his team
the same guy who walked off the field in the middle of a game
the same guy who openly admitted to doing marijuanas while he was playing
Yea we really shouldn't have passed on him
I liked you better when you were riding B.Q. At least he's not a complete waste of time
CrazyCowboy
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wOW......another one for the new commish
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Wroten update from my hometown newspaper website:
LINK
Wroten ready to shine
By MARQ MITCHAM
Published: Friday, July 20, 2007 6:26 PM CDT
E-mail this story | Print this page
Entering his second NFL season, Claude Wroten reports to the St. Louis Rams' training camp on Thursday. Wroten sat down for an interview prior to working out at the Bastrop High fieldhouse yesterday afternoon.
First Quarter
As a rookie, Wroten was a backup defensive tackle, playing behind La'Roi Glover. Playing in 15 games, he recorded 11 tackles (nine unassisted) with one sack, a forced fumble and seven quarterback hurries.
BDE: Is NFL training camp as tough as people say it is?
Claude Wroten: If you don't have your mind right, it can be mentally and physically taxing. It's not as hard as some people make it out to be, but if you're not in shape, it can be tough.
The blisters on your feet and the heat can get you.
BDE: Is the heat as bad in St. Louis as it is in Louisiana?
Wroten: It can get pretty hot in St. Louis, but there is nothing like 100 degrees at 3 (p.m.) in Baton Rouge.
BDE: I read in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that you came into camp a little out of shape last year, but reported to mini-camp in top condition. What was the difference?
Wroten: I went to training camp last year thinking I was in shape. After watching the veterans, I realized I didn't have a grasp on the mental and physical side of it.
My mindset this off-season has been to get bigger, faster and stronger. This is going to be a real good camp for me. I intend to open the eyes of a lot of people.
BDE: Is it easier going into camp as a second-year player, knowing what to expect?
Wroten: It is so much easier. As a rookie, you're getting initiated by the veterans, trying to learn the playbook and getting adjusted to the NFL. You've been watching all these guys on TV, then all of a sudden you're on the field with them.
With a year behind me, I have gotten used to it. I know the guys, I know the playbook and the schedule. I just have a better understanding of everything.
BDE: We've all heard the stories about rookies being hazed in NFL camps. Tell us about some of your experiences last year.
Wroten: It wasn't as bad as some people say it is. The veterans made us do stuff like carry their pads, wash their helmets, buy their lunch and clean out their lockers.
The Rams aren't as bad about hazing as some of the other teams. We didn't have to do anything that caused any hard feelings.
Some teams will wake the rookies up early and tape them to the goalposts, pour Gatorade on them and push them in cold tubs full of cold water.
We had a talent show last year where the rookies had to sing and do skits. It was actually kind of fun. I imitated Brian Baker, our defensive line coach.
BDE: Last year, you had a reputation for playing a little out of control. What adjustments did you have to make to become a more disciplined player?
Wroten: These guys are veterans and know the game real well. You can't just go out there on athletic ability alone. You have to know your keys.
I have learned what to do and what not to do in certain situations. In high school and college, the best athlete usually wins. In the NFL, that's not the case at all.
It wasn't that I was out of control last year - I was going fast and strong, but it wasn't always in the right direction.
Now, I've gotten a better grasp of the mental side of the game and learned to play faster and smarter.
Second Quarter
Wroten was arrested for criminal property damage (a misdemeanor) earlier this month in Baton Rouge, following an incident at the home of his ex-girlfriend.
Shortly before the 2006 draft, Wroten was arrested for possession of marijuana with intent to distribute after being pulled over for speeding by Sterlington Police. Although charges were later dropped, Wroten paid a price for the incident. A projected mid-to-late first round pick, he was eventually drafted in the third round as the 68th pick overall.
On the field, he is looking to earn more playing time. In an effort to bolster the front four, the Rams drafted three defensive linemen - Nebraska end Adam Carriker in the first round and Michigan State tackle Clifton Ryan and Arkansas tackle Keith Jackson, both in the fifth round. Also, the Rams acquired end James Hall from Detroit and traded DT Jimmy Kennedy, a former first-round pick, to Denver.
BDE: Are you facing any possible disciplinary action, stemming from the charges in Baton Rouge?
Wroten: It was a small incident with my ex-girlfriend. No disciplinary action will be taken. The charges are going to be dropped.
You know I always shake back from my mistakes.
BDE: How are the Rams' off-season moves on the defensive line going to affect you?
Wroten: It's pretty much the same situation as last year. Adam played end in college and he's going to play nose guard for us. Jimmy didn't play the nose as much.
I'm primarily a three-tech (tackle). My playing time will increase a lot. Even though La'Roi Glover is a veteran, he can't do some of the things he did in his prime.
Coach (Scott Linehan) is looking for me become a leader and step up my game preparation and I intend to do that.
BDE: How much have you improved since last season?
Wroten: It's like night and day. I'm bigger, faster and stronger. The game has slowed down for me. I'm reading my keys and picking up things I haven't picked up before.
BDE: Are you expecting to have a breakout season?
Wroten: Not to be boa$tful or arrogant, but I don't think there is anybody in the NFL who can block me.
A lot of guys on the team have told me that I could become one of the best defensive linemen in the league, and that's what I'm striving to do.
I want to have at least 10 sacks. That's how determined I am and how much confidence I have in my ability.
BDE: There has been some talk of you filling in at defensive end and playing on special teams. What do you expect your role to be this season?
Wroten: It's going to be hard to start because you don't just push a guy who has been in the league as long as La'Roi Glover off to the side. It's probably going to be a rotation. I may not start, but I'm going to get just as much playing time.
On third down situations, I may slide out to end to utilize my pass rushing skills.
I'm versatile. I can play nose guard, the 3-tech or end. I know every position on the defensive line.
I'm willing to do the things to help the team win.
Third Quarter
One of four NFC teams to finish with a break even 8-8 record (the New York Giants won the tiebreaker to gain the conference's final playoff spot), the Rams allowed an alarming 23.8 points per game - 28th in the league - and were particularly vulnerable against the run.
BDE: The knock against the Rams' defense last year was its inability to defend the run. Do you expect to see a big improvement in this area?
Wroten: It's going to be a totally different story this year.
We've added some defensive linemen in the draft. Besides Adam, who is going to start, we've added some depth.
We weren't terrible last year. It wasn't anything big, it was the little things that hurt us. We know what we did wrong and those mistakes have been corrected.
Our goal is to be one of the top defenses in the league in every category.
BDE: Do you expect the Rams to make the playoffs this year?
Wroten: We had a good team last year, but we lost a lot of close games. We lost two close games to Seattle that we should have won and we lost a game to San Francisco that we should have won.
I'm not satisfied at all with 8-8.
This year, we will definitely make the playoffs.
We're going to be better offensively, defensively and on special teams and we're going to stop the run.
Coach feels it, the team feels it and I know I feel it.
BDE: What are some of the less glamorous aspects of playing in the NFL that the average fan doesn't see?
Wroten: Everybody sees the big houses and the fancy rides. But they don't see all the work it takes to get to the NFL and what it takes to maintain your place in the league.
They see you playing on TV on Sunday, but they don't see all the preparation that went into the game. They don't see the grind, the practice and the sweat and blood we put into the game. Most people don't understand how much hard work goes into it.
It's a tough career.
BDE: Tell us about a typical day at training camp.
Wroten: During two-a-days, you wake up at 6 in the morning and go to meetings and breakfast by 7:30.
After practice, I try to get back to the room and take a nap.
Then, we watch film from the first practice and have our second practice around 1 (p.m.). The afternoon practice usually lasts an hour and a half or two hours. We'll watch some more film, eat lunch and get out around 4 (p.m.).
BDE: What's a typical day during the regular season?
Wroten: I wake up at 6 (a.m.) and get to the stadium by 6:30. We eat breakfast and have meetings until 7:15. Then, we have special teams meetings, team meetings and practice a couple of hours until noon.
After lunch, we have a light weight workout and watch film. On the average day, we leave the stadium around 4 (p.m.).
BDE: How is the food at training camp?
Wroten: Most of the time, Missouri food's just not as good as Louisiana food. Sometimes they'll have somebody from one of the St. Louis restaurants come in and cook for us.
Fourth Quarter
Wroten works out regularly at the BHS fieldhouse with NFL tight end Brian Jones and former BHS defensive lineman Jarvis Edmonds.
BDE: You and Brian spend a lot of time at the fieldhouse. How important is it to you to give something back to the community?
Wroten: I feel like it's very important, even if it's just coming back and chillin' with my friends.
A lot of times you hear about people making a cash donation, but you never see them. I like to give back face-to-face.
BDE: You actually gave up football to focus on basketball your junior year of high school. Do you still play basketball?
Wroten: I do a little slamming at the park a couple of days a week with my fat-neck friend Jarvis Edmonds.
Basketball was always my first love. I was just too short and too fat.
But it's all worked out for the good. I've been blessed to have the opportunity to play in the NFL. I've been real blessed.
BDE: Everybody wants to play in the NFL, but so few have the talent or the drive. What advice do you give when you talk to high school football and junior high football players?
Wroten: I know it's kind of hypocritical, but the first thing I tell them is don't do drugs. I tell them to get their grades and to stay focused. Life is not going to go your way all the time.
What you do off the field is going to affect what you do in the long run.
If you do things right off the field, what you do on the field will take care of itself.
******
I wish they had shown a picture of the fieldhouse. It's nICe!
LINK
Wroten ready to shine
By MARQ MITCHAM
Published: Friday, July 20, 2007 6:26 PM CDT
E-mail this story | Print this page
Entering his second NFL season, Claude Wroten reports to the St. Louis Rams' training camp on Thursday. Wroten sat down for an interview prior to working out at the Bastrop High fieldhouse yesterday afternoon.
First Quarter
As a rookie, Wroten was a backup defensive tackle, playing behind La'Roi Glover. Playing in 15 games, he recorded 11 tackles (nine unassisted) with one sack, a forced fumble and seven quarterback hurries.
BDE: Is NFL training camp as tough as people say it is?
Claude Wroten: If you don't have your mind right, it can be mentally and physically taxing. It's not as hard as some people make it out to be, but if you're not in shape, it can be tough.
The blisters on your feet and the heat can get you.
BDE: Is the heat as bad in St. Louis as it is in Louisiana?
Wroten: It can get pretty hot in St. Louis, but there is nothing like 100 degrees at 3 (p.m.) in Baton Rouge.
BDE: I read in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that you came into camp a little out of shape last year, but reported to mini-camp in top condition. What was the difference?
Wroten: I went to training camp last year thinking I was in shape. After watching the veterans, I realized I didn't have a grasp on the mental and physical side of it.
My mindset this off-season has been to get bigger, faster and stronger. This is going to be a real good camp for me. I intend to open the eyes of a lot of people.
BDE: Is it easier going into camp as a second-year player, knowing what to expect?
Wroten: It is so much easier. As a rookie, you're getting initiated by the veterans, trying to learn the playbook and getting adjusted to the NFL. You've been watching all these guys on TV, then all of a sudden you're on the field with them.
With a year behind me, I have gotten used to it. I know the guys, I know the playbook and the schedule. I just have a better understanding of everything.
BDE: We've all heard the stories about rookies being hazed in NFL camps. Tell us about some of your experiences last year.
Wroten: It wasn't as bad as some people say it is. The veterans made us do stuff like carry their pads, wash their helmets, buy their lunch and clean out their lockers.
The Rams aren't as bad about hazing as some of the other teams. We didn't have to do anything that caused any hard feelings.
Some teams will wake the rookies up early and tape them to the goalposts, pour Gatorade on them and push them in cold tubs full of cold water.
We had a talent show last year where the rookies had to sing and do skits. It was actually kind of fun. I imitated Brian Baker, our defensive line coach.
BDE: Last year, you had a reputation for playing a little out of control. What adjustments did you have to make to become a more disciplined player?
Wroten: These guys are veterans and know the game real well. You can't just go out there on athletic ability alone. You have to know your keys.
I have learned what to do and what not to do in certain situations. In high school and college, the best athlete usually wins. In the NFL, that's not the case at all.
It wasn't that I was out of control last year - I was going fast and strong, but it wasn't always in the right direction.
Now, I've gotten a better grasp of the mental side of the game and learned to play faster and smarter.
Second Quarter
Wroten was arrested for criminal property damage (a misdemeanor) earlier this month in Baton Rouge, following an incident at the home of his ex-girlfriend.
Shortly before the 2006 draft, Wroten was arrested for possession of marijuana with intent to distribute after being pulled over for speeding by Sterlington Police. Although charges were later dropped, Wroten paid a price for the incident. A projected mid-to-late first round pick, he was eventually drafted in the third round as the 68th pick overall.
On the field, he is looking to earn more playing time. In an effort to bolster the front four, the Rams drafted three defensive linemen - Nebraska end Adam Carriker in the first round and Michigan State tackle Clifton Ryan and Arkansas tackle Keith Jackson, both in the fifth round. Also, the Rams acquired end James Hall from Detroit and traded DT Jimmy Kennedy, a former first-round pick, to Denver.
BDE: Are you facing any possible disciplinary action, stemming from the charges in Baton Rouge?
Wroten: It was a small incident with my ex-girlfriend. No disciplinary action will be taken. The charges are going to be dropped.
You know I always shake back from my mistakes.
BDE: How are the Rams' off-season moves on the defensive line going to affect you?
Wroten: It's pretty much the same situation as last year. Adam played end in college and he's going to play nose guard for us. Jimmy didn't play the nose as much.
I'm primarily a three-tech (tackle). My playing time will increase a lot. Even though La'Roi Glover is a veteran, he can't do some of the things he did in his prime.
Coach (Scott Linehan) is looking for me become a leader and step up my game preparation and I intend to do that.
BDE: How much have you improved since last season?
Wroten: It's like night and day. I'm bigger, faster and stronger. The game has slowed down for me. I'm reading my keys and picking up things I haven't picked up before.
BDE: Are you expecting to have a breakout season?
Wroten: Not to be boa$tful or arrogant, but I don't think there is anybody in the NFL who can block me.
A lot of guys on the team have told me that I could become one of the best defensive linemen in the league, and that's what I'm striving to do.
I want to have at least 10 sacks. That's how determined I am and how much confidence I have in my ability.
BDE: There has been some talk of you filling in at defensive end and playing on special teams. What do you expect your role to be this season?
Wroten: It's going to be hard to start because you don't just push a guy who has been in the league as long as La'Roi Glover off to the side. It's probably going to be a rotation. I may not start, but I'm going to get just as much playing time.
On third down situations, I may slide out to end to utilize my pass rushing skills.
I'm versatile. I can play nose guard, the 3-tech or end. I know every position on the defensive line.
I'm willing to do the things to help the team win.
Third Quarter
One of four NFC teams to finish with a break even 8-8 record (the New York Giants won the tiebreaker to gain the conference's final playoff spot), the Rams allowed an alarming 23.8 points per game - 28th in the league - and were particularly vulnerable against the run.
BDE: The knock against the Rams' defense last year was its inability to defend the run. Do you expect to see a big improvement in this area?
Wroten: It's going to be a totally different story this year.
We've added some defensive linemen in the draft. Besides Adam, who is going to start, we've added some depth.
We weren't terrible last year. It wasn't anything big, it was the little things that hurt us. We know what we did wrong and those mistakes have been corrected.
Our goal is to be one of the top defenses in the league in every category.
BDE: Do you expect the Rams to make the playoffs this year?
Wroten: We had a good team last year, but we lost a lot of close games. We lost two close games to Seattle that we should have won and we lost a game to San Francisco that we should have won.
I'm not satisfied at all with 8-8.
This year, we will definitely make the playoffs.
We're going to be better offensively, defensively and on special teams and we're going to stop the run.
Coach feels it, the team feels it and I know I feel it.
BDE: What are some of the less glamorous aspects of playing in the NFL that the average fan doesn't see?
Wroten: Everybody sees the big houses and the fancy rides. But they don't see all the work it takes to get to the NFL and what it takes to maintain your place in the league.
They see you playing on TV on Sunday, but they don't see all the preparation that went into the game. They don't see the grind, the practice and the sweat and blood we put into the game. Most people don't understand how much hard work goes into it.
It's a tough career.
BDE: Tell us about a typical day at training camp.
Wroten: During two-a-days, you wake up at 6 in the morning and go to meetings and breakfast by 7:30.
After practice, I try to get back to the room and take a nap.
Then, we watch film from the first practice and have our second practice around 1 (p.m.). The afternoon practice usually lasts an hour and a half or two hours. We'll watch some more film, eat lunch and get out around 4 (p.m.).
BDE: What's a typical day during the regular season?
Wroten: I wake up at 6 (a.m.) and get to the stadium by 6:30. We eat breakfast and have meetings until 7:15. Then, we have special teams meetings, team meetings and practice a couple of hours until noon.
After lunch, we have a light weight workout and watch film. On the average day, we leave the stadium around 4 (p.m.).
BDE: How is the food at training camp?
Wroten: Most of the time, Missouri food's just not as good as Louisiana food. Sometimes they'll have somebody from one of the St. Louis restaurants come in and cook for us.
Fourth Quarter
Wroten works out regularly at the BHS fieldhouse with NFL tight end Brian Jones and former BHS defensive lineman Jarvis Edmonds.
BDE: You and Brian spend a lot of time at the fieldhouse. How important is it to you to give something back to the community?
Wroten: I feel like it's very important, even if it's just coming back and chillin' with my friends.
A lot of times you hear about people making a cash donation, but you never see them. I like to give back face-to-face.
BDE: You actually gave up football to focus on basketball your junior year of high school. Do you still play basketball?
Wroten: I do a little slamming at the park a couple of days a week with my fat-neck friend Jarvis Edmonds.
Basketball was always my first love. I was just too short and too fat.
But it's all worked out for the good. I've been blessed to have the opportunity to play in the NFL. I've been real blessed.
BDE: Everybody wants to play in the NFL, but so few have the talent or the drive. What advice do you give when you talk to high school football and junior high football players?
Wroten: I know it's kind of hypocritical, but the first thing I tell them is don't do drugs. I tell them to get their grades and to stay focused. Life is not going to go your way all the time.
What you do off the field is going to affect what you do in the long run.
If you do things right off the field, what you do on the field will take care of itself.
******
I wish they had shown a picture of the fieldhouse. It's nICe!