Dallas should learn from Ravens on QB negotiation

[CouchCoach]

BAL has a history of being more defensive minded and I think Jackson surprised Harbaugh to the point he was willing to modify the offense around him.

If I am the GM of that team, there is a combination that concerns me about paying him what he wants, Watson money. The type game he plays with the run and those two skinny legs just waiting for the wrong hit.

 

[DandyDon52]

I guarantee that these Dak hating old Romo diehards would have NEVER demanded the same against Romo. Actually, I know it's true because I was here every day, and the NEVER demanded the same about Romo. They even attacked the handful few who did. Sounds familiar, eh?

AC I dont know about here, but I was at the official cowboy forum and before that trueblue forum, and there were plenty of people
who called romo a choker, and loser, and complained about his salary once he got his big deal.

I came here in summer of 2016, as it turned out was the end of romo's cowboy days.
My first thread here was about dak should be given a chance to compete for starter right before the seattle preseason game.
I said he looked good and could be starting material.
I got blasted lol all sorts of memes making fun of me.
Then romo got hurt and dak was the only one left, and he did do good, and was starting material.

 

[kskboys]

BAL has a history of being more defensive minded and I think Jackson surprised Harbaugh to the point he was willing to modify the offense around him.

If I am the GM of that team, there is a combination that concerns me about paying him what he wants, Watson money. The type game he plays with the run and those two skinny legs just waiting for the wrong hit.

And already starting to have injury issues.

 

[kskboys]

As should the rest of the NFL. Right now, Ari and Den are wishing they could go back in time.

 

[nobody]

I guarantee that these Dak hating old Romo diehards would have NEVER demanded the same against Romo. Actually, I know it's true because I was here every day, and the NEVER demanded the same about Romo. They even attacked the handful few who did. Sounds familiar, eh?

Some of us who supported Romo were against the 100 million contract he was offered who were consistent when they opposed Dak's 40 million per season contract.

In fact, up until his latest choke against the 49ers, I supported Dak as the QB. I don't bash people that believe in Dak, I bash the ones that insult and attack those that don't (or no longer) believe in Dak. They act more like fans of Dak and not fans of the Cowboys. Even worse are the ones that attack people who (fairly) criticize Dak then cry foul when people defend themselves. A lot of the current behavior you see from people against Dak are a direct result of that behavior from a few very vocal Dak supporters. Is all of it? No, of course not.

If Dak restructures and takes less, while I don't think he can get it done at least it will show he's willing to try and get more talent around him and will give him another chance. Unless he does that, he's just really good at saying the right things but not doing them on the field. Off the field, he's a great person. He just doesn't have what it takes to get it done without inordinate ( and near impossible ) amounts of talent around him. However, if MM's offense shows Dak suddenly not making the same mistakes through the first half of the season, I'll give him another chance but temper my expectations and base it on 1) How he does against decent defenses, 2) whether they make the playoffs, and 3) whether he chokes or not in the playoffs (no matter what the rest of the team does. If the defense chokes, it isn't an excuse for him to choke)

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Watson money. The type game he plays with the run and those two skinny legs just waiting for the wrong hit.

I agree CC but I don't they have a problem giving him Watson money per se, just NOT 100% guaranteed. I would go as far as to say that Lamar to the Ravens is like Mahomes to the Chiefs, they are 1000% in with him. He's their guy but he ain't getting a 100% guaranteed contract. There have only been TWO 100% guaranteed contracts in the NFL........what should that tell Lamar?

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

There's no way I'd give Jackson what Watson got.

The Browns ruined things and it's clear the other owners aren't going to follow that path and let it become the norm.

Watson wasn't worth anywhere near the deal he got, and Jackson isn't worth it either.

Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, and maybe Hurts if he has another MVP level seasons are the only QBs right now that should be getting anything close to that Watson contract.

 

[jrumann59]

Dallas should have placed the non-exclusive franchise tag on Dak and let him set the market. If there was one to be set. Instead Dallas did the ultimate Dumbo thing and caved to every demand from Dak and his agent. Including the worse part. No trade clause. This is and was a terrible contract.

Dak is in the same tier of QB as LJ. Middling 10-20. Both have varying skillsets and strengths. Both have poor playoff records. NFL teams apparently don't pay for middling. I have said this from the beginning the Jones boys really messed this one up and now the fans and the team is paying the price. Unfortunately, it is going to get worse before it gets better.

Excerpts:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...t-top-wr-on-market-steelers-get-franchise-lt/

"The franchise tag was designed by NFL owners to prevent key players from becoming available to the rest of the league, specifically quarterbacks and very specifically young quarterbacks at the end of their contracts. Restricting player movement was a hallmark of NFL dynasties for years, until Reggie White busted free agency open. You don't see a player of this caliber hit the market. You just don't!

The idea of Baltimore dangling Jackson to the entire league, and no one having ANY INTEREST WHATSOEVER, is just wild. A 26-year-old former MVP simply DOES NOT become available in the NFL with no interest from other teams.

And not just no interest but a very quick lack of interest from a host of teams who have been aggressively pursuing quarterback solutions for the past 3-5 years.
And yet, when Lamar Jackson became available... not one NFL team is interested?
This is a former MVP we're talking about, one of the most electric athletes in all of professional sports, a legitimate franchise quarterback who turned 26 years old in January.

This is the big one here. Jackson, by all accounts, wants a fully guaranteed deal. The Ravens chose to let the market tell him what his value was and the market magically dried up! We won't ever know what he might be willing to take because teams aren't even floating out offer sheets. A fully guaranteed deal would require matching every dollar in escrow (an antiquated rule from a time when not every NFL owner had hundreds of millions of dollars), which is something even the wealthiest NFL owner doesn't want to deal with (again, more on that in a second). If we're talking max guarantees, that's a potential problem with the salary cap, even though the salary cap more and more appears to clearly be a myth.

Giving up multiple first-round picks is not something NFL teams want to do. Two first-round picks for any NFL player is a fairly steep price, but it's absolutely in line with what we've seen other franchise quarterbacks go for in the trade market recently. The Rams and Broncos gave up similar hauls for Matthew Stafford and Russell Wilson. And this isn't two firsts for a cost-controlled player you would get in the draft.
"

These talking heads are idiots. Ok a former MVP, but a team has to be be 120% sure Lamar will be able to put them into the SB next season and beyond if you are going to give a huge completely guaranteed contract plus give up major draft capital if the Ravens do not match. Signing a guy like Lamar can handicap a team for years if they are not the Ravens. Also Lamar has started to have health issues, and he has not shown that he has the skill set to be pocket passer that can run as opposed to a running back that can pass.

 

[charron]

Lamar needs an agent who knows how to negotiate. He is doing himself a disservice by asking for an extreme (fully guaranteed contract) as there is only 1 team dumb enough to do this so far. Reports are the 2 sides aren't even close and other teams are going to be reluctant to even do a fully guaranteed contract to begin. Most GM's understand the dangers of paying huge money to a running QB as well. I would draft a Lamar but not pay him

 

[darthseinfeld]

Dallas should have placed the non-exclusive franchise tag on Dak and let him set the market. If there was one to be set. Instead Dallas did the ultimate Dumbo thing and caved to every demand from Dak and his agent. Including the worse part. No trade clause. This is and was a terrible contract.

Dak is in the same tier of QB as LJ. Middling 10-20. Both have varying skillsets and strengths. Both have poor playoff records. NFL teams apparently don't pay for middling. I have said this from the beginning the Jones boys really messed this one up and now the fans and the team is paying the price. Unfortunately, it is going to get worse before it gets better.

Excerpts:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...t-top-wr-on-market-steelers-get-franchise-lt/

"The franchise tag was designed by NFL owners to prevent key players from becoming available to the rest of the league, specifically quarterbacks and very specifically young quarterbacks at the end of their contracts. Restricting player movement was a hallmark of NFL dynasties for years, until Reggie White busted free agency open. You don't see a player of this caliber hit the market. You just don't!

The idea of Baltimore dangling Jackson to the entire league, and no one having ANY INTEREST WHATSOEVER, is just wild. A 26-year-old former MVP simply DOES NOT become available in the NFL with no interest from other teams.

And not just no interest but a very quick lack of interest from a host of teams who have been aggressively pursuing quarterback solutions for the past 3-5 years.
And yet, when Lamar Jackson became available... not one NFL team is interested?
This is a former MVP we're talking about, one of the most electric athletes in all of professional sports, a legitimate franchise quarterback who turned 26 years old in January.

This is the big one here. Jackson, by all accounts, wants a fully guaranteed deal. The Ravens chose to let the market tell him what his value was and the market magically dried up! We won't ever know what he might be willing to take because teams aren't even floating out offer sheets. A fully guaranteed deal would require matching every dollar in escrow (an antiquated rule from a time when not every NFL owner had hundreds of millions of dollars), which is something even the wealthiest NFL owner doesn't want to deal with (again, more on that in a second). If we're talking max guarantees, that's a potential problem with the salary cap, even though the salary cap more and more appears to clearly be a myth.

Giving up multiple first-round picks is not something NFL teams want to do. Two first-round picks for any NFL player is a fairly steep price, but it's absolutely in line with what we've seen other franchise quarterbacks go for in the trade market recently. The Rams and Broncos gave up similar hauls for Matthew Stafford and Russell Wilson. And this isn't two firsts for a cost-controlled player you would get in the draft.
"

Yes because the Ravens are doing such a great job there. They could have still traded him with the exclusive tag amd gotten more

 

[DandyDon52]

I agree CC but I don't they have a problem giving him Watson money per se, just NOT 100% guaranteed. I would go as far as to say that Lamar to the Ravens is like Mahomes to the Chiefs, they are 1000% in with him. He's their guy but he ain't getting a 100% guaranteed contract. There have only been TWO 100% guaranteed contracts in the NFL........what should that tell Lamar?

that tells me lamar knows he could get injured bad since he runs so much, and if he ever cant run that good anymore the team might let him go
or trade him.
Also Lamar is not that bright, and he evidently doesnt want to pay for an agent!! lol
That is dumb, and he is just asking for the moon because he is ok playing on the tag till someone gives him a watson deal.

Thing is doesnt realize mmmmmmost other teams are not as dumb as cleveland, so no one else is going to give a watson deal.
His demands are unrealistic, and could cost him later on.
He should be looking for a reasonable deal, or play on the tag and see what happens.

 

[atlantacowboy]

It’s hard to negotiate when you are doing it for yourself from the tub. An agent would have gotten him a new deal already.

Oh common. Give Jerry some credit. He's doing it from his yacht not a tub.

 

[Vinnie2u]

Owners don’t want to fully guarantee contracts. Cleveland messed up the works. Baltimore is
Going to fall on the sword to get things back to where the owners want them.

 

[jazzcat22]

Dallas should have placed the non-exclusive franchise tag on Dak and let him set the market. If there was one to be set. Instead Dallas did the ultimate Dumbo thing and caved to every demand from Dak and his agent. Including the worse part. No trade clause. This is and was a terrible contract.

Dak is in the same tier of QB as LJ. Middling 10-20. Both have varying skillsets and strengths. Both have poor playoff records. NFL teams apparently don't pay for middling. I have said this from the beginning the Jones boys really messed this one up and now the fans and the team is paying the price. Unfortunately, it is going to get worse before it gets better.

Excerpts:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...t-top-wr-on-market-steelers-get-franchise-lt/

"The franchise tag was designed by NFL owners to prevent key players from becoming available to the rest of the league, specifically quarterbacks and very specifically young quarterbacks at the end of their contracts. Restricting player movement was a hallmark of NFL dynasties for years, until Reggie White busted free agency open. You don't see a player of this caliber hit the market. You just don't!

The idea of Baltimore dangling Jackson to the entire league, and no one having ANY INTEREST WHATSOEVER, is just wild. A 26-year-old former MVP simply DOES NOT become available in the NFL with no interest from other teams.

And not just no interest but a very quick lack of interest from a host of teams who have been aggressively pursuing quarterback solutions for the past 3-5 years.
And yet, when Lamar Jackson became available... not one NFL team is interested?
This is a former MVP we're talking about, one of the most electric athletes in all of professional sports, a legitimate franchise quarterback who turned 26 years old in January.

This is the big one here. Jackson, by all accounts, wants a fully guaranteed deal. The Ravens chose to let the market tell him what his value was and the market magically dried up! We won't ever know what he might be willing to take because teams aren't even floating out offer sheets. A fully guaranteed deal would require matching every dollar in escrow (an antiquated rule from a time when not every NFL owner had hundreds of millions of dollars), which is something even the wealthiest NFL owner doesn't want to deal with (again, more on that in a second). If we're talking max guarantees, that's a potential problem with the salary cap, even though the salary cap more and more appears to clearly be a myth.

Giving up multiple first-round picks is not something NFL teams want to do. Two first-round picks for any NFL player is a fairly steep price, but it's absolutely in line with what we've seen other franchise quarterbacks go for in the trade market recently. The Rams and Broncos gave up similar hauls for Matthew Stafford and Russell Wilson. And this isn't two firsts for a cost-controlled player you would get in the draft.
"

How could they learn from the Ravens when Dak's contract was up 3 years ago?
I do agree they should have placed the non-exclusive tag on Dak. I said that at the time.

I think in this case the Ravens learned from the Cowboys.

 

[jazzcat22]

AC I dont know about here, but I was at the official cowboy forum and before that trueblue forum, and there were plenty of people
who called romo a choker, and loser, and complained about his salary once he got his big deal.

I came here in summer of 2016, as it turned out was the end of romo's cowboy days.
My first thread here was about dak should be given a chance to compete for starter right before the seattle preseason game.
I said he looked good and could be starting material.
I got blasted lol all sorts of memes making fun of me.
Then romo got hurt and dak was the only one left, and he did do good, and was starting material.

So you are the one that jinxed Tony. J/K.

 

[McKDaddy]

Dude...can you not put the pieces together?

Jerry is using reverse psychology by making bad mistakes on purpose so Stephen learns quicker and those mistakes fester in Stephens head so that when Stephen takes the helm he can navigate with ease.

DUH

And then Stephen will be the best son at correcting mistakes that he's ever been around!!!

There is balance in the universe!!

 

[McKDaddy]

The Ravens have clearly learned from others mistakes and aren't going down a road just because "he's the next QB up for a contract". Imagine being able to think for yourself and place a value on something rather than just follow along with whatever value someone else put on a somewhat similar item.

 

[aikemirv]

The price was good. We see that now as Dak is a bargain at 40 million. Sadly.

the trade clause was a mistake I agree. I do like what the Ravens are doing here. But someone could come in with two low first round picks and take him. Im not sure they care.

Bargain? In what way? To compare to Daniel Jones?

I mean I just don't understand how you can say 40 mill is any kind of a bargain when Cooper Rush went 4-1 with this team.

He flopped against the 49's - Rush could have done that!

 

[Jake]

Dallas should have placed the non-exclusive franchise tag on Dak and let him set the market. If there was one to be set. Instead Dallas did the ultimate Dumbo thing and caved to every demand from Dak and his agent. Including the worse part. No trade clause. This is and was a terrible contract.

I agree and said as much at the time. The Cowboys negotiated against themselves because of their inflated view of Dak. They thought they could work a better deal, from the Cowboys perspective, than what another team would offer him. They overpaid yet convinced themselves that they got a bargain.

To this day they still think he can win a SB and Jerry's even gone so far as to make absurd Brady comparisons. We must not be watching the same quarterback, especially come playoff time. Worse, they're going to extend this relationship in the near future. I hope he proves them right, but I doubt he will.

 

[Loso86]

The price was good. We see that now as Dak is a bargain at 40 million. Sadly.

the trade clause was a mistake I agree. I do like what the Ravens are doing here. But someone could come in with two low first round picks and take him. Im not sure they care.

Dak has a good contract