Dan Campbell admits the Lions were trying to confuse the Cowboys

CowboyFrog

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The only thing illegal is that the officials announced that 70 declared as eligible and 68 caught the pass as an ineligible receiver. (It also caused an illegal formation.) So no, it was not a legal play based on the number announced by the officials.

Should it have been a legal play is hard to say. Detroit tried subterfuge but there seems to be a clear process for reporting as eligible and it's unclear how well the Lions followed it. The league says there's no reason to change the process. I somewhat agree, although I would require the player reporting to also say his number, such as 68 reporting, as well as use the hand signal (swiping the jersey) that indicates a reporting player.
the spirit of the rule is not for the defense to not know who is eligible, its so if you go heavy you still have more than 1 eligible reciever the D has to account for...they tried to trick everyone and it backfired. That is why in the end the only eligible OL is the one the refs announce so the D is not in the dark on who can go out into a route...
 

mrmojo

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But the defense didn't have to cover 70 once the offensive alignment made him ineligible. Yet Bell stayed with him. He didn't have to and could have helped out elsewhere. That's the "in the moment" adjustment he was talking about.
But if 70 was announced as eligible who would the defense cover? They still wouldn't have covered 68 because he wasn't announced as eligible.
 

CowboyFrog

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But if 70 was announced as eligible who would the defense cover? They still wouldn't have covered 68 because he wasn't announced as eligible.
exactly, ill take my chances that the refs cant get away with letting an ineligible OL catch the ball as opposed to them not calling an illegal formation that we all know they are not gonna change.
 

MarcusRock

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But if 70 was announced as eligible who would the defense cover? They still wouldn't have covered 68 because he wasn't announced as eligible.
Correct. But after the formation shift, 70 was ineligible and didn't need to be covered and Bell could have played rover to help out anywhere there was a need. That's the "in the moment" recognition I'm talking about. In their alignment, Bell could have shifted left because most of the actual eligible receivers were on that side and the RB only had 1 man to beat if Goff went that way.

Honestly, I would steal part of this from Campbell and have someone (actually) report, then shift alignment so that he's not eligible to potentially take 1 man away from the defense defending him for no reason. This actually worked on Bell. Lucky the wrong guy was announced.
 

gimmesix

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the spirit of the rule is not for the defense to not know who is eligible, its so if you go heavy you still have more than 1 eligible reciever the D has to account for...they tried to trick everyone and it backfired. That is why in the end the only eligible OL is the one the refs announce so the D is not in the dark on who can go out into a route...
This is true, but they were depending on the defense to get it wrong despite the number being announced. I don't really have a problem with that. If the number is announced and the defense covers the wrong player, it deserves whatever happens. But it is the offense's responsibility to make it clear to the ref who is reporting, and that's where Detroit tried subterfuge and it failed.

If 68 had been the only player to go up to the ref, say he was reporting and making the appropriate gesture, then there would have been nothing wrong with Detroit trying to fool Dallas by also bringing in the player who had been reporting eligible throughout the game to get the Cowboys to think he was the eligible receiver again.
 

Cowboys22

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Was the play legal or not? Did the Lions do anything against the rules? If not, then maybe the rules need to be changed.
Yes and no. It would have been perfectly legal if 68 had been reported to the defense as an eligible receiver. Once 70 was reported eligible, it meant 68 was illegally downfield, illegally was the first to touch a pass, and 70 was lined up in an illegal formation. It all comes down to exactly what the 3 OL did before the snap and why Allen interpreted it as 70 reporting as eligible. Did he just screw up or did theirs attempt at deception go so far as to actually deceive the ref. Whatever the case, the refs got it right after the fact by calling the penalty. No way they could let it stand after announcing 70 as eligible.
 

CowboyFrog

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This is true, but they were depending on the defense to get it wrong despite the number being announced. I don't really have a problem with that. If the number is announced and the defense covers the wrong player, it deserves whatever happens. But it is the offense's responsibility to make it clear to the ref who is reporting, and that's where Detroit tried subterfuge and it failed.

If 68 had been the only player to go up to the ref, say he was reporting and making the appropriate gesture, then there would have been nothing wrong with Detroit trying to fool Dallas by also bringing in the player who had been reporting eligible throughout the game to get the Cowboys to think he was the eligible receiver again.
100% agree if they cover the wrong guy that is 100% on the D
 

gimmesix

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Correct. But after the formation shift, 70 was ineligible and didn't need to be covered and Bell could have played rover to help out anywhere there was a need. That's the "in the moment" recognition I'm talking about. In their alignment, Bell could have shifted left because most of the actual eligible receivers were on that side and the RB only had 1 man to beat if Goff went that way.
I still think you are expecting too much from the defense. Point out an example where a defense didn't put coverage on an eligible receiver because he was in an ineligible spot. I don't think you'll find one or if you do, it would be rare.
 

MarcusRock

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I still think you are expecting too much from the defense. Point out an example where a defense didn't put coverage on an eligible receiver because he was in an ineligible spot. I don't think you'll find one or if you do, it would be rare.
I have high standards for my defense. Get that bum Quinn out of there, insert me and the defense's IQ goes up immediately. Lol.
 

Jumbo075

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Deception is part of the game; it’s not cheating to dry to deceive the opponent. Subterfuge is necessary for success. But it didn’t work.

People accusing the Lions of trying to cheat need to calm down. But after it didn’t work, Campbell should have been smart and kicked the extra point.
 

pentatwirl

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Correct. But after the formation shift, 70 was ineligible and didn't need to be covered and Bell could have played rover to help out anywhere there was a need. That's the "in the moment" recognition I'm talking about. In their alignment, Bell could have shifted left because most of the actual eligible receivers were on that side and the RB only had 1 man to beat if Goff went that way.
But if 70 proceeds to catch the ball and the refs don't call the penalty, that seems to be asking for trouble that cannot be reviewed.
 

CT Dal Fan

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Now will all media morons that called Dallas' win a mistake (hello Boomer Esiason, Cris Collinsworth, etc.) backtrack on their idiotic statements during Sunday's games?

I doubt it.
 

pentatwirl

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Deception is part of the game; it’s not cheating to dry to deceive the opponent. Subterfuge is necessary for success. But it didn’t work.

People accusing the Lions of trying to cheat need to calm down. But after it didn’t work, Campbell should have been smart and kicked the extra point.
Not sure the league permits deceiving opponents to the extent we'd think. There's an Athletic article that mentions how the details of Detroit's attempt to pretend to report eligible are likely dangerously close to the rule against simulating substitutions, which is also to prevent attempts to confuse the defense. Here's an old article on the substitution rule that we were flagged for in 2017. https://www.footballzebras.com/2017...stitution-call-will-now-come-after-a-warning/
 

Starstruck22

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Not sure the league permits deceiving opponents to the extent we'd think. There's an Athletic article that mentions how the details of Detroit's attempt to pretend to report eligible are likely dangerously close to the rule against simulating substitutions, which is also to prevent attempts to confuse the defense. Here's an old article on the substitution rule that we were flagged for in 2017. https://www.footballzebras.com/2017...stitution-call-will-now-come-after-a-warning/
This is tantamount to cheating. Subverting clear and established rules is cheating. Using deceptive plays that do not subvert rules are acceptable.
 

MarcusRock

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But if 70 proceeds to catch the ball and the refs don't call the penalty, that seems to be asking for trouble that cannot be reviewed.
But it happened on the other side of the line exactly that way and the refs did throw the flag.
 

pete026

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This brings up a thing that has always concerned me:

When a QB thinks they have drawn the defense offsides and just chucks the ball up for grabs.

What if the ref is calling an illegal formation or illegal shift on the offense? Not really a free play. Fortunately most presnap offensive penalties stop the play, but not all.
 
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