Dan Campbell admits the Lions were trying to confuse the Cowboys

[DStar22]

yeah 68 is in the refs face motioning he's the eligible one is the deceptive one, yet 70 isn't within five yards of the ref not motioning is the eligible, reason and common sense escapes you ....70 reported 6 times during the game, 68 usually lines up on the right side, the ref seen 70 jogging onto the field and assumed he was the eligible again since he was 6 times during the game the ref made the mistake, go watch the videos, it's clear,....EVERY TEAM uses deception on dozens of plays per game, are you new to football, you need the league and a coach to tell you that???

WITHIN the Confines of the rules, they can use deception.... this is not that.

 

[gimmesix]

Ok well fine them and not the refs, they made sure the refs couldn't do a playoff game this year, reinstate them!

I don't think it is quite that simple. If 68 said that he was reporting and made the appropriate signal, then the ref should have acknowledged that. If 70 did not say he was reporting and make the appropriate hand signal, then he should not have been announced as eligible. That's on the ref.

If 70 made the hand signal, even though he didn't report, and 68 did not (or did it subtly so it wouldn't be noticed by our team), then that's completely on them even if 68 said "Report."

 

[Cowboys22]

I don't think it is quite that simple. If 68 said that he was reporting and made the appropriate signal, then the ref should have acknowledged that. If 70 did not say he was reporting and make the appropriate hand signal, then he should not have been announced as eligible. That's on the ref.

If 70 made the hand signal, even though he didn't report, and 68 did not (or did it subtly so it wouldn't be noticed by our team), then that's completely on them even if 68 said "Report."

That’s been my point. Both 68 and 70 purposely did things to try and confuse Dallas. They thought they had explained it to the refs before the game and the refs would understand and go along with it. That completely shady right there. Problem was that Allan wasn’t in on the pregame meeting and interpreted everything that happened as 70 reporting as eligible. But for their attempt to skirt the rules a create confusion, they may have won. Although, if 68 had been announced, he likely would have been covered.

 

[MarcusRock]

I don't think it is quite that simple. If 68 said that he was reporting and made the appropriate signal, then the ref should have acknowledged that. If 70 did not say he was reporting and make the appropriate hand signal, then he should not have been announced as eligible. That's on the ref.

If 70 made the hand signal, even though he didn't report, and 68 did not (or did it subtly so it wouldn't be noticed by our team), then that's completely on them even if 68 said "Report."

But where is "the hand signal" in the rules? I haven't seen it. The rules only say a player changing his status "must immediately report" but doesn't say how one is to do that. Perhaps a hand gesture is "customary" but by letter of the law, you only need to "report" and do so immediately. 68 was in the vicinity of the ref first for sure.

 

[Thorn]

I haven't seen ONE fan upset we won.

I am not upset at all, just shocked our defense didn’t recognize the formation. Hell, I will take a win any way we get it. In the end all that matters is W or L

 

[CowboyFrog]

I am not upset at all, just shocked our defense didn’t recognize the formation. Hell, I will take a win any way we get it. In the end all that matters is W or L

again this is the main point, the defense HAS TO cover the OL who was reported eligible by the refs...formation doesn't matter here..no other OL can touch the ball. Had the refs called 70# eligible and the Cowboys thought it was really #68 then if the ball goes to #70 its a TD...

 

[G2]

What gets me that they tried the 2 pointer 3 times, kick the FG...

And went for it on 4th and failed to get at least 3

 

[MarcusRock]

again this is the main point, the defense HAS TO cover the OL who was reported eligible by the refs...formation doesn't matter here..no other OL can touch the ball. Had the refs called 70# eligible and the Cowboys thought it was really #68 then if the ball goes to #70 its a TD...

But the defense didn't have to cover 70 once the offensive alignment made him ineligible. Yet Bell stayed with him. He didn't have to and could have helped out elsewhere. That's the "in the moment" adjustment he was talking about.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

That's projection at work. The only ones upset at hearing the logic around what most likely happened here are the "refs are out to get us crowd" who now know that they can't use that excuse anymore because the refs suck for EVERYONE, not just us. That's why you hear the refs are "blameless" here.

Well I don't think that proves the refs aren't out to get us. I don't know if they are honestly. There's more than one ref crew. Maybe some hold a grudge. I don't know. It's hard to not question the intercity of officiating when you have guys like Tim Donaghy admitting as much. But to me it's clear for whatever reason the Cowboys get hosed at times by the refs. Maybe every fanbase feels that way. Either way we were on the good side of it this time and I have no complaints or apologies lol.

I am not upset at all, just shocked our defense didn’t recognize the formation. Hell, I will take a win any way we get it. In the end all that matters is W or L

I'm not even shocked. How many times over the years have we seen left tackles score touchdowns? Or defensive players like JJ Watt? It happens. Maybe more than it really does but it for sure happens.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

What gets me that they tried the 2 pointer 3 times, kick the FG...

Yeah I mean I don't get how that fanbase can get mad knowing that you tried a 2 point conversion not only 3 times but one of them included doing it from the 7 yard line. We'd kill McCarthy for that.

 

[gimmesix]

But where is "the hand signal" in the rules? I haven't seen it. The rules only say a player changing his status "must immediately report" but doesn't say how one is to do that. Perhaps a hand gesture is "customary" but by letter of the law, you only need to "report" and do so immediately. 68 was in the vicinity of the ref first for sure.

It has been mentioned in various stories that it is part of the requirement. I'll try to look some of them up and provide them. If nothing else, it seems to be how they have defined the rule to immediately report.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

This 2 pt debacle is sooo last year!!

I see what you did there

 

[MarcusRock]

It has been mentioned in various stories that it is part of the requirement. I'll try to look some of them up and provide them. If nothing else, it seems to be how they have defined the rule to immediately report.

Perhaps it's a "neighborhood play" like in baseball where something comes to be customary and assumed. Similarly, the delay of game penalty has about a half second delay built into it so refs can turn their heads to see if the ball is being snapped and that too is nowhere in the rulebook.

 

[CowboyFrog]

But the defense didn't have to cover 70 once the offensive alignment made him ineligible. Yet Bell stayed with him. He didn't have to and could have helped out elsewhere. That's the "in the moment" adjustment he was talking about.

if the refs let the 2 point convo stand when it goes to an OL who was not reported eligible then you have an easy recourse, if the refs miss an illegal formation well not so much...

 

[MarcusRock]

Well I don't think that proves the refs aren't out to get us. I don't know if they are honestly. There's more than one ref crew. Maybe some hold a grudge. I don't know. It's hard to not question the intercity of officiating when you have guys like Tim Donaghy admitting as much. But to me it's clear for whatever reason the Cowboys get hosed at times by the refs. Maybe every fanbase feels that way. Either way we were on the good side of it this time and I have no complaints or apologies lol.

Lol. This ref crew certainly wasn't. They just can't get everything right like a lot do. And what would refs have to hold a grudge against us anyway? 28 years of not winning the big one aren't enough to satisfy any grudges?

 

[Birch_Wood]

Was the play legal or not? Did the Lions do anything against the rules? If not, then maybe the rules need to be changed.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Lol. This ref crew certainly wasn't. They just can't get everything right like a lot do. And what would refs have to hold a grudge against us anyway? 28 years of not winning the big one aren't enough to satisfy any grudges?

I don't have the answers. Like I said I don't know what it is. Maybe it is incompetence on their part. Or maybe the job is hard. Because it is. I can live with refs making mistakes human error is a part of sports. But I can't sit here and ignore the times penalties get called on us. Its not the amount its the times.The times they conveniently miss tripping calls or holding calls......

But I'm also a believer is unfortunately you have to make your own luck and make up for bad officiating calls. It sucks but some teams have to do it. Detroit does....Dallas for sure does....if the Lions don't throw 2 picks they don't have to rely on 3 failed 2 point conversions to win a game.

 

[gimmesix]

Perhaps it's a "neighborhood play" like in baseball where something comes to be customary and assumed. Similarly, the delay of game penalty has about a half second delay built into it so refs can turn their heads to see if the ball is being snapped and that too is nowhere in the rulebook.

It makes some sense. Just having a player run up and say, "Report," like 68 says that he did, could cause problems because of crowd noise, other things the ref is dealing with, etc. If they say, "Report," and make a gesture that also indicates reporting, there's less chance of a mistake.

I think in this case, based on what I've seen and read, 68 said report (and 58 may also have been trying to report, according to some reports), but if 68 made the gesture, it was subtle and may have been partially blocked by 58. Then, 70, who had been reporting, came jogging toward the ref with his hands moving in front of him, possibly to fool Dallas into thinking he was reporting, and the ref took that to mean he was the player reporting. It's interesting to read to me because of the intricacies involved.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Was the play legal or not? Did the Lions do anything against the rules? If not, then maybe the rules need to be changed.

They threw the ball to an ineligible reciever and had illegal formation because the OL who was reported was covered by the OL they wanted to be reported.

 

[gimmesix]

Was the play legal or not? Did the Lions do anything against the rules? If not, then maybe the rules need to be changed.

The only thing illegal is that the officials announced that 70 declared as eligible and 68 caught the pass as an ineligible receiver. (It also caused an illegal formation.) So no, it was not a legal play based on the number announced by the officials.

Should it have been a legal play is hard to say. Detroit tried subterfuge but there seems to be a clear process for reporting as eligible and it's unclear how well the Lions followed it. The league says there's no reason to change the process. I somewhat agree, although I would require the player reporting to also say his number, such as 68 reporting, as well as use the hand signal (swiping the jersey) that indicates a reporting player.