Darren Woodson on Cowboys huddle, said 2 things everyone agrees with

[Viper]

Rat playing in the middle was one of the bright spots on this team, yeah let's change it.

 

[theogt]

Not so much. Rat is not a down lineman who gets a big interior push. Is he exceptional at beating blocks, taking advantage of that first step? Sure.

It is about more than a "double team run up the middle." That's only a part of the equation. Taking some of the plays and not allowing opposing passers a clean pocket is more the issue.

If nothing else, acquiring another quality performer there to limit Jay's snaps would be fine. It would only enhance the quality of play up front. I would not necessarily be resigned in thinking we could not land that type of performer.

He gets up the middle of the field doesn't he? That's collapsing the pocket. It's pretty straightforward (no pun intended), I think even you can handle this one.

 

[Rush 2112]

just my point, look at the dominating defenses, either 4-3 or 3-4, they had a dominating DT or NT

cowboys in 90;s Leon Lett
bears with wiliam the refrigerator
ravens with 2 big DTS
and just like a guy said, the ravens got Hatolai, and he helped keep the offensive linemen off of Ray Lewis,

and if darren woodson whom happens to have played the pro football game, said this team needs a big NT to keep offensive linemen off of middle linebackers and that the cowboys also need to go get another linebacker if zach thomas leaves,

then yesssssssss, this team need a dominating big huge NT

that will allow the defensive ends and ware to pressure the QB and runners, because with that big NT you cant run up the middle

now there are 2 big NTs coming out of boston college,

and a few more, I would draft one, let ratliff play NT some, along with letting ratliff play some DE

this would also help out the safeties in run support

I'll take Ratliff all day every day vs Leon Lett.

Ratliff has 15.5 sacks in 4 years.

Leon had 22.5 in 10 years.

 

[scottsp]

He gets up the middle of the field doesn't he? That's collapsing the pocket. It's pretty straightforward (no pun intended), I think even you can handle this one.

When Jay beats the block, sure. He's very good at getting up the field. What I am referring to, is the player who can walk interior blockers down. We don't possess that capability. Though, Jay does hold his ground when he doesn't get off blocks.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Jay Ratliff fan. I simply believe this area of the defense can improve. I am a big believer in fortifying areas at the POA - both sides of the ball.

Call me crazy, but I would think an additional disruptive presence at the nose, perhaps someone with a different skill set to complement what's already in place, would only help.

 

[BigDFan5]

I'll take Ratliff all day every day vs Leon Lett.

Ratliff has 15.5 sacks in 4 years.

Leon had 22.5 in 10 years.

Hey but he weighed 16 more pounds than Ratliff, and we all know 16 pounds > Sacks anyday

 

[theogt]

When Jay beats the block, sure. He's very good at getting up the field. What I am referring to, is the player who can walk interior blockers down. We don't possess that capability. Though, Jay does hold his ground when he doesn't get off blocks.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Jay Ratliff fan. I simply believe this area of the defense can improve. I am a big believer in fortifying areas at the POA - both sides of the ball.

Call me crazy, but I would think an additional disruptive presence at the nose, perhaps someone with a different skill set to complement what's already in place, would only help.

He gets upfield more than just about any other 3-4 NT in the game. I don't care how you think he does it, he does it and that's all that matters. His play was one of the major reasons we led the league with 59 sacks.

/discussion

 

[big dog cowboy]

Call me crazy, but I would think an additional disruptive presence at the nose, perhaps someone with a different skill set to complement what's already in place, would only help.

That's not crazy. That's being smart.

 

[scottsp]

He gets upfield more than just about any other 3-4 NT in the game. I don't care how you think he does it, he does it and that's all that matters. His play was one of the major reasons we led the league with 59 sacks.

I don't particularly care about sacks totals or Pro Bowls. Pressure that may not necessarily register with sacks, but forcing turnovers. In our case, a high number of sacks did not translate into an impact defensive unit.

Fortifying a defense at the POA, inside-out, is something near and dear to my heart. I wouldn't get too caught up in Jay's style of play. No one is disputing his contribution. He's exceptional at what he does.

 

[DeaconBlues]

He gets upfield more than just about any other 3-4 NT in the game. I don't care how you think he does it, he does it and that's all that matters. His play was one of the major reasons we led the league with 59 sacks.

/discussion

No, thats not all that matters. As well a Ratliff plays, he is too small to play every down, and isn't as effective in run situations as he is on passing downs. Dallas needs another good NT to spell him; just getting another body isn't going to work (see JOHNSON, TANK, 2008).

 

[theogt]

No, thats not all that matters. As well a Ratliff plays, he is too small to play every down, and isn't as effective in run situations as he is on passing downs. Dallas needs another good NT to spell him; just getting another body isn't going to work (see JOHNSON, TANK, 2008).

You're attacking the wrong argument. The guy said that we need another NT to get better push up the middle. I have no qualms with getting a rotational guy, but to think we're going to get someone that gets better push up the middle is a little too optimistic (or just ignorant).

 

[Rack]

You want a nose tackle that can get more interior pressure than Jay Ratliff?

He means someone that can drive the center/guard into the QB's face, not someone that can defeat a block and get to the QB himself.


I agree with him. Not complaining about Rat, but he'd be an even better play at DE then he is at NG.

 

[theogt]

He means someone that can drive the center/guard into the QB's face, not someone that can defeat a block and get to the QB himself.


I agree with him. Not complaining about Rat, but he'd be an even better play at DE then he is at NG.

It doesn't matter how the pressure gets there, as long as the pressure is getting there. Whether he's pushing the center into the QB or beating the center altogether doesn't matter (actually the latter is much better than the former).

 

[scottsp]

He means someone that can drive the center/guard into the QB's face, not someone that can defeat a block and get to the QB himself.


I agree with him. Not complaining about Rat, but he'd be an even better play at DE then he is at NG.

Absolutely. I would love to see this defense maximize Jay's versatility.

 

[Rack]

It doesn't matter how the pressure gets there, as long as the pressure is getting there. Whether he's pushing the center into the QB or beating the center altogether doesn't matter (actually the latter is much better than the former).

The latter isn't necessarily better. Nothing bother a QBs more then a lineman getting pushed into his face.


You can side step a rusher coming at you, but QBs don't usually try to side step their own lineman getting pushed backwards.

 

[DeaconBlues]

You're attacking the wrong argument. The guy said that we need another NT to get better push up the middle. I have no qualms with getting a rotational guy, but to think we're going to get someone that gets better push up the middle is a little too optimistic (or just ignorant).

I am looking at it as the same argument. I don't want Rat replaced, but we do need someone else out there. Teams attacked the middle when Johnson was out there. Fourth quarters were particularly bad.

I didn't hear Woodson's comments, but I bet he was referring to plays when Ratliff wasn't there, and late in games.

 

[theogt]

The latter isn't necessarily better. Nothing bother a QBs more then a lineman getting pushed into his face.


You can side step a rusher coming at you, but QBs don't usually try to side step their own lineman getting pushed backwards.

Well, I believe I remember reading that Ratliff led the team in QB pressures. Good luck finding another 3-4 NT that can do that.

 

[theogt]

I am looking at it as the same argument.

They're different arguments, one of which I actually agree with, so I don't know why you'd do that. In any event, we appear to agree, so moving right along.

 

[Rack]

Well, I believe I remember reading that Ratliff led the team in QB pressures. Good luck finding another 3-4 NT that can do that.

Why does the NT have to lead the team in pressures? We don't have to have a NG that can lead the team in pressures.

My point is Ratliff (although he was amazing last season) would be even BETTER at DE. Especially lined up next to Ware. It would help keep teams from doubling Ware and/or open up some blitzing lanes from the opposite side.

 

[theogt]

Why does the NT have to lead the team in pressures? We don't have to have a NG that can lead the team in pressures.

The guy I was arguing with said that we needed a NT that could get better pressure up the middle. I'm saying you're not going to find a better one than Ratliff.

For some reason, you seem to think that my original statements ridiculing this scott guy applied to some other argument you've made. They don't.

 

[Rack]

The guy I was arguing with said that we needed a NT that could get better pressure up the middle. I'm saying you're not going to find a better one than Ratliff.

For some reason, you seem to think that my original statements ridiculing this scott guy applied to some other argument you've made. They don't.

Ok I'm lost now.


I'm saying we could use a bigger NG that can help tie up more blockers in the run game but still prove some push up the middle as a pass rush. Would he be as good as Ratliff as a pass rusher? Most likely not, but we don't need him to be.


I agree that we most likely wouldn't find a better pass rushing NG then Ratliff. I'm just looking at the big picture here.