David DeCastro may not be worth a first round pick

[burmafrd]

Speaking of positively silly, what a dumb thing to say. How could you possibly draw that conclusion? That doesn't even make any sense.

Unless you're trying to say that people who question if that's too high for a guard are just stupid.

well they are. If you have a player that the consensus says only comes around every five years or so bypassing him to take the flavor of the month IS STUPID.

 

[SDogo]

Not even going to read the thread, the title spews enough stupidity.

 

[cowboy_ron]

I'm curious where the Cowboys would rank DeCastro vs players like Poe and Ingram and how big is the gap between the three of them.

I've wondered that too

 

[realtick]

Speaking of positively silly, what a dumb thing to say. How could you possibly draw that conclusion? That doesn't even make any sense.

Unless you're trying to say that people who question if that's too high for a guard are just stupid.

The point has been made several times that you should not take an OG at a spot like #14 because it would be considered too high according to recent draft convention (over the past 10 years).

That's silly.

What does the fact that some team chose not to take an OG in the Top 15 in 2006 have to due with the prospects available in 2012 and the current needs of each respective team?

The roulette analogy is apt because the gambler who says "I'm not gonna put my chip on 34 because its hit that number three times already in the past five spins..." is utilizing the same type of bunk rationale of someone who says "nobody has taken an OG higher than #17 (or whatever it was) in the past decade, so taking DeCastro at #14 in this draft is too high." The numbers on a roulette wheel have no relational value to one another, and neither does David DeCastro to any other previous gaurd that was available in past draft.

If the Cowboys don't select DeCastro at #14, let it be because they feel there is a better prospect available at that spot, and not simply because other NFL teams haven't chosen an OG that high in the past decade.

 

[InmanRoshi]

This is the issue that I have as well.

I would actually prefer to take that elite pass rusher because I think I can get a quality OG to get the job done in the 2nd.

The issue is that I don't really see that elite pass rusher in this draft. Or CB necessarily (outside of maybe Claiborne). But, we do have an elite OG in this draft who could fall to 14..

An "elite" pass rusher, by your definition, wouldn't ever make it to #14 because your definition of "elite" is "has absolutely no risks or flaws". That type of pass rusher goes in the Top 5 picks, because pass rushers are vastly more important than offensive guards and teams would never let a "once in a 5 years player" at that position fall out of the Top 5. That doesn't mean there aren't elite pass rushers available at #14. You just have to take on a bit more risk to get one, like the Giants did when they drafted Jason Pierre Paul #15 with 6 career starts. For instance, the Cowboys might have to take someone like Whitney Mercilus #14 because he's risky because he's merely put up absolutely insane production for only one year of college while putting up Jason Piere Paul measurables in the Combine.

The difference is some people want risk aversion and DeCastro carries very little risk even if he won't have much impact on the games compared to other positions. I'm for taking more risk to find more rare and impactful player, because you don't have the chance to get a Top 15 player often.

I would also like to point out that a lot of the same people who say there's no pass rushers worth #14 this year are the same people who said JJ Watt wasn't special enough to deserve a Top 10 pick last year and didn't think Aldon Smith was that great coming out of Mizzou. Certain people seem to be incredibly bear-ish and skeptical on pass rushers leading up to the draft.

 

[realtick]

An "elite" pass rusher, by your definition, wouldn't ever make it to #14 because your definition of "elite" is "has absolutely no risks or flaws". That type of pass rusher goes in the Top 5 picks, because pass rushers are vastly more important than offensive guards and teams would never let a "once in a 5 years player" at that position fall out of the Top 5. That doesn't mean there aren't elite pass rushers available at #14. You just have to take on a bit more risk to get one, like the Giants did when they drafted Jason Pierre Paul #15 with 6 career starts. For instance, the Cowboys might have to take someone like Whitney Mercilus #14 because he's risky because he's merely put up absolutely insane production for only one year of college while putting up Jason Piere Paul measurables in the Combine.

The difference is some people want risk aversion and DeCastro carries very little risk even if he won't have much impact on the games compared to other positions. I'm for taking more risk to find more rare and impactful player, because you don't have the chance to get a Top 15 player often.

I would also be remiss to point out that a lot of the same people who say there's no pass rushers worth #14 this year are the same people who said JJ Watt wasn't special enough to deserve a Top 10 pick last year.

Tony Romo just spun out of the tackle of an onrushing DT that was just olay'd by one of our OGs, to say "hi."

BTW, I thought J.J. Watt was worth selecting at last year, and I also don't think there is a pass rusher in this draft that's worth taking a risk at #14.

 

[BAT]

More to the point of how guards aren't difference makers, we had maybe the greatest offensive guard in the history of the game and our offensive lines still sucked to high heaven for a large part of his career. It doesn't matter how dominant he is, at the end a guard still only blocks one man out of 6, 7 or 8 man defensive front, and he rarely matches up against a premium difference maker on another team's defense like a left tackle does on an elite weakside pass rusher.

This needs to be stickied somewhere.

 

[realtick]

This needs to be stickied somewhere.

Why BAT? It's way offbase.

An OG "still only blocks one man out of 6, 7 or 8 man defensive front, and he rarely matches up against a premium difference maker..."

Really?

How many players does an OT block? Seven or eight?

Part of what makes Brees so successful has been his o-lines' ability to keep him clean and step up into the pocket. Romo is consistently flushed out and under pressure; how many times did we see him try to spin his way out of pressure from a defender coming right up the gut?

There are plenty of talented defensive tackles in this game that need to be handled by interior linemen. Further, the success of a running attack starts and finishes with the ability of the interior linemen to get push. That's something this team has been sorely lacking unless you've enjoyed watching our RBs get touched and tripped up 2-yards behind the line of scrimmage on a regular basis.

 

[BAT]

Why BAT? It's way offbase.

An OG "still only blocks one man out of 6, 7 or 8 man defensive front, and he rarely matches up against a premium difference maker..."

Really?

How many players does an OT block? Seven or eight?

Part of what makes Brees so successful has been his o-lines' ability to keep him clean and step up into the pocket. Romo is consistently flushed out and under pressure; how many times did we see him try to spin his way out of pressure from a defender coming right up the gut?

There are plenty of talented defensive tackles in this game that need to be handled by interior linemen. Further, the success of a running attack starts and finishes with the ability of the interior linemen to get push. That's something this team has been sorely lacking unless you've enjoyed watching our RBs get touched and tripped up 2-yards behind the line of scrimmage on a regular basis.

Brees doesn't have any interior OL drafted in the first round. As much as NO is dependent on keeping Brees pocket & sight lanes clean, they have not drafted any interior OL with their first round picks.

Tackles make the big money because they block the opposing teams' best pass rushers.

Larry Allen is possibly the best or one of the best guards to ever play the game. How many games did he win? The best pass rushers can win games almost singlehandedly. You cannot say the same about the guard position.

The guard position is definitely important. Just not as important as a pass rusher, LT, QB or shut down corner. Heck even in a passing-RB by committee league, guards are still not more important or impactful than RB.

This is a deep guard draft. Cowboys do not have to get the best guard, especially if it means losing out on a top 3 pass rusher/corner, to improve their OL. Now if DeCastro could play center, I think this is a different argument.

 

[burmafrd]

Brees doesn't have any interior OL drafted in the first round. As much as NO is dependent on keeping Brees pocket & sight lanes clean, they have not drafted any interior OL with their first round picks.

Tackles make the big money because they block the opposing teams' best pass rushers.

Larry Allen is possibly the best or one of the best guards to ever play the game. How many games did he win? The best pass rushers can win games almost singlehandedly. You cannot say the same about the guard position.

The guard position is definitely important. Just not as important as a pass rusher, LT, QB or shut down corner. Heck even in a passing-RB by committee league, guards are still not more important or impactful than RB.

This is a deep guard draft. Cowboys do not have to get the best guard, especially if it means losing out on a top 3 pass rusher/corner, to improve their OL. Now if DeCastro could play center, I think this is a different argument.

best pass rushers win a game by themselves. Oh bs. Like sdogo said this is one of the dumbest threads around

 

[CCBoy]

best pass rushers win a game by themselves. Oh bs. Like sdogo said this is one of the dumbest threads around

One of the very best offensive guard prospects to come along in a decade....and now, he won't make a difference. Lol

 

[jnday]

:laugh2:

Brees doesn't have any interior OL drafted in the first round. As much as NO is dependent on keeping Brees pocket & sight lanes clean, they have not drafted any interior OL with their first round picks.

Tackles make the big money because they block the opposing teams' best pass rushers.

Larry Allen is possibly the best or one of the best guards to ever play the game. How many games did he win? The best pass rushers can win games almost singlehandedly. You cannot say the same about the guard position.

The guard position is definitely important. Just not as important as a pass rusher, LT, QB or shut down corner. Heck even in a passing-RB by committee league, guards are still not more important or impactful than RB.

This is a deep guard draft. Cowboys do not have to get the best guard, especially if it means losing out on a top 3 pass rusher/corner, to improve their OL. Now if DeCastro could play center, I think this is a different argument.

Well, it's a different argument . DeCastro can play center . By the way , a top three pass rusher/CB in this draft will be second round quality in other drafts . Why spend a 14 pick on a talent that could be had in the second .

 

[Doomsday101]

G is not a difference maker they just make sure the difference makers can make the plays be it the running back needing a hole to run through or the QB standing upright. Dallas has some very good skill players on offense but so much of the offense ends up having to make plays on broken plays because we allow so much penetration in our back field.

For the most part I would agree in most years a G would not even be considered a pick in the early part of the draft but there is always exceptions to the rule many scouts around the league think DeCastro is one of those exceptions.

I would love to have a left side of the line with Tyron Smith and DeCastro working side by side for years to come in my view that is how you build a quality offense

 

[Gaede]

I would also like to point out that a lot of the same people who say there's no pass rushers worth #14 this year are the same people who said JJ Watt wasn't special enough to deserve a Top 10 pick last year and didn't think Aldon Smith was that great coming out of Mizzou. Certain people seem to be incredibly bear-ish and skeptical on pass rushers leading up to the draft.

That is so true, and very strange. We all want a pass rush but are hesitant to actually try to improve it. The bashing of Watt last year was absolutely ridiculous. Same for Smith, though not as bad as Watt because he plays a position where people can see what he's doing. And alot of people strangely clamor for a big fat lazy man at DT, as if getting someone who provides no push will somehow improve everything. Why do we hate pass rushers here?

This team tries the same approach every offseason. Make the offense better for Romo and we'll win a superbowl. First he needs a pro bowl WR. Then he needs two. And an all-pro TE. The he needs a probowler at T, G, and C to be able to succeed. Oh, and an unstoppable running game. Nevermind the defense, just get rid of the bad players, coach up the rest and we'll win it all.

We should be focusing on the entire team, not just making it easier for Romo to win it all. And this team desperately needs a pass rush from someone other than Ware.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

The roulette analogy is apt because the gambler who says "I'm not gonna put my chip on 34 because its hit that number three times already in the past five spins..." is utilizing the same type of bunk rationale of someone who says "nobody has taken an OG higher than #17 (or whatever it was) in the past decade, so taking DeCastro at #14 in this draft is too high." The numbers on a roulette wheel have no relational value to one another, and neither does David DeCastro to any other previous gaurd that was available in past draft.

No they aren't. It's not even close to the same thing. Roulette numbers are totally random. This isn't.

And Decastro does have something in common with those guys -- he plays the same position. Unless you think he's so unique that no other guard before can compare to him, then why isn't his case comparable to what has happened in years past? There have always been good guard prospects, you know. When you step back and depersonalize it, most drafts are basically the same in a lot of ways. What makes Decastro such a revolutionary player that he would change all that?

The way some of you are talking, I don't see why he should get out of the top five.

 

[Doomsday101]

That is so true, and very strange. We all want a pass rush but are hesitant to actually try to improve it. The bashing of Watt last year was absolutely ridiculous. Same for Smith, though not as bad as Watt because he plays a position where people can see what he's doing. And alot of people strangely clamor for a big fat lazy man at DT, as if getting someone who provides no push will somehow improve everything. Why do we hate pass rushers here?

This team tries the same approach every offseason. Make the offense better for Romo and we'll win a superbowl. First he needs a pro bowl WR. Then he needs two. And an all-pro TE. The he needs a probowler at T, G, and C to be able to succeed. Oh, and an unstoppable running game. Nevermind the defense, just get rid of the bad players, coach up the rest and we'll win it all.

We should be focusing on the entire team, not just making it easier for Romo to win it all. And this team desperately needs a pass rush from someone other than Ware.

Dallas has used quite a few picks on defense as well in the last 3 drafts 17 players have been selected on defense including 1st rd picks like Jenkins and 2nd rd picks like Lee and Carter. Our offense consist of 2 players that are UDFA QB and an UDFA WR. Yes Dez was a 1st rd pick Witten was a 4th and Robinson was a FA pickup our RB does have a 1st rd pick in Felix and a 3rd rd pick in Murray. But is it not like Dallas has not selected defensive players.

OL which has been aging and falling apart for a while is now being addressed after being an after thought and this is some how bad? :laugh2:

 

[Gaede]

OL which has been aging and falling apart for a while is now being addressed after being an after thought and this is some how bad? :laugh2:

No, I absolutely think we need to fix the OL. It's just, adding one highly rated guard isn't going to be the missing ingredient people think. I feel like everyone is so focused on protecting Romo and wants to put all these resources into ensuring he doesn't fail--and it's just a bad strategy. Because what can happen is we overrate someone or fail to see their flaws. Or act as though that person is the be all, end all...Basically, a lot of fans are putting all their eggs in one basket. When in reality, a 1st round guard isn't going make that big a difference compared to a 2nd round or even 3rd round guard.

 

[Doomsday101]

No, I absolutely think we need to fix the OL. It's just, adding one highly rated guard isn't going to be the missing ingredient people think. I feel like everyone is so focused on protecting Romo and wants to put all these resources into ensuring he doesn't fail--and it's just a bad strategy. Because what can happen is we overrate someone or fail to see their flaws. Or act as though that person is the be all, end all...Basically, alot of fans are putting all their eggs in one basket.

To me it is not just protecting Romo it is getting the most out of our RB and our WR by opening holes by giving Romo a bit more time in the pocket to make the 2nd and 3rd reads instead of having to go on the run and find a targets.

It is about being able to get into short yardage and down by the goal line and have a legit chance of slamming the ball in, instead of having defense penatrating into out back field.

This is not about Romo it is about helping the offense be more consistent and being able to use very talented players to their fullest not running shoe string plays.

There is not just 1 thing or player who is going to turn everything around be it a pass rusher or a DB it is going to be a combonation of all 3. If my 1st pick is at 14 and I have a chance to pick up an elite player like DeCastro as opposed to a DL player who in most draft would not go at 14 then why settle for less then you can get top quality?

As I mentioned above in most draft I would agree you don't take a G at 14 there are always exception in life and football it is based on talent

 

[Oh_Canada]

That is so true, and very strange. We all want a pass rush but are hesitant to actually try to improve it. The bashing of Watt last year was absolutely ridiculous. Same for Smith, though not as bad as Watt because he plays a position where people can see what he's doing. And alot of people strangely clamor for a big fat lazy man at DT, as if getting someone who provides no push will somehow improve everything. Why do we hate pass rushers here?

This team tries the same approach every offseason. Make the offense better for Romo and we'll win a superbowl. First he needs a pro bowl WR. Then he needs two. And an all-pro TE. The he needs a probowler at T, G, and C to be able to succeed. Oh, and an unstoppable running game. Nevermind the defense, just get rid of the bad players, coach up the rest and we'll win it all.

We should be focusing on the entire team, not just making it easier for Romo to win it all. And this team desperately needs a pass rush from someone other than Ware.

Bingo! When is it time for our elite QB to step up and take a little responsibility? They drafted three olineman last year, paid a tackle huge money and will probably sign a center in FA this year. Meanwhile the pass rush sucks, the corners get torched and the team has two NFL caliber mlb's and one we are not even sure of.

Draft yet another guard at some point later in the draft, but this line will be much improved by adding a Wells or Connolly alone because Costa was a large part of the issues a year ago.


Lastly, everyone keeps saying there is no JPP in this draft, well if JPP was JPP in his draft year I can guarantee he would have been top three and not killing us two times a year.

 

[Gaede]

Lastly, everyone keeps saying there is no JPP in this draft, well if JPP was JPP in his draft year I can guarantee he would have been top three and not killing us two times a year.

That is such a good point. I remember the questions around JPP in his draft. Many people were calling him a bust in the making. I didn't even know much about him but I remember actually being happy that the Giants took him believing he would be a certain failure.