David DeCastro may not be worth a first round pick

[jterrell]

G is not a difference maker they just make sure the difference makers can make the plays be it the running back needing a hole to run through or the QB standing upright. Dallas has some very good skill players on offense but so much of the offense ends up having to make plays on broken plays because we allow so much penetration in our back field.

For the most part I would agree in most years a G would not even be considered a pick in the early part of the draft but there is always exceptions to the rule many scouts around the league think DeCastro is one of those exceptions.

I would love to have a left side of the line with Tyron Smith and DeCastro working side by side for years to come in my view that is how you build a quality offense

The issues here are basically that fans found rankings and saw decastro high on boards and heard nice things said about him. Then fake scouts posted early mock drafts with decastro high.... mass hysteria ensues.

Except I have been stating my position ALL ALONG that now guys like Goose and even Gil have backed the same position. The Cowboys can't take an OG at 14 with the holes they have elsewhere. PERIOD. ANY GUARD.

Even the same pundits the DeCastro fan boys have been hanging their hat on all along now say no way to Dallas at 14.

The difference between a good and JAG Guard is a small thing. The difference between an elite pass rusher and a JAG is HUGE. We know because we have Ware and Spencer in house. That is the difference in pass rushers from pick 11 to pick 26.

OG? 8 guards made the pro bowl in 2012.
Ben Grubbs, Baltimore ---- r1-29
Marshal Yanda, Baltimore ---- r3-86
Logan Mankins, New England ---- r1-32
Brandon Moore, N.Y. Jets ---- undrafted??
Brian Waters, New England ----undrafted??
Jahri Evans, New Orleans ---- r4-108
Carl Nicks, New Orleans ---- r5-164
Davin Joseph, Tampa Bay ---- r1-23

So the highest drafted pro bowler was at 23.
None of the guys drafted in the top 20: Iupati, Hutchinson made the Pro Bowl. that means they didn't finish in the top 10% at OG using a Pro Bowl as a metric.
A lot gets made of Iupati but he has never made a Pro Bowl. Quality but not elite OG. And the 49ers used pick 17 on him.

So now you gets a bunch of hard-headed people arguing their aren't elite pass rushers available... HUH??? Based upon what? Their storied scouting backgrounds? LOL. Nick Perry with 19 sacks in the Pac 12 the past two seasons and off the charts speed isn't elite? Coples isn't elite? Ingram with insane quickness and agility measurables? These guys don't compare to whom? The same early projections had JPP and Demarcus Ware as late first round picks. Both were fast risers based on the combine numbers and athleticism they displayed in drills.

BTW, neither Evans nor Nicks made Pro Bowls as rookies. All-Pro now but they had to develop. Dallas has r4 and r7 OGs on the roster who got experience last year. Can they be average OGs this year? Very, very possible.

 

[Doomsday101]

The issues here are basically that fans found rankings and saw decastro high on boards and heard nice things said about him. Then fake scouts posted early mock drafts with decastro high.... mass hysteria ensues.

Except I have been stating my position ALL ALONG that now guys like Goose and even Gil have backed the same position. The Cowboys can't take an OG at 14 with the holes they have elsewhere. PERIOD. ANY GUARD.

Even the same pundits the DeCastro fan boys have been hanging their hat on all along now say no way to Dallas at 14.

The difference between a good and JAG Guard is a small thing. The difference between an elite pass rusher and a JAG is HUGE. We know because we have Ware and Spencer in house. That is the difference in pass rushers from pick 11 to pick 26.

OG? 8 guards made the pro bowl in 2012.
Ben Grubbs, Baltimore ---- r1-29
Marshal Yanda, Baltimore ---- r3-86
Logan Mankins, New England ---- r1-32
Brandon Moore, N.Y. Jets ---- undrafted??
Brian Waters, New England ----undrafted??
Jahri Evans, New Orleans ---- r4-108
Carl Nicks, New Orleans ---- r5-164
Davin Joseph, Tampa Bay ---- r1-23

So the highest drafted pro bowler was at 23.
None of the guys drafted in the top 20: Iupati, Hutchinson made the Pro Bowl. that means they didn't finish in the top 10% at OG using a Pro Bowl as a metric.
A lot gets made of Iupati but he has never made a Pro Bowl. Quality but not elite OG. And the 49ers used pick 17 on him.

So now you gets a bunch of hard-headed people arguing their aren't elite pass rushers available... HUH??? Based upon what? Their storied scouting backgrounds? LOL. Nick Perry with 19 sacks in the Pac 12 the past two seasons and off the charts speed isn't elite? Coples isn't elite? Ingram with insane quickness and agility measurables? These guys don't compare to whom? The same early projections had JPP and Demarcus Ware as late first round picks. Both were fast risers based on the combine numbers and athleticism they displayed in drills.

BTW, neither Evans nor Nicks made Pro Bowls as rookies. All-Pro now but they had to develop. Dallas has r4 and r7 OGs on the roster who got experience last year. Can they be average OGs this year? Very, very possible.

Let me just say I would love to have him, I don't try to speak for others. I gave my reasons why I like him and I stick by that. He is also not the only potential 1st rd pick I like however when some say well you don't draft him that is their opinion and in most year I would agree not with DeCastro I don't base my views on publication I base it on watching the kid play and people like Mayock and others have only verified what I myself have seen. If you don't like him at 14 fine that is your call.

In the end I want top talented players and if that happens to be DeCastro then great because in the end it is about getting top quality players and DeCastro hands down is better than anyone at this position and not just in this draft

 

[Oh_Canada]

That is such a good point. I remember the questions around JPP in his draft. Many people were calling him a bust in the making. I didn't even know much about him but I remember actually being happy that the Giants took him believing he would be a certain failure.

As Terrell stated, JPP was drafted 16th overall because of his measurables, it had little to do with what he did in college and his measurables aren't as good on the whole as Mercilus, Poe, Ingram and Coples....so why again is there no pass rushers worth taking at #14?

 

[Doomsday101]

As Terrell stated, JPP was drafted 16th overall because of his measurables, it had little to do with what he did in college and his measurables aren't as good on the whole as Mercilus, Poe, Ingram and Coples....so why again is there no pass rushers worth taking at #14?

Coples likely gone before 14 as for the others I would not say they are not worthy of a 14 pick just overall not a very strong class when talking pass rushers. I have said before I like Ingram he would be a guy I would be interested in. Only issue I have is when some try to say you can go after these player but not DeCastro.

I have made myself clear in many draft threads of other players I would like at 14th from Kirkpatric to Ingram to DeCastro. Only reason DeCastro conversation seems to continue is because we have some who want to argue we should not take him.

 

[DFWJC]

As Terrell stated, JPP was drafted 16th overall because of his measurables, it had little to do with what he did in college and his measurables aren't as good on the whole as Mercilus, Poe, Ingram and Coples....so why again is there no pass rushers worth taking at #14?

I think front 7 talent is a strength early in this draft.

 

[jnday]

The issues here are basically that fans found rankings and saw decastro high on boards and heard nice things said about him. Then fake scouts posted early mock drafts with decastro high.... mass hysteria ensues.

Except I have been stating my position ALL ALONG that now guys like Goose and even Gil have backed the same position. The Cowboys can't take an OG at 14 with the holes they have elsewhere. PERIOD. ANY GUARD.

Even the same pundits the DeCastro fan boys have been hanging their hat on all along now say no way to Dallas at 14.

The difference between a good and JAG Guard is a small thing. The difference between an elite pass rusher and a JAG is HUGE. We know because we have Ware and Spencer in house. That is the difference in pass rushers from pick 11 to pick 26.

OG? 8 guards made the pro bowl in 2012.
Ben Grubbs, Baltimore ---- r1-29
Marshal Yanda, Baltimore ---- r3-86
Logan Mankins, New England ---- r1-32
Brandon Moore, N.Y. Jets ---- undrafted??
Brian Waters, New England ----undrafted??
Jahri Evans, New Orleans ---- r4-108
Carl Nicks, New Orleans ---- r5-164
Davin Joseph, Tampa Bay ---- r1-23

So the highest drafted pro bowler was at 23.
None of the guys drafted in the top 20: Iupati, Hutchinson made the Pro Bowl. that means they didn't finish in the top 10% at OG using a Pro Bowl as a metric.
A lot gets made of Iupati but he has never made a Pro Bowl. Quality but not elite OG. And the 49ers used pick 17 on him.

So now you gets a bunch of hard-headed people arguing their aren't elite pass rushers available... HUH??? Based upon what? Their storied scouting backgrounds? LOL. Nick Perry with 19 sacks in the Pac 12 the past two seasons and off the charts speed isn't elite? Coples isn't elite? Ingram with insane quickness and agility measurables? These guys don't compare to whom? The same early projections had JPP and Demarcus Ware as late first round picks. Both were fast risers based on the combine numbers and athleticism they displayed in drills.

BTW, neither Evans nor Nicks made Pro Bowls as rookies. All-Pro now but they had to develop. Dallas has r4 and r7 OGs on the roster who got experience last year. Can they be average OGs this year? Very, very possible.

Sure , we need to hope that some late round linemen can somehow be average . That has worked great in the past . There is not an elite pass rusher in this draft . If it was , I might see things differently . Every player that you named has big holes in their games and it is doubtfull that they would be an improvement over Spencer . I think Dallas wanting to tag Spencer , spreaks volumes on what they think of this group of pass rushers . I guess you would like to reach for one of these guys with the hope that they pan out .

 

[VACowboy]

I think people are tired of the Dallas FO putting little emphasis on the OL while they watch Romo run for his life every week. Now, it appears as if an elite OL at a position of need may fall into our laps, and it looks like a perfect fit. I tend to agree.

 

[jterrell]

I think people are tired of the Dallas FO putting little emphasis on the OL while they watch Romo run for his life every week. Now, it appears as if an elite OL at a position of need may fall into our laps, and it looks like a perfect fit. I tend to agree.

Stop repeating nonsensical group think.

Dallas has placed a strong emphasis on the OL for basically ever. The last big free agent signing this team made? Bigg Davis. This team has had more Pro Bowlers along the OL the past decade than any group on the field.

Romo has been running for his life because the VERY well paid and highly thought of OL got OLD and FAT. But Flozell, Gurode, Bigg, Columbo and even Kosier were ALL proven guys that were very well liked.

Dallas didn't often draft OL highly and missed when they tried but they did put their money to use along the OL and always have. They also have the best set of blocking TEs in all of football and invested high picks to get those guys.

Last year Dallas underwent a huge change in OL philosophy to a more nimble, lighter group. They ran more screens and traps. But they also were very young across the front and those players take time to learn and gel together.

It sucks that the team whiffed so badly on James Marteen and Robert Brewster but those were reasonably high draft picks along the OL recently.

And of course last year they used a premium pick to shore up the premium position along the OL. And no one suggests you can't take an LT at pick 9.

 

[jterrell]

Sure , we need to hope that some late round linemen can somehow be average . That has worked great in the past . There is not an elite pass rusher in this draft . If it was , I might see things differently . Every player that you named has big holes in their games and it is doubtfull that they would be an improvement over Spencer . I think Dallas wanting to tag Spencer , spreaks volumes on what they think of this group of pass rushers . I guess you would like to reach for one of these guys with the hope that they pan out .

The fact you actually wrote that tells me you need to go on ignore.

There will be elite pass rushers come out of this draft. There are guys that had elite production in college and other guys who have elite measurables.

Just because the peons haven't identified them yet hardly means they do not exist.

 

[realtick]

The issues here are basically that fans found rankings and saw decastro high on boards and heard nice things said about him. Then fake scouts posted early mock drafts with decastro high.... mass hysteria ensues.

Looool, I want everyone to know that you were the one reading into the "fake scouts" rankings and even initially used it to support your agenda, asking "who has DeCastro ranked in theTop 10?"

-Then, when you were shown example after example of "fake scouts/scouting websites" that had DeCastro ranked in their Top 10.

-Then you moved the goalposts and said "but who has him ranked in the Top 5?"

-Now you're saying these ranking are bunk.

-Now you're hanging your hat on what Gil Brandt says because it suits your agenda. Because we all know Gil Brandt is the ultimate reference point and sole authority on the draft.

 

[visionary]

The issues here are basically that fans found rankings and saw decastro high on boards and heard nice things said about him. Then fake scouts posted early mock drafts with decastro high.... mass hysteria ensues.

Except I have been stating my position ALL ALONG that now guys like Goose and even Gil have backed the same position. The Cowboys can't take an OG at 14 with the holes they have elsewhere. PERIOD. ANY GUARD.

Even the same pundits the DeCastro fan boys have been hanging their hat on all along now say no way to Dallas at 14.

The difference between a good and JAG Guard is a small thing. The difference between an elite pass rusher and a JAG is HUGE. We know because we have Ware and Spencer in house. That is the difference in pass rushers from pick 11 to pick 26.

OG? 8 guards made the pro bowl in 2012.
Ben Grubbs, Baltimore ---- r1-29
Marshal Yanda, Baltimore ---- r3-86
Logan Mankins, New England ---- r1-32
Brandon Moore, N.Y. Jets ---- undrafted??
Brian Waters, New England ----undrafted??
Jahri Evans, New Orleans ---- r4-108
Carl Nicks, New Orleans ---- r5-164
Davin Joseph, Tampa Bay ---- r1-23

So the highest drafted pro bowler was at 23.
None of the guys drafted in the top 20: Iupati, Hutchinson made the Pro Bowl. that means they didn't finish in the top 10% at OG using a Pro Bowl as a metric.
A lot gets made of Iupati but he has never made a Pro Bowl. Quality but not elite OG. And the 49ers used pick 17 on him.

So now you gets a bunch of hard-headed people arguing their aren't elite pass rushers available... HUH??? Based upon what? Their storied scouting backgrounds? LOL. Nick Perry with 19 sacks in the Pac 12 the past two seasons and off the charts speed isn't elite? Coples isn't elite? Ingram with insane quickness and agility measurables? These guys don't compare to whom? The same early projections had JPP and Demarcus Ware as late first round picks. Both were fast risers based on the combine numbers and athleticism they displayed in drills.

BTW, neither Evans nor Nicks made Pro Bowls as rookies. All-Pro now but they had to develop. Dallas has r4 and r7 OGs on the roster who got experience last year. Can they be average OGs this year? Very, very possible.

good post with a lot of valid points

i think dallas has some options at 14

take front 7 pressure player
draft down
take OL


take CB

 

[Oh_Canada]

Coples likely gone before 14 as for the others I would not say they are not worthy of a 14 pick just overall not a very strong class when talking pass rushers. I have said before I like Ingram he would be a guy I would be interested in. Only issue I have is when some try to say you can go after these player but not DeCastro.

I have made myself clear in many draft threads of other players I would like at 14th from Kirkpatric to Ingram to DeCastro. Only reason DeCastro conversation seems to continue is because we have some who want to argue we should not take him.

I got you-but it's not so much about DeCastro for me, I like the guy at #24 maybe.
My problem is the team has generally ignored the pass rush since drafting Spencer while the rest of the league is emphasizing the pass rush. The team needs bigs that can get to the QB plain and simple, not to mention a possible replacment for Spencer. Arkin, Nagy are young developing guards, sign a center and draft another guard (Zeitler) in the third rd and continue to allow the line to grow. I really think major improvment can be accomplished by replacing Costa and the maturity of the rest of the group and not by using a high pick on a guard.

 

[Doomsday101]

I got you-but it's not so much about DeCastro for me, I like the guy at #24 maybe.
My problem is the team has generally ignored the pass rush since drafting Spencer while the rest of the league is emphasizing the pass rush. The team needs bigs that can get to the QB plain and simple, not to mention a possible replacment for Spencer. Arkin, Nagy are young developing guards, sign a center and draft another guard (Zeitler) in the third rd and continue to allow the line to grow. I really think major improvment can be accomplished by replacing Costa and the maturity of the rest of the group and not by using a high pick on a guard.

He is not lasting to 24 I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that.

I don't disagree that we need to upgrade the pass rush I don't disagree that we need to upgrade in the secondary. I also know we need to upgrade the OL and DeCastro is the best of the bunch

I'm not saying there are no other option all I'm saying is when someone tells me he is a bad pick at 14 then they don't know what they are talking about. They use some unwritten rule they have as the end all be all well there have always been exceptions when it comes to certain player in the draft and team often base it on the overall talent of the player. All I'm seeing is people who do not want DeCastro basing it all on position

 

[cowboysooner]

At this time last year no one was predicting 9 sacks for Kerrigan, 6 sacks in half a season for Brooks Reed, 15 sacks in spot duty for Aldon Smith or huge pressure from a 3-4 de from Watt. Few were expecting 14 sacks from Von Miller. The thing those guys have in common is they were taken in the first 40 picks and all but one in the top 16.

JPP was not expected to go at 16 based on 2 different JUCO's and 6 games at South Florida. Pressure players go early and often.

 

[realtick]

No they aren't. It's not even close to the same thing. Roulette numbers are totally random. This isn't.

And Decastro does have something in common with those guys -- he plays the same position. Unless you think he's so unique that no other guard before can compare to him, then why isn't his case comparable to what has happened in years past? There have always been good guard prospects, you know. When you step back and depersonalize it, most drafts are basically the same in a lot of ways. What makes Decastro such a revolutionary player that he would change all that?

The way some of you are talking, I don't see why he should get out of the top five.

Yeah, it does.

Numbers on a roulette wheel have no relation to one another.

Explain to me how David DeCastro has any relationship to some other OG taken in the first round five or six years ago?

Using your logic and knowing Andrew Luck plays the same position as JaMarcus Russell, should teams avoid taking QBs in the first round?

David DeCastro's value is independent of any success or failure that other OGs have had. And yes, I do think DeCastro is a unique talent at the OG position. I don't just think he's a good gaurd. That's the point.

Beyond that, you can't simply just look at DeCastro and compare him to another OG taken in the past and say "well, why weren't they taken that high then?" Each draft has an infinite number of variables such as individual team needs, the relative talent of the other prospects at other positions, the depth at the position, et cetera.

"The way some of you are talking, I don't see why he should get out of the top five."

What's laughable is the way some of you are talking, you act as if we do have a Top Five pick. Here's news.....we don't even have a Top 10 pick.

We have the #14 pick, lol.

You act as if we would be passing on RGIII or Andrew Luck to draft DeCastro. Tell me, who is the can't miss prospect we're potentially passing up on? Melvin Ingram, Michael Brockers, lol?

 

[InmanRoshi]

I think people are tired of the Dallas FO putting little emphasis on the OL while they watch Romo run for his life every week.

???

The Cowboys just used a Top 10 pick on an offensive linemen, and they now have Doug Free as one of the highest paid right tackles tackles. In recent years they've also made Leonard Davis one of the NFL's highest paid guards in league history and Andre Gurode one of the game's highest paid centers.

No one can claim the Cowboys haven't allocated a tremendous amount of resources into the OL in recent years. You can argue that they haven't been effective at it, but you can't say they haven't poured about as much resources into it as any team in the NFL.

I would argue one thing the Cowboys haven't done enough of is draft offensive lineman with mid round picks, develop them in house, ride out the bumps along the road, let them get bigger and stronger and develop chemistry and cohesion with their teammates in the system and let them play. Everyone envies the Saints offensive guards. I couldn't agree more. Let's follow their lead on how they drafted and developed Carl Nicks and Jahri Evans.

 

[Gaede]

I would argue one thing the Cowboys haven't done enough of is draft offensive lineman with mid round picks, develop them in house, ride out the bumps along the road, let them get bigger and stronger and develop chemistry and cohesion with their teammates in the system and let them play. Everyone envies the Saints offensive guards. I couldn't agree more. Let's follow their lead on how they drafted and developed Carl Nicks and Jahri Evans.

Giants, Packers do things this way as well.

 

[burmafrd]

???

The Cowboys just used a Top 10 pick on an offensive linemen, and they now have Doug Free as one of the highest paid right tackles tackles. In recent years they've also made Leonard Davis one of the NFL's highest paid guards in league history and Andre Gurode one of the game's highest paid centers.

No one can claim the Cowboys haven't allocated a tremendous amount of resources into the OL in recent years. You can argue that they haven't been effective at it, but you can't say they haven't poured about as much resources into it as any team in the NFL.

I would argue one thing the Cowboys haven't done enough of is draft offensive lineman with mid round picks, develop them in house, ride out the bumps along the road, let them get bigger and stronger and develop chemistry and cohesion with their teammates in the system and let them play. Everyone envies the Saints offensive guards. I couldn't agree more. Let's follow their lead on how they drafted and developed Carl Nicks and Jahri Evans.

BS. TOTAL BS.

We have done NOTHING but try and draft low and develope. We got ONE SINGLE STARTER OUT OF THE PROCESS.

Why cannot you recognize CLEAR FAILURE?

Yet you say keep doing the same thing.

Einstein said that one definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

 

[burmafrd]

Only an IDIOT passes up a player by consensus considered to be the best prospect at his position in years.

If we had the top pick NO one would really debate the vaule of Luck.


Well not as celebrated but DeCastro is a rare prospect.


ANd when you add our recent record with drafting low OL.
OUR DESPERATE NEED to improve the interior O Line.

Then passing up DeCastro if he is there is just PLAIN DUMB.

No real elite Pass Rusher or CB will be at #14. CLEARLY no prospect as highly rated at his position then DeCastro is at his.

ONLY A MORON would pass him up.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Tony Romo just spun out of the tackle of an onrushing DT that was just olay'd by one of our OGs, to say "hi."

Tony Romo just had a 103 QB rating in a season where almost all of his critical skill position players missed extended time at some point. What more ceiling is left to attain there? Improve to a 105 QB rating? That's the reason we went 9-7? Tony Romo threw for a 140+ QB Rating in a potential NFC East clinching game against the Giants. Guess what .. we still didn't win. Hmmm ... I wonder why?