David DeCastro may not be worth a first round pick

[cowboysooner]

Yeah, it does.

David DeCastro's value is independent of any success or failure that other OGs have had. And yes, I do think DeCastro is a unique talent at the OG position. I don't just think he's a good gaurd. That's the point.

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If DeCastro was the 346lbs Carl Nicks that could move dt's at the goal line I might agree. He is a great player with a low floor but does not have a Nicks or Larry Allen ceiling. Arkin, Nagy, and Lissmore are the only young non-starters on this roster who have a chance to develop into quality starter. I don't want to sign a free agent in Nick or Grubbs then spend first rounder on a guard in a draft that has good ones 3 or 4 rounds deep. I would like one more quality guy to compete with those 2 and find a way to get Costa out of the lineup.

We need to replace Costa, James (hopefully carter), Spears/Coleman, and Newman. We have to snap the ball to Romo, diversify our passrush and not give 12 yard cushions on 3rd and 7.

 

[burmafrd]

Tony Romo just had a 103 QB rating in a season where almost all of his critical skill position players missed extended time at some point. What more ceiling is left to attain there? Improve to a 105 QB rating? That's the reason we went 9-7? Tony Romo threw for a 140+ QB Rating in a potential NFC East clinching game against the Giants. Guess what .. we still didn't win. Hmmm ... I wonder why?

I guess you ignored the broken rib, punctured lung, damaged hand he got from the pass rush that pummled him all year.

 

[InmanRoshi]

BS. TOTAL BS.

Actually, no. Everything I said was factually correct. We did just spend a Top 10 pick on an offensive lineman last year. We did just make Doug Free one of highest paid right tackles in the NFL. We did give Leonard Davis a record breaking contract for a guard. We did make Andre Gurode one of the highest paid centers in the league.

To say we "did nothing" but draft and use low level talent is, in fact, total BS though.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I guess you ignored the broken rib, punctured lung, damaged hand he got from the pass rush that pummled him all year.

I didn't ignore it. It was already factored and valued into his existing 100+ QB Rating.

 

[Gaede]

BS. TOTAL BS.

We have done NOTHING but try and draft low and develope. We got ONE SINGLE STARTER OUT OF THE PROCESS.

.

Did you even read his post before replying?!

All of those things are true. We have tried. Very hard. Much money and resources have been invested into the OL.

 

[realtick]

Tony Romo just had a 103 QB rating in a season where almost all of his critical skill position players missed extended time at some point. What more ceiling is left to attain there? Improve to a 105 QB rating? That's the reason we went 9-7? Tony Romo threw for a 140+ QB Rating in a potential NFC East clinching game against the Giants. Guess what .. we still didn't win. Hmmm ... I wonder why?

Hey guys!

You heard it here first, our offensive line isn't a problem!

As we all know, QB rating is the best indicator of determining whether an offensive line is protecting well. QB rating doesn't have much to do with TD and INT totals and the better decision making Romo incorporated for most of this season.....no, that's not it.

I mean, I guess we should praise the offensive line for giving up six sacks and a ton of pressures in the Week 17 win-and-you're-in game against the Giants. After all, Romo sported a 106 QB rating that game.

 

[Doomsday101]

Funny teams are willing to spend a boat load of money to retain or get a top OG but it is some how taboo to draft one at 14?

Alrighty then. :laugh2:

 

[realtick]

Funny teams are willing to spend a boat load of money to retain or get a top OG but it is some how taboo to draft one at 14?

Alrighty then. :laugh2:

EXACTLY!

It's freakin' bonkers, lol.

You can get a great OG at #14 at a fraction of the cost of what it would require to sign Nicks. Not to mention a younger player.

 

[Doomsday101]

EXACTLY!

It's freakin' bonkers, lol.

You can get a great OG at #14 at a fraction of the cost of what it would require to sign Nicks. Not to mention a younger player.

No kidding Davin Joseph at Tampa signed a 7 year 52 mill contract and with guys like Nicks and Grubs coming up for contract you can bet they will be as big if not bigger but talk about a G at 14 who is considered a top player in the draft and people freak out. :laugh2:

 

[InmanRoshi]

Hey guys!

You heard it here first, our offensive line isn't a problem!

Actually, what you heard is that our offensive line isn't nearly as much of a problem as our utterly horrendous pass defense.


Thus the reason why the Cowboys passing offense can put up a 140+ QB Rating and put 34 points up on the board in a potential NFC East Divison winning game and still manage to lose.

 

[visionary]

Funny teams are willing to spend a boat load of money to retain or get a top OG but it is some how taboo to draft one at 14?

Alrighty then. :laugh2:

this is a great point

 

[cowboysooner]

Take a look how the best quick athletic Oline in football is built. The Texans drafted their LT Duane Brown from VT in the first round at 26 when everyone said it was a horrible overdraft. The signed their least effective o lineman in Wade Smith of the Jeff Ireland Miami scrap heap. He was originally a 3rd round pick from Memphis. They picked up the now highest rated center in football as an anonymous free agent signing from Denver. He was an original 6th round pick from Miami. Their right guard is Mike Brisel who is tough and a great player. He was an undrafted free agent from Colorado State. They drafted their pro bowl right tackle Eric Winston from Miami in the 3rd round. He was an oversized tight end in college.

All of their players will be going into their 5th -9th years. They are 27-32. They play with cohesion and discipline. Not one of them was a splash free agent and they have not been paid big dollars so they are motivated. Only the Brown is a high pick. Not one of them is considered the best at their position. JAGs that play together for a few years become better than the sum of their parts.

 

[Gaede]

JAGs that play together for a few years become better than the sum of their parts.

Well said.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Funny teams are willing to spend a boat load of money to retain or get a top OG but it is some how taboo to draft one at 14?

That's because there was no forfeiture of a Top 15 pick involved in the cost of retaining them. If there were, they would let them walk because they would want to spend that Top 15 pick on potential LT, CB, QB or pass rusher instead.

 

[InmanRoshi]

All of their players will be going into their 5th -9th years. They are 27-32. They play with cohesion and discipline. Not one of them was a splash free agent and they have not been paid big dollars so they are motivated. Only the Brown is a high pick. Not one of them is considered the best at their position. JAGs that play together for a few years become better than the sum of their parts.

And that's also exactly how we built our dominant offensive lines of the 90s.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Yeah, it does.

Numbers on a roulette wheel have no relation to one another.

Explain to me how David DeCastro has any relationship to some other OG taken in the first round five or six years ago?

Using your logic and knowing Andrew Luck plays the same position as JaMarcus Russell, should teams avoid taking QBs in the first round?

David DeCastro's value is independent of any success or failure that other OGs have had. And yes, I do think DeCastro is a unique talent at the OG position. I don't just think he's a good gaurd. That's the point.

But I'm not claiming he's going to be some kind of bust like in your Russell example. I've never said, "Chris Naeole was clearly not worth his draft slot, so therefore Decastro won't be, either." That would be in line with what you're claiming.

I'm assuming Decastro will be a very good player. Maybe not the next LA like some are claiming, but I'm assuming he'll be a Iupati kind of guard. But there's still a question of what that player is worth. We have years and years of evidence that, as a rule, NFL GM's don't take Gs in the top 15 picks, and I'm claiming there's likely a good reason for it. I guess others believe that they're smarter than the tens and hundreds of NFL GMs who are being paid millions of dollars to make crucial decisions for their teams, but personally, I doubt that.

Or, like I guess you're claiming, he's so special that he's worth more than all these other guys who have come before him. Frankly, I doubt he's that rare a player.

And I've never even said that I would hate the pick. Of course it depends on who else is available at the time, like it always does. Maybe the draft will turn out in a way that all the players we love are gone when we pick and he'll truly be the best player on the board, but we don't know that right now. That's one reason I have a problem with so many people screaming that this guy has to be the pick and if we don't take him we're idiots (or don't care about Romo's well-being, or whatever). That almost sounds like Jerry getting locked in on a player so far ahead of time. It just doesn't make sense.

Maybe we should think about why Jimmy Johnson never wanted to take OL in the first round. Was he that misguided, or could there have been some sound thinking behind that belief?

 

[Doomsday101]

That's because there was no forfeiture of a Top 15 pick involved in the cost of retaining them. If there were, they would let them walk because they would want to spend that Top 15 pick on potential LT, CB, QB or pass rusher.

You mean something that even the best in the NFL says is a crap shoot as in the NFL draft? Yet not many negitives on DeCastro.

As I have said in most years I would agree but to me it is more about the individual player than the position. Of course last time I said that I got the smart ars remark about kickers and long snappers.

Fact is if I can walk out with a player most feel is a sure thing then I don't see it as a mistake.

 

[realtick]

Actually, what you heard is that our offensive line isn't nearly as much of a problem as our utterly horrendous pass defense.


Thus the reason why the Cowboys passing offense can put up a 140+ QB Rating and put 34 points up on the board in a potential NFC East Divison winning game and still manage to lose.

I think two things can be equally true: the interior of our o-line needs help and our secondary needs an overhaul.

What player do you potentially see available at #14 that would be a better prospect (relatively speaking) than DeCastro?

I like Janoris Jenkins a lot, but his off-the-field issues make me cautious. When contrasted with the ability, "safeness," readiness, and need that DeCastro would fill, I think it's an easy pick.

 

[Phrozen Phil]

The debate here centers on whether to improve the pass rush, take DeCastro (becase he would represent the best value, provided he was available), or consider the BPA (CB, 5Tech DT, ILB). My belief is that we can improve the capacity of the D by keeping them off the field a little longer.

Beating the teams in our division may depend on being able to convert more third and short situations and punching in the 2nd or 3rd and goal situations. The Giants and the Eagles were able to beat our OL and punish Tony and stuff our RB's too many times.

I will agree that we need to improve our secondary, which, in turn will help get coverage sacks, and getting more pressure opposite Ware is important. If we lose Spencer, then we have a problem, because I'm not sure that there's a player in this draft that is measurably better.

We may not be able to fix everything at once, but keeping Romo upright for more of the game can make a real difference. If DeCastro is gone by our pick, then, c'est la vie. We will find someone to make our team better and we can still find some beef in subsequent rounds to help Tony sleep better at night.

 

[InmanRoshi]

What player do you potentially see available at #14 that would be a better prospect (relatively speaking) than DeCastro?

That's kinda the point. If we rated every player from 1 to 10 based on their ability at their particular position, DeCastro might be an 8 or a 9 guard. I'm not arguing that. I still think a 7 pass rusher has more value. Particularly when the pass rushers left in the 2nd round might be 4 or 5s, while the guards in the 2nd round might be 6 or 7s.