Derrick Henry vs Ezekiel Elliott

What declined?

Zeke has not been a homerun hitter since his rookie season. He even criticized himself a year or two ago about his poor decision making at the second level. He's becoming a bruiser/short yardage back, to the point freakin' Pollard is needing more playing time because he can hit the outside quicker than Zeke can. Zeke has no second gear at this point.
 
https://airyards.com/gamespeed.html

Check out his performance from 2016 and compare to 2017. See how he blew it away in 2016 compared to league average vs. him coming back down to earth in 2017?
But he had a better year in 2017. And 2017, though they held him out a game he had just as much production and the most TDS he's ever had. Most receiving TDS too. I'm just not seeing this huge decline. There's a huge difference in the O line as well. This season he's not getting the carries. He is what he is.
 
Zeke has not been a homerun hitter since his rookie season. He even criticized himself a year or two ago about his poor decision making at the second level. He's becoming a bruiser/short yardage back, to the point freakin' Pollard is needing more playing time because he can hit the outside quicker than Zeke can. Zeke has no second gear at this point.
Hmm, he had a great year last year. Most TDs all around. One less game.
Pollard? No. He may break a run here and there, but he's not needing more playing time.

People have this weird expectation that a RB is supposed to look identical 4+ years later. He was never banging out long runs. The team is clearly different around him.
 
But he had a better year in 2017. And 2017, though they held him out a game he had just as much production and the most TDS he's ever had. Most receiving TDS too. I'm just not seeing this huge decline. There's a huge difference in the O line as well. This season he's not getting the carries. He is what he is.
He sure didn't. His average yards per carry declined from 5.1 down to 4.1. That is Joseph Randle 2015 territory. That is when the argument started that Zeke lost a step (and Zeke is fat) and that game speed chart confirms he slowed from 2016 to 2017. He was much more inefficient in 2017 than he was as a rookie. What he did was get enough carries to have a high per game rushing total.
 
He sure didn't. His average yards per carry declined from 5.1 down to 4.1. That is Joseph Randle 2015 territory. That is when the argument started that Zeke lost a step (and Zeke is fat) and that game speed chart confirms he slowed from 2016 to 2017. He was much more inefficient in 2017 than he was as a rookie. What he did was get enough carries to have a high per game rushing total.
Randle? Lol, come on man.
 
Hmm, he had a great year last year. Most TDs all around. One less game.
Pollard? No. He may break a run here and there, but he's not needing more playing time.

People have this weird expectation that a RB is supposed to look identical 4+ years later. He was never banging out long runs. The team is clearly different around him.

Zeke did not have a "Great year" last year, he was pretty low on the list of 20+ yard runs. He is a volume guy, he's not getting that this year and he's looking pretty average.

Also Pollard IS getting more playing time lol He was averaging 2.5 carries through the first 4 weeks, he is now averaging around 7.
 
Zeke did not have a "Great year" last year, he was pretty low on the list of 20+ yard runs. He is a volume guy, he's not getting that this year and he's looking pretty average.
Volume? No. His attempts went down from 2016 where he had the most in his career. If all you care about are +20 or +40 yards, then I guess but that's not really surprising. At any rate the RBs and line show the real pattern.
 
Hmm, he had a great year last year. Most TDs all around. One less game.
Pollard? No. He may break a run here and there, but he's not needing more playing time.

People have this weird expectation that a RB is supposed to look identical 4+ years later. He was never banging out long runs. The team is clearly different around him.

LOL he was never banging out long runs? His rookie season he had 14 20+ yard runs, and 3 40+ yard runs. He hasn't had a 40+ yard run since 2018. He has ONE 20+ yard run on 181 carries this year, Pollard has 4 20+ yard runs and 1 40+ yard run on 81 carries. Pollard is the more productive back.
 
Volume? No. His attempts went down from 2016 where he had the most in his career. If all you care about are +20 or +40 yards, then I guess but that's not really surprising. At any rate the RBs and line show the real pattern.

LOL they were "down", a whole 21 carries. He had 322 carries in 2016, and 301 last season. Year before that he had 304. Yeah...massive drop off.

Then why isn't it impacting Pollard, if it's the line? You can't explain that because you're simply wrong.
 
Randle? Lol, come on man.
I'm serious man.

Zeke averaged 4.06 yards per carry which rounds up to 4.1 ypc. Zeke had 7 rushing TDs and 2 receiving TDs on 268 touches. TD every 29.77 touches.
Randle in 2015 averaged 4.14 yards per carry which rounds down to 4.1 ypc. He had 4 rushing TD and 0 receiving TDs on 86 touches. TD every 21.5 touches.

Now, those numbers are pretty similar yet one RB we consider to be so sorry that he had to be let go and the other we think of as a generational running back.

If we gave Randle the ball 25 times a game at 4.14 yards a pop, he's getting over 100. The difference is we kept feeding Zeke in 2017 but we replaced Randle in 2015.
 
jesus they have a stat for everything lol. never seen that before
The NFL has it and let the guy use it. I wish he continued to track it. He did an entire write up on NFL speed to include weather conditions, turf, quarter, etc. This was a byproduct of that research. Found it pretty interesting.
 
LOL they were "down", a whole 21 carries. He had 322 carries in 2016, and 301 last season. Year before that he had 304. Yeah...massive drop off.

Then why isn't it impacting Pollard, if it's the line? You can't explain that because you're simply wrong.
You're the one that said he's "volume guy" even though they went down.
Pollard had a couple nice runs, but he's not getting the carries and isn't as good in the middle would be my guess. Wonder why he isn't starting and lighting the World on fire!
 
I'm serious man.

Zeke averaged 4.06 yards per carry which rounds up to 4.1 ypc. Zeke had 7 rushing TDs and 2 receiving TDs on 268 touches. TD every 29.77 touches.
Randle in 2015 averaged 4.14 yards per carry which rounds down to 4.1 ypc. He had 4 rushing TD and 0 receiving TDs on 86 touches. TD every 21.5 touches.

Now, those numbers are pretty similar yet one RB we consider to be so sorry that he had to be let go and the other we think of as a generational running back.

If we gave Randle the ball 25 times a game at 4.14 yards a pop, he's getting over 100. The difference is we kept feeding Zeke in 2017 but we replaced Randle in 2015.
You're assuming more carries would result in the same average. I would guess the average goes down, but that's just me.
 
The NFL has it and let the guy use it. I wish he continued to track it. He did an entire write up on NFL speed to include weather conditions, turf, quarter, etc. This was a byproduct of that research. Found it pretty interesting.
It is pretty impressive actually. Seems like a TON of work.
 
You're assuming more carries would result in the same average. I would guess the average goes down, but that's just me.
Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't. But 4.1 ypc was unacceptable for Randle, yet acceptable for Zeke. And if you look at Zeke's first 76 carries in 2017 (the same amount Randle had in 2015), Zeke would have even been below the 4.1 ypc because he had a slow start.
 
Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't. But 4.1 ypc was unacceptable for Randle, yet acceptable for Zeke. And if you look at Zeke's first 76 carries in 2017 (the same amount Randle had in 2015), Zeke would have even been below the 4.1 ypc because he had a slow start.
I see what you're saying now, you mean the fans bashing on Randle. The whole "meat on the bone" garbage.
 
Same old argument "it's all o-line, other backs could have done the same".

Fact is there WEREN'T other backs running the ball for the Cowboys from 2016 on. Can't know if others could have done as well, can't go back in time and replay the seasons.

Tired of the 20-20 hindsight and "what ifs". Is it also a fact that Zeke isn't doing what he did, stat-wise, both good and bad, as he was in 2016 or 2018? Sure, the numbers alone don't lie, if nothing else. But again looking at the facts, this is the first year he's not been very good to great. In 2017 he only played 10 games due to Goodell's penalty, but he was averaging 98.3 ypc and 0.7 tds per game, extrapolate that over 16 games and you have over 1,500 yards and about 11 tds, right in line with his other years. Number one in the league in 2016 and 2018. His ypc before this year were 5.1, 4.1, 4.7 and 4.5. Not too shabby. Emmit had a 5.3, 4.7 and 4.6 his best 3 years, essentially the same. He had a 3.7 ypc year in 1996, as bad as Zeke is doing this year he's still 0.2 ypc above that. Backs are allowed to have off seasons, IT HAPPENS.

And before I get inundated with the "how dare you say Zeke is as good as Emmitt", I'm not saying that. There's more to it than stats, Emmitt had other things that made him great, he also had 15 seasons to prove it. Zeke's only in his 5th.

So this year is 3.9. That's bad. So I get it, running backs aren't allowed to have an off year, whatever the reason. And if you get a fat contract, you aren't allowed to have an off year, whatever the reason.

Well that's not life folks, Zeke is a person, on a team. Things don't always turn out peachy keen like we want them to. It's not totally up to Zeke to do well, there are lots of other factors.
No loyalty here to the players, have a bad year and it's off the trash heap with you! We paid you a lot, so you have to be great, regardless of anything else, right?
All I'm saying is Zeke's still young, he has time to return to form. Maybe he is "off" because of having the Covid, in which case people here can't allow for that and give him a chance to get back to greatness next year?

Yes we're all upset (well at least most of us) at this season, and the prior 26 seasons. I, and many others, are used to SB successes. It's hard to swallow this season. I watch the various sports shows about the NFL on television, Dallas is seldom mentioned, and if they are it's usually in a bad light. Have to watch endless slobbering over Mahomes and the Steelers, among others.
But taking out our frustrations on one of our own players, who's done great things for the team, is shameful. If he was doing drugs, or getting suspended for peds or such, he deserves to be blasted. But that's not the case..

Criticize his fumbles, his coming out of games so much and so forth, that's a lot on him personally, but even at that, he's trying his best. We all have shortcomings at times, how would you like your boss blasting because you missed two weeks with illness and got behind in your work and are having a hard time catching up? Saying you should be fired because this year you're not up to expectations?

Long post but referring to a line in the movie Red October "Give the man a chance"...

If there is merit that Zeke’s body is worn out from the excessive pounding over the years, and wear and tear has taken a toll, …then it’s time to move on from him and invest in trying to get another play making RB, imo
Wear and tear backs with his running style don’t get back their previous burst. And I’m not dishing out that kind of high dollar for a workhouse back that I could try to get far less expensive.

If I’m paying a RB 13-14 million per year, he’s gotta present more than just 4 yrd power runs and one yard goal line runs. He’s gotta present me far more splash runs and plays in the same sense as Henry, Chubb, Barkley, Cook, etc.

When has a beaten and worn down RB on the decline ever sprung back to his previous big splash form ?
BTW, with the boss firing you for illness or health conditions. At least under Texas right to fire, some companies actually do that. It comes with the badge.

o_O
 
I see what you're saying now, you mean the fans bashing on Randle. The whole "meat on the bone" garbage.
I don't think Randle was as bad as people claim he was, but he also was never supposed to have the same upside potential as Zeke. He also played with Dez (#1 receiver) only being healthy for 1 quarter before going out in the 2nd quarter for dehydration and then breaking his foot in the 3rd quarter. TWill was our main receiving threat and then Romo went down in the 3rd quarter of game 2. Now we had Weeden and Twill expected to take pressure off our running game. I've been the only one that I've seen ever bring these issues up about our 2015 running game (which also impacted DMC). 2015 is generally thought of as an example of why Zeke was needed to be drafted. So, when he performs at that level after being drafted to avoid that type of running game, I can't understand why people weren't holding Zeke to the same standards.

For me, I judged Zeke based upon his 2016 year and could see he wasn't as explosive in 2017 as the year before. Up until I found that link i provided earlier, I could only use lack of big plays and his continued absence from the fastest ball carrier list as the objective data. Now I found that site that compares the 2 years, I think it should be clear that Zeke slowed from his rookie year to his 2nd year. He was much closer to average. It sparked a lot of debates when it was brought up in 2017.
 
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